Popular Post MustardSeed Posted February 12 Popular Post Posted February 12 (edited) I have a friend who consistently tries to. “ correct” my thinking without invitation regarding Grace and works. It’s pretty annoying honestly because it’s out of context of our relationship. I love her dearly outside of these interactions. We live on opposite ends of the country. Last week we got together for a short vacation. I decided I would buy a necklace with a cross on it. I wore it every day. The old tired discussion never came up. My husband was shocked to see me wearing the necklace. After the vacation, he was surprised to see I was still wearing it. I don’t know when I will take it off probably when it turns green because it was only nine dollars lol- but I would like to share what I feel when I imagine other people see me wearing it. I would also like to share what I feel while wearing it when nobody sees me wearing it. 1. Knowing people can see it has me feeling in kinship with those who worship the savior. I feel part of a club. I feel included. In my mind, the club is. “ I acknowledge that Jesus Christ matters in my life.”. That’s as far as I go with that commonality and it feels good. I like it. 2. Wearing it under my clothing out of sight, I see it when I’m changing my clothes and I feel it on my neck and it makes me think about Jesus. That feels good. I don’t think I’ve had that tactical experience with anything other than the CTR ring. (And yes, I have worn garments since I was 21 so that makes what. 30 some odd years of wearing garments. For whatever reason wearing the garment does not make me think more about Jesus. When I don’t wear the garment, I don’t feel any further or closer to Jesus. I wear it to be obedient and for integrity reasons) Edited February 12 by MustardSeed 13
Popular Post Tony uk Posted February 12 Popular Post Posted February 12 3 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: I have a friend who consistently tries to. “ correct” my thinking without invitation regarding Grace and works. It’s pretty annoying honestly because it’s out of context of our relationship. I love her dearly outside of these interactions. We live on opposite ends of the country. Last week we got together for a short vacation. I decided I would buy a necklace with a cross on it. I wore it every day. The old tired discussion never came up. My husband was shocked to see me wearing the necklace. After the vacation, he was surprised to see I was still wearing it. I don’t know when I will take it off probably when it turns green because it was only nine dollars lol- but I would like to share what I feel when I imagine other people see me wearing it. I would also like to share what I feel while wearing it when nobody sees me wearing it. 1. Knowing people can see it has me feeling in kinship with those who worship the savior. I feel part of a club. I feel included. In my mind, the club is. “ I acknowledge that Jesus Christ matters in my life.”. That’s as far as I go with that commonality and it feels good. I like it. 2. Wearing it under my clothing out of sight, I see it when I’m changing my clothes and I feel it on my neck and it makes me think about Jesus. That feels good. I don’t think I’ve had that tactical experience with anything other than the CTR ring. (And yes, I have worn garments since I was 21 so that makes what. 30 some odd years of wearing garments. For whatever reason wearing the garment does not make me think more about Jesus. When I don’t wear the garment, I don’t feel any further or closer to Jesus. I wear it to be obedient and for integrity reasons) For what it is worth. I also wear a crucifix on a chain which is usually covered by my clothing. Also I have a very small crucifix on the lapel of my jacket. Not to show off or be over the top. Just a small token of my own identity as a follower of Jesus. 8
Popular Post SeekingUnderstanding Posted February 12 Popular Post Posted February 12 I’m confused by this non-political thread. Am I on the right board? 13
InCognitus Posted February 12 Posted February 12 11 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: I’m confused by this non-political thread. Am I on the right board? You really think the cross of Christ has never been used for political purposes? 2
Popular Post Doctor Steuss Posted February 12 Popular Post Posted February 12 (edited) My son almost always has a Hebrew Chai necklace on, and Hamsa bracelet. For a while, I wore a Vegvisir bracelet whenever I was feeling "lost." It's awesome what a little bit of jewelry can do to help remind and/or comfort us. Raised LDS, I always had a bit of religious/cultural envy for robust iconography. Edited February 12 by Doctor Steuss 5
Popular Post BlueDreams Posted February 12 Popular Post Posted February 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, MustardSeed said: I have a friend who consistently tries to. “ correct” my thinking without invitation regarding Grace and works. It’s pretty annoying honestly because it’s out of context of our relationship. I love her dearly outside of these interactions. We live on opposite ends of the country. Last week we got together for a short vacation. I decided I would buy a necklace with a cross on it. I wore it every day. The old tired discussion never came up. My husband was shocked to see me wearing the necklace. After the vacation, he was surprised to see I was still wearing it. I don’t know when I will take it off probably when it turns green because it was only nine dollars lol- but I would like to share what I feel when I imagine other people see me wearing it. I would also like to share what I feel while wearing it when nobody sees me wearing it. 1. Knowing people can see it has me feeling in kinship with those who worship the savior. I feel part of a club. I feel included. In my mind, the club is. “ I acknowledge that Jesus Christ matters in my life.”. That’s as far as I go with that commonality and it feels good. I like it. 2. Wearing it under my clothing out of sight, I see it when I’m changing my clothes and I feel it on my neck and it makes me think about Jesus. That feels good. I don’t think I’ve had that tactical experience with anything other than the CTR ring. (And yes, I have worn garments since I was 21 so that makes what. 30 some odd years of wearing garments. For whatever reason wearing the garment does not make me think more about Jesus. When I don’t wear the garment, I don’t feel any further or closer to Jesus. I wear it to be obedient and for integrity reasons) I used to wear a cross more regularly. It made me think of my grandmother who gave it to me. I would think of going to midnight mass, her quiet ways of showing faith, and her sweetness in always remembering me on my bday and xmas even as a step-granddaughter. I don't wear it anymore because I reused the chord to use it to hold the Incan Cross with a teal circle and red circle on each side. I guess the symbolism of switching out a Christian symbol for a "pagan" one probably wouldn't read well to a lot of people. But for me when I wear it, I feel close to my girls that I lost. I touch it and feel them near. A tactile hug for girls I won't hug here. The other cross still sits on my bathroom stand for me to smile at. When I was younger I used to wear a small glass pear. That was the necklace, ironically, that reminded me the most of Jesus/ the love of God. My garments remind me of my relationship with God, faith, and community. It reminds me most of sacred journeys we go on life and what we're given to face them. Symbols are interesting. The personal meaning we attribute to them will quite often supersede the social meaning we're given for them. With luv, BD Edited February 12 by BlueDreams 7
bluebell Posted February 12 Posted February 12 27 minutes ago, BlueDreams said: Symbols are interesting. The personal meaning we attribute to them will quite often supersede the social meaning we're given for them. With luv, BD I think this is my trouble when considering common religious symbols like cross and crucifixes. I never could really put it into words but your post helped me to finally figure out my aversion. I have no personal positive associations with crosses, but a lot of negative ones. When I see them, I struggle not to assume negative things (that have nothing to do with Christ). I envy people who don't have that problem, because I like the idea of those kinds of symbols. 4
Tacenda Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: I’m confused by this non-political thread. Am I on the right board? 🤣 1
Pyreaux Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) 8 hours ago, Tony uk said: For what it is worth. I also wear a crucifix on a chain which is usually covered by my clothing. Also I have a very small crucifix on the lapel of my jacket. Not to show off or be over the top. Just a small token of my own identity as a follower of Jesus. For context, for much of its history, Latter-day Saints has not used the cross as a religious symbol on churches, in homes, or as jewelry. If asked, Latter-day Saints have historically explained we preferred to focus on Christ’s Resurrection rather than His Crucifixion. Offense-focused apologetic members often added more upon that, calling it mildly morbid and even slightly idolatrous. In truth, I think in the early years, the Church sought to differentiate itself from Catholicism and Protestantism. Avoiding the cross icon, they set themselves apart from mainstream Christianity. Some leaders did have concerns that crosses and crucifixes, especially when used in prayer or as objects of reverence, was inappropriate, though this attitude was more of a cultural stance rather than a doctrine. In the modern era, the strong distinction has softened. While Church leaders today don’t encourage crosses, they no longer say anything that might sound like they condemn them either. Some Latter-day Saints now will wear cross jewelry, and it's less likely to be seen as controversial, though having a full shrine built around a cross at home might still be a bit taboo. As I see it, the Church has broken out of its isolationist faze into a global expansion which means it interacts more with cultures where crosses are central to Christian identity, and that has led us to have a more tolerant and accepting attitude. To take our place, Jehovah’s Witnesses actively condemn the cross, as a point of doctrine, they argue that Jesus was executed on a "stake" and viewing the cross as a pagan or apostate symbol. This contrasts with the LDS approach, which has historically been about personal preference and trying to be distinct rather than an outright rejection. While older Latter-day Saints may have long enjoyed poking at other traditions, modern attitudes tend to be more respectful. Hearing my JW peers carryon in such a condemning manner, as a modern Latter-day Saint, is now cringy to my ear. Today, many Latter-day Saints see the cross as meaningful to many individuals, not something to oppose. While the Church still does not use crosses in its buildings or logos, individual members are less likely to criticize anyone who does. Thus, the LDS position on the cross has evolved. It has acquired a broader appreciation of Christian traditions, as its not always worth it to always be contrarians. Edited February 13 by Pyreaux 1
Popular Post Calm Posted February 13 Popular Post Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Pyreaux said: Offense-focused apologetic members often added more upon that, calling it mildly morbid and even slightly idolatrous. More than mildly at times with the “would you hang an electric chair around your neck?” Imo. Plus that totally ignores all the taking up your cross imagery in the Bible and the fact that for many Christians an empty cross is a symbol of resurrection and not crucifixion and a beautiful one at that. 9
SeekingUnderstanding Posted February 13 Posted February 13 12 minutes ago, Pyreaux said: In truth, I think in the early years, the Church sought to differentiate itself from Catholicism and Protestantism. I’m not sure that’s true. See here: https://www.deseret.com/2009/9/10/20339414/mormons-and-the-cross/ and here: 2
MustardSeed Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 8 minutes ago, Calm said: More than mildly at times with the “would you hang an electric chair around your neck?” Imo. Plus that totally ignores all the taking up your cross imagery in the Bible and the fact that for many Christians an empty cross is a symbol of resurrection and not crucifixion and a beautiful one at that. Why didn’t I ever consider that. So interesting! I know I would not wear a cross with Jesus on the symbol. But I do think crosses are beautiful and they symbolize to me Christ focused life 3
Rain Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) 4 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I have a friend who consistently tries to. “ correct” my thinking without invitation regarding Grace and works. It’s pretty annoying honestly because it’s out of context of our relationship. I love her dearly outside of these interactions. We live on opposite ends of the country. Last week we got together for a short vacation. I decided I would buy a necklace with a cross on it. I wore it every day. The old tired discussion never came up. My husband was shocked to see me wearing the necklace. After the vacation, he was surprised to see I was still wearing it. I don’t know when I will take it off probably when it turns green because it was only nine dollars lol- but I would like to share what I feel when I imagine other people see me wearing it. I would also like to share what I feel while wearing it when nobody sees me wearing it. 1. Knowing people can see it has me feeling in kinship with those who worship the savior. I feel part of a club. I feel included. In my mind, the club is. “ I acknowledge that Jesus Christ matters in my life.”. That’s as far as I go with that commonality and it feels good. I like it. 2. Wearing it under my clothing out of sight, I see it when I’m changing my clothes and I feel it on my neck and it makes me think about Jesus. That feels good. I don’t think I’ve had that tactical experience with anything other than the CTR ring. (And yes, I have worn garments since I was 21 so that makes what. 30 some odd years of wearing garments. For whatever reason wearing the garment does not make me think more about Jesus. When I don’t wear the garment, I don’t feel any further or closer to Jesus. I wear it to be obedient and for integrity reasons) I love that it means something to you and how it makes you feel. I have a little envy/longing over that. I'm glad it means something to you. Symbols have just never meant much to me. I don't know why. Sometimes I think a symbol might mean something to me and then it just doesn't. Edited February 13 by Rain 3
Calm Posted February 13 Posted February 13 15 minutes ago, Rain said: I love that it means something to you and how it makes you feel. I have a little envy/longing over that. I'm glad it means something to you. Symbols have just never meant much to me. I don't know why. Sometimes you I think a symbol might mean something to me and then it just doesn't. For me I want them to mean more, but it feels imposed rather than instinctual which is what I want. I do have somethings that I treat as symbols, but they aren’t really, they are sentimental…it’s the circumstances around me finding them (or getting them as a gift) that makes them meaningful to me. Iow, they don’t make me think of what I want them to remind me of, they remind me of when I got them and the pleasure they give me. 4
Dario_M Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) If you don't like your friend then end the friendship i would say. But that's just my simple opinion. And for the rest i don't really see the problem of wearing a nekless of a cross. I'm probably going to do the same in the future. Edited February 13 by Dario_M
MustardSeed Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, Dario_M said: If you don't like your friend then end the friendship i would say. But that's just my simple opinion. And for the rest i don't really see the problem of wearing a nekless of a cross. I'm probably going to so the same in the future. I didn’t say I didn’t like her, in fact I said I love her. 1
sunstoned Posted February 13 Posted February 13 I wear a cross that I got at an antique store in London. It's from the 8th century and was probably part of a priest's vestments. 4
Dario_M Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, MustardSeed said: I didn’t say I didn’t like her, in fact I said I love her. You also said that she was anoying to you because she was correcting your thinking. I once had a friend who (over time) turned out to be that way. The friendship didn't last long from that point on. To bad really because he was from the LDS community (like me) and in the beginnig i really liked the guy. But yeah..people change. Edited February 13 by Dario_M
teddyaware Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) 16 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I have a friend who consistently tries to. “ correct” my thinking without invitation regarding Grace and works. It’s pretty annoying honestly because it’s out of context of our relationship. I love her dearly outside of these interactions. We live on opposite ends of the country. Last week we got together for a short vacation. I decided I would buy a necklace with a cross on it. I wore it every day. The old tired discussion never came up. My husband was shocked to see me wearing the necklace. After the vacation, he was surprised to see I was still wearing it. I don’t know when I will take it off probably when it turns green because it was only nine dollars lol- but I would like to share what I feel when I imagine other people see me wearing it. I would also like to share what I feel while wearing it when nobody sees me wearing it. 1. Knowing people can see it has me feeling in kinship with those who worship the savior. I feel part of a club. I feel included. In my mind, the club is. “ I acknowledge that Jesus Christ matters in my life.”. That’s as far as I go with that commonality and it feels good. I like it. 2. Wearing it under my clothing out of sight, I see it when I’m changing my clothes and I feel it on my neck and it makes me think about Jesus. That feels good. I don’t think I’ve had that tactical experience with anything other than the CTR ring. (And yes, I have worn garments since I was 21 so that makes what. 30 some odd years of wearing garments. For whatever reason wearing the garment does not make me think more about Jesus. When I don’t wear the garment, I don’t feel any further or closer to Jesus. I wear it to be obedient and for integrity reasons) The temple garment represents the crucified body of Christ, which means that wearing a cross in addition to the garment is redundant. I find it supremely ironic that many Latter-Day Saints will tell you how terrible it is how anybody could think it’s acceptable to exhibit a device of torture and execution as an item of jewelry, meanwhile they’re telling you this while they’re wearing an article of clothing that represents Christ’s tortured, crucified body!). If you doubt me on this reflect on the fact that the entire endowment, from start to finish, is focused like a laser on the crucifixion of Christ. There is no entry into the celestial room. by passing through the veil (the veil being a symbolic representation of Christ’s crucified body), without first making offerings of sacred symbols of Christ’s crucifixion. In addition, there can be no sealing of eternal marriages and families without the offering of sacred symbols of Christ’s crucifixion that are performed atop an altar, the altar being a symbolic representation of Calvary’s hill. Whether they realize it or not, the Latter-Day Saints place more salvific importance on the symbolism of Chris’s crucifixion than does any other church! But due to its sacred nature it’s all kept behind closed doors. The garment is enough. Edited February 13 by teddyaware 2
Popular Post bluebell Posted February 13 Popular Post Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, teddyaware said: The garment is enough. Who gets to say what's enough for someone though? Quote I find it supremely ironic that many Latter-Day Saints will tell you how terrible it is how anybody could think it’s acceptable to exhibit a device of torture and execution as an item of jewelry, meanwhile they’re telling you this while they’re wearing an article of clothing that represents Christ’s tortured, crucified body!). That's a good point. It is hypocritical of latter-day saints to talk down to people who wear crosses when they believe in something similar, just not in the form of jewelry. Edited February 13 by bluebell 7
Popular Post MustardSeed Posted February 13 Author Popular Post Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, teddyaware said: The temple garment represents the crucified body of Christ, which means that wearing a cross in addition to the garment is redundant. I find it supremely ironic that many Latter-Day Saints will tell you how terrible it is how anybody could think it’s acceptable to exhibit a device of torture and execution as an item of jewelry, meanwhile they’re telling you this while they’re wearing an article of clothing that represents Christ’s tortured, crucified body!). If you doubt me on this reflect on the fact that the entire endowment, from start to finish, is focused like a laser on the crucifixion of Christ. There is no entry into the celestial room. by passing through the veil (the veil being a symbolic representation of Christ’s crucified body), without first making offerings of sacred symbols of Christ’s crucifixion. In addition, there can be no sealing of eternal marriages and families without the offering of sacred symbols of Christ’s crucifixion that are performed atop an altar, the altar being a symbolic representation of Calvary’s hill. Whether they realize it or not, the Latter-Day Saints place more salvific importance on the symbolism of Chris’s crucifixion than does any other church! But due to its sacred nature it’s all kept behind closed doors. The garment is en I wear a diamond ring. I also wear a wedding band. And sometimes I wear a bracelet husband gave me. Redundant? Or symbolizing different things to me? If the church required me to wear a necklace, I might be annoyed by that. Incidentally If the church allowed me to wear any symbolic reminder instead of all that fabric, I would be all about it. Sometimes symbolism is very personal. Nobody gets to decide for me what something means to me. Even the church. The garment means something different to me than the church wants it to mean. Oh well! I still wear them. Not that that’s any of your business. Edited February 13 by MustardSeed 5
Senator Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, MustardSeed said: Incidentally If the church allowed me to wear any symbolic reminder instead of all that fabric, I would be all about it. Sometimes symbolism is very personal. Nobody gets to decide for me what something means to me. Even the church. The garment means something different to me than the church wants it to mean. Oh well! I still wear them. Not that that’s any of your business. I feel the same. I struggle to see the strong salvific symbolism in the garment that Teddy has found/ (imagined?) Over the past few years we have seen un uptick in church leadership addressing the significance of wearing the garment, obviously due to the rising trend of members taking a more casual relationship to them. They introduced new(new to me anyways, I'll accept that I may not have been paying attention) symbolism, such that putting on the garment is literally putting on Christ. It struck me as a stretch. I won't deny those who wish to see it that way, but I also would ask the freedom to not. BTW I recently bought my wife a cross necklace. I was a little hesitant, as I wasn't sure of how she would feel about it. But she loved it! Edited February 13 by Senator 2
Doctor Steuss Posted February 13 Posted February 13 14 hours ago, sunstoned said: I wear a cross that I got at an antique store in London. It's from the 8th century and was probably part of a priest's vestments. That's so cool. If you are able to (and wouldn't mind), would you be willing to share a picture of it?
Anakin7 Posted February 14 Posted February 14 (edited) From my LDS, Saint, Christian, Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian archives - https://johnhiltoniii.com/considering-the-cross/ Edited February 14 by Anakin7
Rain Posted February 14 Posted February 14 (edited) 11 hours ago, Senator said: I feel the same. I struggle to see the strong salvific symbolism in the garment that Teddy has found/ (imagined?) Over the past few years we have seen un uptick in church leadership addressing the significance of wearing the garment, obviously due to the rising trend of members taking a more casual relationship to them. They introduced new(new to me anyways, I'll accept that I may not have been paying attention) symbolism, such that putting on the garment is literally putting on Christ. It struck me as a stretch. I saw that fireside? (I can't remember what kind of meeting it was) The idea is creepy to me. I get that it is special to some, and if they want to think of it that way, I am ok with it, but don't try to push me to consider that for myself. The fact that this idea can be a spiritual thing to some and creepy to me shows that symbols are highly personal, and it's ok if we don't connect with the symbols others connect. We can still appreciate the meaning those symbols are for others, like Mustard with her cross. 11 hours ago, Senator said: I won't deny those who wish to see it that way, but I also would ask the freedom to not. BTW I recently bought my wife a cross necklace. I was a little hesitant, as I wasn't sure of how she would feel about it. But she loved it! Edited February 14 by Rain 4
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