Hello

[Autonomous]

8 hours ago, manol said:

 

Welcome!

Imo, it sounds like they haven't figure out yet that there is really only "us".

 

"Love the whole world as if it were your self." - Tao Te Ching;  "Love your neighbor as yourself." - Christ

"If you open yourself to the Tao [the Way], you and the Tao become one." - Tao Te Ching;  "I am the Way... I am the vine and you are the branches." - Christ

 

If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, (no matter where it comes from) we seek after these things.

The world is filled with equally valid scripture, none better than another, all worthy of study and meditation 

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Autonomous said:

 

There's a saying, "blood is thicker than water," family bonds are supposed to be the strongest. But I’ve realized the most profound connections in my life have been with the people I’ve chosen—my friends, my partner, my chosen tribe. Even marriage, the foundation of a family, starts with two people who aren’t related but decide to build something together. That idea reshaped how I see "family" because it begins not with shared blood, but with shared love and intention.

As I grew older, my relationship with my parents has shifted. It is at first frustrating - to see my parents loyalty leaned toward their friends, their community, their religious beliefs, above me.... I guess just my ego wanting to be the priority, but I'm starting to be ok with it.  I’ve seen how many LGBT kids, or just kids with different beliefs are rejected by their families because their parents prioritize the teachings of their faith over their own children. It’s heartbreaking, but it taught me something: as we grow up, we get to choose our own tribe. We find the people who love us for who we are, not because of some obligation.

I’ve come to believe that the strongest bonds are the ones we create for ourselves. For me, water—those friendships and chosen connections—has become thicker than blood. It’s in these relationships that I’ve found the loyalty and love I always hoped for, and in a way, I’ve turned water into blood by building a family of my own.  My tribe is not based on shared religious beliefs, I can't quite put a finger on what pulls us together.  Time along to find yourself, followed by finding your tribe... put your own air mask on first, I slip back into wanting parental acceptance and approval, but a night of sleep and now telling myself I'm finally figuring out what healthy relationships are, its ok if family does not embrace me, I'll give them their freedom of me, I'm a big kid - can create my own tribe :).  Cook the obligatory turkey, then go on our ways, our separate lives in different states, that's life.  Kids are supposed to grow up, move out, and move on.

This should be pinned, beautiful. And congrats on finding your tribe or your second family. ❤️

[Autonomous]

10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This should be pinned, beautiful. And congrats on finding your tribe or your second family. ❤️

 

Aww, I'm still not able to like posts yet.  It's frustrating, I know a few families who do seem to have it all - happy family and friends, and I'm jealous of them.  Pretending to hold beliefs to keep the peace - some masquerade - just doesn't work.  

In Belize, at time leaving family traditions,  we had a special guide - Mayan,  who was also leaving his traditions.  We toured Actun Tunichil Muknal (ATM) cave, and our guide was very honest about the superstitious religious artifacts... drugs behind visions, just matter of fact talked through his family's crazy stuff....  His grandparents were convinced he was now cursed for going into the cave, abd taking others into the cave... he wasn't cursed, he was blessed, made a good living.  It was a real life "Plato's Cave".  I'll always be grateful to that guide and his humble example facing truth, understanding his heritage, keeping his history alive without being trapped by it.  A long journey.  Pioneers, all of us.

[Rain]

On 11/29/2024 at 7:04 AM, Autonomous said:

 

There's a saying, "blood is thicker than water," family bonds are supposed to be the strongest. But I’ve realized the most profound connections in my life have been with the people I’ve chosen—my friends, my partner, my chosen tribe. Even marriage, the foundation of a family, starts with two people who aren’t related but decide to build something together. That idea reshaped how I see "family" because it begins not with shared blood, but with shared love and intention.

As I grew older, my relationship with my parents has shifted. It is at first frustrating - to see my parents loyalty leaned toward their friends, their community, their religious beliefs, above me.... I guess just my ego wanting to be the priority, but I'm starting to be ok with it.  I’ve seen how many LGBT kids, or just kids with different beliefs are rejected by their families because their parents prioritize the teachings of their faith over their own children. It’s heartbreaking, but it taught me something: as we grow up, we get to choose our own tribe. We find the people who love us for who we are, not because of some obligation.

I’ve come to believe that the strongest bonds are the ones we create for ourselves. For me, water—those friendships and chosen connections—has become thicker than blood. It’s in these relationships that I’ve found the loyalty and love I always hoped for, and in a way, I’ve turned water into blood by building a family of my own.  My tribe is not based on shared religious beliefs, I can't quite put a finger on what pulls us together.  Time along to find yourself, followed by finding your tribe... put your own air mask on first, I slip back into wanting parental acceptance and approval, but a night of sleep and now telling myself I'm finally figuring out what healthy relationships are, its ok if family does not embrace me, I'll give them their freedom of me, I'm a big kid - can create my own tribe :).  Cook the obligatory turkey, then go on our ways, our separate lives in different states, that's life.  Kids are supposed to grow up, move out, and move on.

I answer this being in the middle of a sandwich - a son that has pretty much cut off contact from me and a dad who I have struggled with my whole life.

Choosing is very important in relationships. Last year I read Tattoos on the Heart where Gregory Boyle chose to love gang members.  Not this whispy "I just love everyone", but loving them for who they are, loving deep and connected. It made me think a lot about loving others.

One thing I found myself thinking was that I could love gang members easier than some ward members. It took me awhile to shake myself out of that because if I really understood and felt the concept then I would quit putting limits on my love for them. 

I think the idea is the same with family. Just as you choose a spouse and friends around you, you have to choose family too if you want a connection with them. So I don't think blood is thicker than water, but I do think that sometimes we treat blood differently than water and sometimes we treat one better and sometimes the other better.

So here I am choosing to have a better relationship with my dad. Choosing him as my tribe even though there will always be some things we can't talk about, but I recognize that is largely because of how he was raised. I hope some day that will change because I have seen him change so much, but I know he doesn't have many more years left so time is running short. But still I choose him, not a gang member, but still hard and I find there is much I gain because of that choice. I was so surprised after 50 years of silence to hear his story last month for the first time as he talked about being in Vietnam because he finally feels safe within his family. So maybe some time he will share is childhood experiences too.  Choosing him has been a gift.

Right now I am not in my son's tribe.  I may never be.  I have changed a lot, learned a lot and he doesn't know it because he doesn't choose me. He has no idea how hurt I have felt just as I'm sure I don't understand his hurt. But I choose him.  He is still in my tribe and will always be even though I'm not in his. I hope some day he changes his mind and chooses me.

You have to do what is right for you.  You have dealt with a lot of pain and still deal with it. It's a tricky road leaving this religion, when your family are so into it in ways that I could not have imagined before I quit believing. But just as blood is not thicker than water, leave yourself open to the possibility that sometimes choosing blood to join your water tribe is a good thing despite the difficulties. 

 

[Autonomous]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

I answer this being in the middle of a sandwich - a son that has pretty much cut off contact from me and a dad who I have struggled with my whole life.

Choosing is very important in relationships. Last year I read Tattoos on the Heart where Gregory Boyle chose to love gang members.  Not this whispy "I just love everyone", but loving them for who they are, loving deep and connected. It made me think a lot about loving others.

One thing I found myself thinking was that I could love gang members easier than some ward members. It took me awhile to shake myself out of that because if I really understood and felt the concept then I would quit putting limits on my love for them. 

I think the idea is the same with family. Just as you choose a spouse and friends around you, you have to choose family too if you want a connection with them. So I don't think blood is thicker than water, but I do think that sometimes we treat blood differently than water and sometimes we treat one better and sometimes the other better.

So here I am choosing to have a better relationship with my dad. Choosing him as my tribe even though there will always be some things we can't talk about, but I recognize that is largely because of how he was raised. I hope some day that will change because I have seen him change so much, but I know he doesn't have many more years left so time is running short. But still I choose him, not a gang member, but still hard and I find there is much I gain because of that choice. I was so surprised after 50 years of silence to hear his story last month for the first time as he talked about being in Vietnam because he finally feels safe within his family. So maybe some time he will share is childhood experiences too.  Choosing him has been a gift.

Right now I am not in my son's tribe.  I may never be.  I have changed a lot, learned a lot and he doesn't know it because he doesn't choose me. He has no idea how hurt I have felt just as I'm sure I don't understand his hurt. But I choose him.  He is still in my tribe and will always be even though I'm not in his. I hope some day he changes his mind and chooses me.

You have to do what is right for you.  You have dealt with a lot of pain and still deal with it. It's a tricky road leaving this religion, when your family are so into it in ways that I could not have imagined before I quit believing. But just as blood is not thicker than water, leave yourself open to the possibility that sometimes choosing blood to join your water tribe is a good thing despite the difficulties. 

 

I'm still not up to 25 points or I would love your post.  Thanks for the book suggestion!  I think strangers, even gang members are easy to love - the adage, "never meet your hero's", or I suppose "never meet anyone"... it is those who you know the best - that you meet - who become the most difficult to love, but if you can't take the yin and yang together in everyone, it's not deep, its not real.    Life is suffering. Attachment to desire is the cause of this suffering.  It can't be translated well into English, but but if you love someone - let them go, not clutching, seeks no control, unshackled, without clinging - those Buddhists were onto something.  Love them all from a distance I guess.  Hold onto good memories.  

A favorite story (though the author did not have family figured out either) - 

Once there lived a village of creatures on the bottom of a great crystal river.  The current of the river swept silently over them all - young and old, rich and poor, good and evil, the current going its own way, knowing its own crystal self.  Each creature in its own manner clung tightly to the twigs and rocks of the river bottom, for clinging was their way of life, and resisting the current what each had learned from birth.  But one creature said at last, "I am tired of clinging. Though I cannot see it with my eyes, I trust that the current knows where it is going. I shall let go, and let it take me where it will. Clinging, I shall die of boredom."  The other creatures laughed and said, "Fool! Let go, and that current you worship will throw you tumbled and smashed across the rocks, and you will die quicker than boredom!"  But the one heeded them not, and taking a breath did let go, and at once was tumbled and smashed by the current across the rocks.

Yet in time, as the creature refused to cling again, the current lifted him free from the bottom, and he was bruised and hurt no more.  And the creatures downstream, to whom he was a stranger, cried, "See a miracle! A creature like ourselves, yet he flies! See the Messiah, come to save us all!"  And the one carried in the current said, "I am no more Messiah than you. The river delights to lift us free, if only we dare let go. Our true work is this voyage, this adventure."  But they cried the more, "Savior!" all the while clinging to the rocks, and when they looked again he was gone, and they were left alone making legends of a Savior." - Richard Bach  (Jonathan Livingston Seagull)

[manol]

35 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Once there lived a village of creatures on the bottom of a great crystal river.  The current of the river swept silently over them all - young and old, rich and poor, good and evil, the current going its own way, knowing its own crystal self.  Each creature in its own manner clung tightly to the twigs and rocks of the river bottom, for clinging was their way of life, and resisting the current what each had learned from birth.  But one creature said at last, "I am tired of clinging. Though I cannot see it with my eyes, I trust that the current knows where it is going. I shall let go, and let it take me where it will. Clinging, I shall die of boredom."  The other creatures laughed and said, "Fool! Let go, and that current you worship will throw you tumbled and smashed across the rocks, and you will die quicker than boredom!"  But the one heeded them not, and taking a breath did let go, and at once was tumbled and smashed by the current across the rocks.

Yet in time, as the creature refused to cling again, the current lifted him free from the bottom, and he was bruised and hurt no more.  And the creatures downstream, to whom he was a stranger, cried, "See a miracle! A creature like ourselves, yet he flies! See the Messiah, come to save us all!"  And the one carried in the current said, "I am no more Messiah than you. The river delights to lift us free, if only we dare let go. Our true work is this voyage, this adventure."  But they cried the more, "Savior!" all the while clinging to the rocks, and when they looked again he was gone, and they were left alone making legends of a Savior." - Richard Bach  (Jonathan Livingston Seagull)

^^^like^^^

[Kenngo1969]

On 11/28/2024 at 5:50 AM, Tony uk said:

... I am new myself to this board. And I am not LSD myself ...

Well!  I'm certainly glad you're not LSD [sic], Mister Tony!     I'm sorry: I know you're new, so I probably shouldn't have, but I had to do it!

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2024 by Kenngo1969

[JVW]

I have seen some of your posts around and I think we've interacted a bit and I really enjoy reading your perspective. I hope that you will be around for a long time and comment on anything that interests you. You strike me as a very reasonable, thoughtful person.

Personally, my favorite topics of conversation are politics and religion, so I'm not good to ask about what to talk about with people. I'm not into sports or guns, but those topics are easy to get going if speaking with someone that's into those things. I'm a very even keel guy so talking about stuff that can bring out the fire in people really invigorates me and I love being in hard conversations with people where we both come out the other side still loving each other. Another easy topic is anything that's "gossip" related. If there was something crazy that happened to someone you know, relating the story can lead to some really fun conversations as others open up some of the dirt they know about others in their lives. For the record I don't really know what is gossip and what isn't. I'm a weird person (according to others) and have spent years trying to understand what is socially acceptable so what I feel like is gossip is actually probably just normal conversation topics for all I know.

As far as church stuff goes. I'm a convert from atheism about 14 years ago. I have a very colorful history, like Nehor does. My wife and kids are religious, but my siblings are not and my parents aren't. I don't expect all of my kids to remain religious as they become teenagers and adults, but I do hope that they'll retain a belief in a higher power. Regardless of what religion someone affiliates with, most people are not religious or thoughtful about their existence. I enjoy trying to understand what other truly believe and what is truly important to them, and when I have those conversations I inevitably end up peeling back a few layers of self-deception and discover more about what I truly believe as well. Good times.