Was God once a man?

[Zakuska]

God was once a man.

Jesus Christ was God veiled in the flesh.

God was once a man, God is not a man.

My issue with the Follet sermon is teaching God was a man before becoming a God.

[Hemidakota]

Again, for those who believe the Father was a mortal man before becoming our God, please read Moroni 8:18 and Mormon 9:9-10. While I do not accept the BoM as the Word of God, I do read it along with the Doctrines and Covenants because there is wisdom in both. In this case, the wisdom is that God has always been as He is today.

Morini 8:18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.

Do you understand what Mormon is talking about in this chapter to his son Moroni? Reread it again before this verse and after.

[Hemidakota]

Brent, the Mormon 9:9-10, same problem. Reread it to figure what is going on in the background and why Mormon is using this type of language.

You will find Moroni 10:19 saying the same thing.

[Maureen]

Hmm?

Ex 15

3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Since Christ became a Man and was God the whole while what precludes his father from doing the same thing?

Your... "Issue" does't make sense.

(The Song of Triumph)

Then Moses and the Israelites sang this song to the Lord: "I will sing to the Lord for he has triumphed gloriously, the horse and its rider he has thrown into the sea. The Lord is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation. This is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him. The Lord is a man of war, the Lord is his name. The chariots of Pharaoh and his army he has thrown into the sea, and his chosen officers were drowned in the Red Sea. The depths have covered over them, they went down to the bottom like a stone. Your right hand, O Lord, was majestic in power, your right hand, O Lord, shattered the enemy. And in the greatness of your majesty you have overthrown those who rise up against you. You sent forth your wrath; it consumed them like stubble. And by the blast of your nostrils the waters were piled up, the waters stood upright like a heap, and the deep waters were congealed in the heart of the sea. (Exodus 15:1-

In looking at the context of the statement it is describing Yahweh as being warrior, someone who can defeat his enemies. He is not literally a physical man who is fighting a war;

[ave maria]

I still think one of the easiest ways to clarify this for Latter-day Saints is to have you substitute the word "Godhead" when you hear trinitarians use the word "God."

And, for an imperfect analogy, I'll use the First Presidency of the LDS Church.

The difference is that no one says three and then insists that the number three becomes one until it comes to this. The First Prez example is indicative of this blip in logic. At no time do LDS ever say the First Prez becomes one entity. They are three distinct and separate individuals who work together. If you believe these two situations to be analogous you have brought a lot of your LDS belief into your view of the Trinity.

However, this attempt to emphasize the "three" in the trinitarian belief is what I was referring to as I have observed this tendency becoming more prevalent since my early days on the internet. I rarely see the ubiquitous toothpaste and water/ice analogy...and only occasionally the egg.

Three distinct individuals comprise that First Presidency, but one doesn't suggest that the First Presidency is not an entity.

This is the correct analogy but not for Trinitarianism. Have you ever heard LDS say are one substance/essence? The First Prez does accurately represent subordination, however....a well attested early Christian belief before Constantine replaced it with the more comfortable philosophically described entity.

Let's say, for the sake of illustration, that each of the members of the First Presidency was fully "First President" (I am not asserting this is the case, but using this for the point).

[Restformationist]

Maureen and Ave Maria, well said!

[Zakuska]

Hmm?

Ex 15

3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Since Christ became a Man and was God the whole while what precludes his father from doing the same thing?

Your... "Issue" does't make sense.

(The Song of Triumph)

Then Moses and the Israelites sang this song to the Lord: "I will sing to the Lord for he has triumphed gloriously, the horse and its rider he has thrown into the sea. The Lord is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation. This is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him. The Lord is a man of war, the Lord is his name. The chariots of Pharaoh and his army he has thrown into the sea, and his chosen officers were drowned in the Red Sea. The depths have covered over them, they went down to the bottom like a stone. Your right hand, O Lord, was majestic in power, your right hand, O Lord, shattered the enemy. And in the greatness of your majesty you have overthrown those who rise up against you. You sent forth your wrath; it consumed them like stubble. And by the blast of your nostrils the waters were piled up, the waters stood upright like a heap, and the deep waters were congealed in the heart of the sea. (Exodus 15:1-

In looking at the context of the statement it is describing Yahweh as being warrior, someone who can defeat his enemies. He is not literally a physical man who is fighting a war;

[Zakuska]

A couple is an entity. A string trio is an entity. The Supreme Court is an entity. Congress is an entity. An army is an entity. A space shuttle flight crew is an entity. A partnership is an entity. A corporation is an entity. An orchestra is an entity. A cheerleading squad is an entity. A football team is an entity. A Church is an entity.

It seems to me like Picard and the Enterpirse resonated and Killed a Crystaline entity.

http://www.neutralzone.de/database/SpaceLi...llineEntity.htm

I wonder if there is a reason it looks like a tree?

I think a big "DUH" is in order here!

Dictionary.com

Entity

Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit: Persons and corporations are equivalent entities under the law.

The fact of existence; being.

The existence of something considered apart from its properties.

Now If God is a being that makes him an entity in the singular as well.

[ave maria]

Now If God is a being that makes him an entity in the singular as well.

Yes.

That's an even bigger "duh."

[Zakuska]

The Biggest Duh. Is that you dont see the contradiction that creates for trinitarians.

[alpha]

My view...One and only God...No, God was never a "man" as we are here on earth(before Jesus).

[alpha]

Depends on what God your discussing.

My view...One and only God...No, God was never a "man" as we are here on earth(before Jesus).

[ave maria]

The Biggest Duh. Is that you dont see the contradiction that creates for trinitarians.

It creates no contradiction for trinitarians, only for non-trinitarians who incorrectly characterize or misunderstand the trinity.

[Tchild2]

According to the logic of Mormon doctrine of eternal progression, trying to understand God the father as some type of being other than a being that progressed just as we will is...it is illogical.

If God has a body (per the first vision) where did he get it from?

[alpha]

According to the logic of Mormon doctrine of eternal progression, trying to understand God the father as some type of being other than a being that progressed just as we will is...it is illogical.

If God has a body (per the first vision) where did he get it from?

Exactly...

Just what I wanted to know as well...

Alpha

[juliann]

According to the logic of Mormon doctrine of eternal progression, trying to understand God the father as some type of being other than a being that progressed just as we will is...it is illogical.

If God has a body (per the first vision) where did he get it from?

If Christ has a body where did he get it from? Although I think this kind of speculation will eventually do little more than drive one mad, logic actually works better with progressive gods. All of the "isms" break down real quick under a conventional system. However...I don't see the point one way or another.

[juliann]

Verse Genesis Ch 1:27 reads like this..."So God created man in his own image, in the image of God, created he him; male and female created he them"

Alpha

Only conservative scholars (and trust me...they are not taken seriously by the rest) would read Elohim as singular, Alpha. The standard translation for it is gods. The only way you can uphold a singular in the first stages of the OT is to stay away from the Hebrew it was written in.

[juliann]

What "spirit" means is another matter.

Julian,

I must object!!! That was berry punny!

I hate it when I use a good pun and don't even know it.

[juliann]

It's exasperating to witness the number of errors in your writing.

And here we go. More empty rhetoric.

Your failure to distinguish between "entity" and "being" is apparent.

Well, that might be because dictionaries use the word "being" to define "entity"

It's tempting to respond, "Duh" here.

No kidding.

There's a colloquial expression for bovine manure that would be tempting to insert here.

Charming. Now if only you were so tempted to insert documentation instead of arrogance and disdain.

Citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church is the most authoritative source one can post regarding Catholic teaching and belief.

I'm sure it is. But this is a board about Mormonism. When my area of study is early Christianity, I really am not interested in your personal belief system...no matter how wonderful it is.

Your more frequent complaint is that I don't give supportive sources at all.

[Tchild2]

If Christ has a body where did he get it from?  Although I think this kind of speculation will eventually do little more than drive one mad, logic actually works better with progressive gods. All of the "isms" break down real quick under a conventional system. However...I don't see the point one way or another.

Juliann. Are you saying that you do not believe that God was once as man, or that it is speculative to take a position either way?

I am saying that according to Mormon doctrine (eternal progression), and the highest teachings and ordinances of Mormonism (temple endowment and marriage) that everything points to God the father having tabernacled in a body of flesh and blood at some time just as we do today (according to LDS belief).

[ave maria]

Your failure to distinguish between "entity" and "being" is apparent.

Well, that might be because dictionaries use the word "being" to define "entity"

So, therefore, you assume they are synonymous?

Main Entry: en

[Hemidakota]

Alpha - there is no choice here or that I am wrong. Prophet Joseph Smith proves it out by prayer. Other members, saints, or prophets, have done it since the time of Adam.

Though, what I found amazing is the lack of faith that some BAs have in their own god. Look, use the same approach as with Joseph Smith and hopefully, if you have the faith, you will receive an answer.

[alpha]

Verse Genesis Ch 1:27 reads like this..."So God created man in his own image, in the image of God, created he him; male and female created he them"

Alpha

Only conservative scholars (and trust me...they are not taken seriously by the rest) would read Elohim as singular, Alpha. The standard translation for it is gods. The only way you can uphold a singular in the first stages of the OT is to stay away from the Hebrew it was written in.

false Julian

Did you know that in the early translations in Hebrew that the plurality of a word just signifies "POWER" and the divinity of what is being described?

And who are you to say that the conservative are not taken seriously?

Alpha

[juliann]

Juliann. Are you saying that you do not believe that God was once as man, or that it is speculative to take a position either way?

No, I am saying that I don't think we have any information to speculate on the progression of his father and his father and his......and I find it rather pointless.

[juliann]

Constantine converted to Christianity. Or does your mindset not allow for converts?

When it gets to the point you have to fight over dictionary defininitions, the point is made. And you just made another. Constantine provided the key word in the trinitarian construction....and he was not a member. May I dictate your belief system? Thanks! Maybe I will join up eventually!

I take it there will be no response other than something about bovines...

I address the subject with great regularity.  One cannot be Catholic and not address it, any more than one can be LDS and not address Joseph Smith or the origins of Mormonism

.

And this is what hangs you up....early Christianity is just as important to LDS as it is to your religion. That is why we are rather well versed in it and do not find your apologetic websites of anymore interest than you find ours.