temple sealing

[blackstrap]

To whom can a temple president delligate the authority to perform a temple sealing ?

[Duncan]

The only people who can seal is those holding the sealing power and so that is who the temple president would have doing it. If a person wants to seal someone outside the temple district they have to get permission to do so.

[blackstrap]

What level of authority receives the sealing power ? Is that a special calling/ordinance or can any bishop or Stake President do a sealing by simply getting permission from a temple President.? How a bout can any MP holder do it ?

[Duncan]

37 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

What level of authority receives the sealing power ? Is that a special calling/ordinance or can any bishop or Stake President do a sealing by simply getting permission from a temple President.? How a bout can any MP holder do it ?

if you didn't receive the sealing power from someone who has it then you can't seal anyone. It's more likely the sealers in a temple were already bishops or Stake Presidents, Mission Presidents, it's rare though that someone is a Bishop after receiving the sealing power. I can think of three people who had that situation. So, here the first temple presidency received the sealing power from the temple president in another temple district but were set apart for their callings by an Area 70 (who didn't have the sealing power)

[Dario_M]

What is actually the purpose of getting a temple sealing? What do you gain with it? I thought that the endownment was the endstep of the whole proces.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

What is actually the purpose of getting a temple sealing? What do you gain with it? I thought that the endownment was the endstep of the whole proces.

It makes a marriage, the family an eternal relationship. 

Most people imagine it as similar to family connections in mortality, only without the negative aspects and ramped up the good stuff.  Your mortal father and mother remain your parents eternally, you remain the parents of your children.  

This makes no sense to me because those relationships apply to mortality, who was born first where in heaven, if we are all preexistent, such a hierarchy doesn’t make sense especially if say a child was better at providing spiritual guidance than a father or mother.  Why would mortal birth order make the less spiritually developed the leader of the family by default?

I see it as adopting us into God’s family.  I have no clue how mortal relationships tie in except that there is a relationship.  The marriage relationship makes more sense since the two are in an equal/balanced partnership.  That works for me and is what I see will be likely for all eternal family relationships based on mortal relationships (as opposed to our relationship with God and Heavenly Mother, which is an eternal one).

I don’t think we really know what a sealing does except that God thinks it’s something we will want to participate in.  We won’t need a marriage or family contract to protect rights and establish legal responsibilities, after all.

Edited November 28 by Calm

[Calm]

An official POV:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/2024/11/15-what-is-a-temple-sealing?lang=eng#title1

[Dario_M]

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

It makes a marriage, the family an eternal relationship. 

O yeah because that was something really important in the LDS community i can remember. Being forever with your family. For eternity. 

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

Most people imagine it as similar to family connections in mortality, only without the negative aspects and ramped up the good stuff.  Your mortal father and mother remain your parents eternally, you remain the parents of your children.  

It's a beautiful idea. The idea of being forever with your family. 💙

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

This makes no sense to me because those relationships apply to mortality, who was born first where in heaven, if we are all preexistent, such a hierarchy doesn’t make sense especially if say a child was better at predicting providing spiritual guidance than a father or mother.  Why would mortal birth order make the less spiritually developed the leader of the family by default?

Yeah i get that. 

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

I see it as adopting us into God’s family.  I have no clue how mortal relationships tie in except that there is a relationship.  The marriage relationship makes more sense since the two are in an equal/balanced partnership.  That works for me and is what I see will be likely for all eternal family relationships based on mortal relationships (as opposed to our relationship with God and Heavenly Mother, which is an eternal one).

Well... i will not be forever with my family clearly. Even in this life on earth we aren't even together anymore. Let alone that we will be together when our times come and we go to Gods kingdom. 

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t think we really know what a sealing does except that God thinks it’s something we will want to participate in.  We won’t need a marriage or family contract to protect rights and establish legal responsibilities, after all.

Well...a temple sealing must be complicated then. 

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Well... i will not be forever with my family clearly. Even in this life on earth we aren't even together anymore. Let alone that we will be together when our times come and we go to Gods kingdom. 

The possibility for your family still exists in our belief if it is something that is desired by family members and they are willing to repent and accept the blessings of Christ.  

Temple work is available for both the living and the dead as is repentance and baptism. After death we get taught the principles of the gospel we didn’t get a chance to learn in mortality and can choose to repent and accept Christ’s Atonement. Baptism and the other ordinances will then be performed by those who are living for those who are dead, so that everyone will have a chance for a forever family.

Edited November 28 by Calm

[Dario_M]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

The possibility for your family still exists in our belief if it is something that is desired by family members and they are willing to repent and accept the blessings of Christ.  

I don't think my family wants to be with me. Not in this life or any other life. 

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Temple work is available for both the living and the dead as is repentance and baptism.

But what is the purpose of getting sealed to the temple? I thought the the endownment was the last ritual one must go through and after that comes nothing. What kind of powers does somebody earn by getting sealed to the temple? 

3 hours ago, Calm said:

After death we get taught the principles of the gospel we didn’t get a chance to learn in mortality and can choose to repent and accept Christ’s Atonement. Baptism and the other ordinances will then be performed by those who are living for those who are dead, so that everyone will have a chance for a forever family.

My family can't do the other ordinances for me after my death because nobody in my family is a member of the LDS community. And i'm prety sure that they will never be Mormon ....ever. But even if they would be Mormon they still don't wanna do it for my poor soul.🎭 They don't like me. So like always i need to do all those ordinances alone if i want to go that far into my Mormon journy. Like i need to do everything alone in life. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Dario_M said:

don't think my family wants to be with me. Not in this life or any other life. 

At this time perhaps. People change, especially when they commit to living the gospel and let God more fully into their lives.  I assume death puts a very different slant on things as well.  Maybe not immediately, but for sure over time.

I think it’s pretty arrogant (arrogance can be about thinking one is too difficult for God to help as well as believing one is so talented or smart one doesn’t need anyone’s help, not even God’s).  

I know in your case you are thinking about your family being willing to change and not God’s ability to help them change, so it’s not exactly arrogance, but opening up your heart and mind to the possibility that they really could change eventually if not in this life, but the next when God has been able to show them how life gets screwed up by our misunderstandings and imperfections much more than actual maliciousness in most families as well as biologically driven limitations that mess with our head and heart.

Someday your father is going to be confronted so completely with the pain he caused you and others by his abuse that he will lose all desire to harm others in anyway.  Same with other family members.  Same with yourself.  And everyone else in existence who ends up in one of the kingdoms of God’s glory.  That level of down to the core realization and purging of the soul will result in individuals being the new men and women of Christ.

I don’t think we should make assumptions about the next life based on the worse things that happen to us here, but rather the best.

Edited November 28 by Calm

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Dario_M said:

What kind of powers does somebody earn by getting sealed to the temple? 

I am not sure how you understand the blessings we are given based on the above, what you see as the powers we are given.  It would help if you would explain what you see someone receiving when endowed.

———

You need to remember this is a faith that believes in eternal progression. There is likely always going to be something more.  For me the purpose of temple ordinances is to help us approach God, giving us greater access to the Spirit if we use what we learn in the temple.

Speculation:  there is at least one more ordinance after the endowment and temple sealing that doesn’t get talked about much.  I suspect there will be many more given in the Millennium when it becomes easier to receive instruction from God and his messengers as part of the process of God leading us to become Gods.

[Calm]

Quote

My family can't do the other ordinances for me after my death because nobody in my family is a member of the LDS community. And i'm prety sure that they will never be Mormon ....ever. But even if they would be Mormon they still don't wanna do it for my poor soul.🎭 They don't like me. So like always i need to do all those ordinances alone if i want to go that far into my Mormon journy. Like i need to do everything alone in life. 

Doesn’t have to be your family who does the ordinances for you if you wait until your death to receive them.  You can leave instructions that you want them performed, either by friends or assigned.  You can also collect the information on your family and submit it for the work to be done a year after their death.  The ordinances will be performed so that one day when your family has been able to learn about each other on new ways and come to see each other more like God sees you even if this is after death, when they realize that God loves you and he loves them in spite of any mortal shortcomings, their hearts will likely be soften and they will want to become part of God’s family with you.

God is the best teacher and the Spirit World will be a wonderful place of relearning and purging of faulty ideas, including how we perceive each other. 

 Even if it takes a thousand years, your family has the ability to listen to the light of Christ, to listen to teachers after death if they don’t listen to teachers sent to them before death.  Perhaps they won’t accept the fullness of the Gospel, such as exaltation, but you will be doing the same thing, being perfected by the work of the Lord within you, so why would they refuse to accept you at that point?  They will be sinless and so will you as all must be before residing in heaven since no unclean thing can exist in God’s presence.

Edited November 28 by Calm

[Dario_M]

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

At this time perhaps. People change, especially when they commit to living the gospel and let God more fully into their lives.  I assume death puts a very different slant on things as well.  Maybe not immediately, but for sure over time.

My family will never feel the gospel in this life Or let God into their lives. I'm not trash talking. I just know them so well. 

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think it’s pretty arrogant (arrogance can be about thinking one is too difficult for God to help as well as believing one is so talented or smart one doesn’t need anyone’s help, not even God’s).  

Uhm... so i'm arrogant now? 

I just know my family very welll and there is no way. No freaking way that they will go to church! Non of them! No single one of my family! I know that 100%💯. And then i'm talking about this life offcourse. 

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

I know in your case you are thinking about your family being willing to change and not God’s ability to help them change, so it’s not exactly arrogance, but opening up your heart and mind to the possibility that they really could change eventually if not in this life.

Maybe in another life. But not this one for sure. So that is no use to me at all for now. 

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

but the next when God has been able to show them how life gets screwed up by our misunderstandings and imperfections much more than actual maliciousness in most families as well as biologically driven limitations that mess with our head and heart.

In my case i didn't needed to be screwed up. I allready knew from a young age that God was real. Allready from my teenager years. Church is not something strange for me. I loved church. I loved the church music as well. I have played 11 years piano and 10 years church Organ. From the age of 10 till 21. But later on i decided to stop. Choose another direction. Got my driver's license. And messed around with men. At the back site of my car if necessary, because at that time i was still living with my parents. So i cauldn't bring any of them at home. I was single for to long and i really needed some quality time with men. I needed some fun in my life. Instead of practicing hours of music. Oh my...this is all so long ago. Happy memories. 

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

Someday your father is going to be confronted so completely with the pain he caused you and others by his abuse that he will lose all desire to harm others in anyway.

I hope so. He is quite stubborn though. He never can admit any of his mistakes. It's always somebody elses's fault. 

But i really hope that one day he will realise what pain he caused others with his tantrum and his horrible decisions he have made. 

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

 Same with other family members.  Same with yourself.  And everyone else in existence who ends up in one of the kingdoms of God’s glory.  That level of down to the core realization and purging of the soul will result in individuals being the new men and women of Christ.

I allready realise that i have done many many horrible mistakes. God made me feel that deeply this past year. Offcourse i do believe that after i will die God will go closer into all of that with me i expect. 

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t think we should make assumptions about the next life based on the worse things that happen to us here, but rather the best.

I was not really aware of me doing that. Me bad. 

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Uhm... so i'm arrogant now? 

Please finish reading what I wrote. And maybe reread it a few times if needed. When you have a negative reaction to something I said, you need to consider you are misunderstanding what I am saying because I tend to be careful not to be critical of those I see as sincerely engaging with others, trying to learn and understand…which I see you doing. 

Edited November 28 by Calm

[Dario_M]

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

Doesn’t have to be your family who does the ordinances for you if you wait until your death to receive them.  You can leave instructions that you want them performed, either by friends or assigned.  You can also collect the information on your family and submit it for the work to be done a year after their death.  The ordinances will be performed so that one day when your family has been able to learn about each other on new ways and come to see each other more like God sees you even if this is after death, when they realize that God loves you and he loves them in spite of any mortal shortcomings, their hearts will likely be soften and they will want to become part of God’s family with you.

Yeah you're right. I can ask a member of the LDS community to do the ordinances for me after i die. On the moment i don't have friends in my ward though. In the Netherlands it is quite difficult to make new friends easaly from scratch. So i need to work on that. 

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

God is the best teacher and the Spirit World will be a wonderful place of relearning and purging of faulty ideas, including how we perceive each other. 

Oh my. Yeah that must be wonderfull. A beautifull place full of peach far far away from this world. The spirit world. Where i can recover from all the sorrow and pain. 🌈

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

 Even if it takes a thousand years, your family has the ability to listen to the light of Christ, to listen to teachers after death if they don’t listen to teachers sent to them before death.  Perhaps they won’t accept the fullness of the Gospel, such as exaltation, but you will be doing the same thing, being perfected by the work of the Lord within you, so why would they refuse to accept you at that point?

Yeah they won't. It's only here on this earth in this life where they have a difficult time accepting me. 

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

 They will be sinless and so will you as all must be before residing in heaven since no unclean thing can exist in God’s presence.

Amen. 🙏⬆️

[Dario_M]

Just now, Calm said:

Please finish reading what I wrote. When you have a negative reaction to something I said, you need to consider you are misunderstanding what I am saying because I tend to be careful not to be critical of those I see as sincerely engaging with others, trying to learn and understand…which I see you doing. 

Allright haha. ⬆️

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

re. So that is no use to me at all for now. 

Does it bother you that your family rejects you?  It appears to me it does based on how you talk about it.  Wouldn’t it be nice not to be bothered quite so much?  To have hope that you aren’t actually trapped in this dead end with your family?  That there is a way out?

There are many things I have wanted in my life, some desperately, that never happened and cannot happen. I will never be a physicist in this life, never be a decent gymnast, never climb mountains, never skydive.  I will likely never be friends with one of my siblings who has disowned the family.  There are many more, but these are enough.  

I would be a lot more unhappy and dissatisfied with my life if I didn’t have the hope of fulfilling those dreams in the next life.  It is very useful to me to hold on to the thought this isn’t all there is, I haven’t reached my pinnacle already and it’s all downhill from now on.  I trust the Lord when he promises blessings in the next life that we weren’t given in this one.  I do not know how it will work out, I just know eternity is not going to be the least disappointing. I will have no regrets about the next life and because of that, I will have no regrets about this one.

Perhaps having hopes of having in the next life what you can’t have in this one isn’t helpful for you, but maybe you should try it out…stop focusing on what isn’t in this life and let that go because you believe you will get those blessings in the next one.

Edited November 28 by Calm

[Dario_M]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Does it bother you that your family rejects you?  It appears to me it does based on how you talk about it.  Wouldn’t it be nice not to be bothered quite so much?  To have hope that you aren’t actually trapped in this dead end with your family?  That there is a way out?

I must find that "way out" in another life. Not this one.

At least i have a photo of my mom on my phone. Last time i looked at that photo i got tears in my eyes. 

1 minute ago, Calm said:

There are many things I have wanted in my life that never happened and cannot happen. I will never be a physicist in this life, never be a decent gymnast, never climb mountains, never skydive.  I will likely never be friends with one of my siblings who has disowned the family.  There are many more, but these are enough.  

Isn't it just hard? Having problems in the family? For me it is. How about you? So....you don't see any of your brothers and sisters anymore? 

1 minute ago, Calm said:

I would be a lot more unhappy and dissatisfied with my life if I didn’t have the hope of fulfilling those dreams in the next life.  It is very useful to me to hold on to the thought this isn’t all there is, I haven’t reached my pinnacle already and it’s all downhill from now on.  I trust the Lord when he promises blessings in the next life that we weren’t given in this one.  I do not know how it will work out, I just know eternity is not going to be the least disappointing. I will have no regrets about the next life and because of that, I will have no regrets about this one.

I also have hopes for the next life. Last year i desired the next life a little bit to much and things went a little crazy from there haha. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

So....you don't see any of your brothers and sisters anymore? 

Just the one.  No one understands what happened.  Sometime in her early teens her personality changed and a lot of fighting started.  There is always something we do that she sees as justifying her refusing to interact with us.  Some make sense, others don’t.  I have three other siblings I have decent relationships with, my oldest sister I am pretty close to.  She is a wonderful aunt to all of our children.

Edited November 28 by Calm

[Dario_M]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Just the one.  No one understands what happened.  Sometime in her early teens her personality changed and a lot of fighting started.  There is always something we do that she sees as justifying her refusing to interact with us.  Some make sense, others don’t.  I have three other siblings I have decent relationships with, my oldest sister I am pretty close to.  She is a wonderful aunt to all of our children.

Oh okay. I thought that you said that you had no contact with any of your siblings. I'm happy for you that you have such nice family then. 

Well..mine is not. So i don't wanna see them anymore. 

[Autonomous]

On 11/28/2024 at 2:23 AM, Calm said:

It makes a marriage, the family an eternal relationship. 

I firmly believe that no organization, religious or otherwise, should have the authority to intrude on deeply personal bonds like marriage.  To suggest that two people cannot share a marriage or eternal bond unless a third party permits it feels, to me, like an affront to human dignity and agency—it imposes control where none belongs. Our connections with one another are built by us, through shared love, commitment, and effort—not through any external decree.

It is really twisted to tie sacred and intimate acts to church membership, a real power grab, with unjust authority over families. By claiming exclusivity in defining or legitimizing relationships, such institutions often perpetuate the idea that love and family bonds are conditional upon their approval. But this simply isn't true. Families grow close—or not—based on the time, work, and care individuals invest in one another, not because of a certificate or religious ritual. No church has a monopoly on love, and no middleman is needed to affirm or sustain the bonds we create with each other. True meaning in relationships comes from within, not from outside institutions seeking influence over personal lives.

 

Just FYI, I'm sure all here already know that, but it is quite offensive to suggest that only through paying $$ and vowing obedience to some "church" can families "really" be united and eternally bound.