Hello

[Autonomous]

Hello.  Joined as place to gear up for holidays with Mormon relatives.  Trying to remind myself of a few things, although I should probably just give up, sit in a corner with my books, stop even attempting to feel included in this crowd lol... I do like my books, no problem there.

[MustardSeed]

33 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Hello.  Joined as place to gear up for holidays with Mormon relatives.  Trying to remind myself of a few things, although I should probably just give up, sit in a corner with my books, stop even attempting to feel included in this crowd lol... I do like my books, no problem there.

How can we help you. 
though I imagine that my Mormon-ness will in no way be seen as helpful, perhaps my humanness can. 

Edited November 27 by MustardSeed

[Autonomous]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

How can we help you. 
though I imagine that my Mormon-ness will in no way be seen as helpful, perhaps my humanness can. 

 

As a Mormon, are you close to anyone who is not Mormon?  Like really close?  If so, do you put aside talking about church/temple/things your non-Mormon friends do not participate in - when around them?  Is there part of yourself that isn't Mormon - can you be just a regular old human and enjoy human - non-Mormon conversations and close friendships?

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

 

As a Mormon, are you close to anyone who is not Mormon?  Like really close?  If so, do you put aside talking about church/temple/things your non-Mormon friends do not participate in - when around them?  Is there part of yourself that isn't Mormon - can you be just a regular old human and enjoy human - non-Mormon conversations and close friendships?

Most of my extended family aren’t members, or aren’t active, so we rarely talk about church stuff when together. Although, even when it’s just us members we probably only talk about church stuff 10% of the time.

As a member I would find it very weird to be around members who only or mostly talked about church. 

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Hello.  Joined as place to gear up for holidays with Mormon relatives.  Trying to remind myself of a few things, although I should probably just give up, sit in a corner with my books, stop even attempting to feel included in this crowd lol... I do like my books, no problem there.

Welcome to the board. 😊

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Autonomous said:

 

As a Mormon, are you close to anyone who is not Mormon?  Like really close?  If so, do you put aside talking about church/temple/things your non-Mormon friends do not participate in - when around them?  Is there part of yourself that isn't Mormon - can you be just a regular old human and enjoy human - non-Mormon conversations and close friendships?

I had a crisis of faith in the church over 10 years ago. It's been a journey and a half. This board has been extremely helpful to discuss things about the church that I don't dare speak about. I have said a little about what started it but didn't want them to go down the rabbit hole like myself, so I leave it alone and try to be what I use to around my very LDS in-laws and my sister. Who are all in, and very faithful and very busy in the church. Along with some of my closest friends. So I have nearly all LDS surrounding me.

I will be going on a 14 day cruise with my in law's and I'm trying to gear up for being around them, I really do enjoy their company, but have one sister in law that wears her LDS-ness on her sleeve so to speak. But she had abuse growing up so the temple and the church have been a lifesaver to her, so I understand why she's the way she is. 

So maybe if you could just try to enjoy their company, and understand that there are reasons some live their religion on their sleeves. Hopefully they will help you feel included and show interest in things other than church talk which I'm thinking won't be a problem.

Best of luck, I do understand where you're coming from though. Welcome to the board and have a Happy Thanksgiving! 

ETA: Dang, I read my comment and realized you weren't asking for what I answered. So let me see....yes, the rest of my siblings except for the sister I mentioned aren't active in the church and I did try not to bring up church stuff because I once was very active and held many callings so didn't talk about church stuff much around those that aren't active. Often I was self conscious around them actually, like I didn't belong because of my being different from them.

Edited November 28 by Tacenda

[rpn]

For many members how they live their lives is just completely wrapped up in the gospel, and its teachings.   If it seems like a college professor family member talks about what he is familiar with, it is kind of the same.   I'd suggest those who want to talk about something not gospel/church related, prepare some topic cards, and propose someone draw one to change the topic from time to time.   Because of what is happening in our country at the moment, there may be a disconnect unrelated to faith this year that also needs moving beyond the things people may fight about.   Being prepared with some options of other topics might help lots of holiday interactions this year.

[Autonomous]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Most of my extended family aren’t members, or aren’t active, so we rarely talk about church stuff when together. Although, even when it’s just us members we probably only talk about church stuff 10% of the time.

As a member I would find it very weird to be around members who only or mostly talked about church. 

Great to hear.  My poor m.i.l. is widowed, and the Mormon church is now pretty much her life - and I'm glad she has that Utah community,  so for her it's all she can talk about.  Others at different stages in life have more in their life which is just different stages. I'll try to find comfortable convos with my m.i.l. - food, family, I'll figure it out. 

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Welcome to the board. 😊

Thanks!

[Autonomous]

37 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I had a crisis of faith in the church over 10 years ago. It's been a journey and a half. This board has been extremely helpful to discuss things about the church that I don't dare speak about. I have said a little about what started it but didn't want them to go down the rabbit hole like myself, so I leave it alone and try to be what I use to around my very LDS in-laws and my sister. Who are all in, and very faithful and very busy in the church. Along with some of my closest friends. So I have nearly all LDS surrounding me.

I will be going on a 14 day cruise with my in law's and I'm trying to gear up for being around them, I really do enjoy their company, but have one sister in law that wears her LDS-ness on her sleeve so to speak. But she had abuse growing up so the temple and the church have been a lifesaver to her, so I understand why she's the way she is. 

So maybe if you could just try to enjoy their company, and understand that there are reasons some live their religion on their sleeves. Hopefully they will help you feel included and show interest in things other than church talk which I'm thinking won't be a problem.

Best of luck, I do understand where you're coming from though. Welcome to the board and have a Happy Thanksgiving! 

ETA: Dang, I read my comment and realized you weren't asking for what I answered. So let me see....yes, the rest of my siblings except for the sister I mentioned aren't active in the church and I did try not to bring up church stuff because I once was very active and held many callings so didn't talk about church stuff much around those that aren't active. Often I was self conscious around them actually, like I didn't belong because of my being different from them.

 

I've been in and out of several different religious groups - there's the covenant bond, or the anointed, the chosen haha, so many groups.  Groupthink is a trip, but I no longer see it as a healthy bond, codependent vs healthy relashionships - to me a bit of independence is needed for healthy bonds.  It's a mind trip, figuring out what healthy relashionships look like after experiencing groupthink. Mormons are not the worst when it comes to groupthink (spend time with JW's lol)  

 

It feels like a strong spiritual bond when you're all-in, but it's not bonding to people, its bonding to ideology.  One step out of ideology and what you thought was close ties turns to smoke and mirrors... have to find yourself, then learn what healthy relashionships look like.

 

[Autonomous]

16 minutes ago, rpn said:

For many members how they live their lives is just completely wrapped up in the gospel, and its teachings.   If it seems like a college professor family member talks about what he is familiar with, it is kind of the same.   I'd suggest those who want to talk about something not gospel/church related, prepare some topic cards, and propose someone draw one to change the topic from time to time.   Because of what is happening in our country at the moment, there may be a disconnect unrelated to faith this year that also needs moving beyond the things people may fight about.   Being prepared with some options of other topics might help lots of holiday interactions this year.

 

Yes, common ties are needed - love for outdoors, hiking/biking/rafting/skiing  - if you're not into it, you're out of conversation.  

Everyone loves food, can always talk recipes  (until the vegan gets offended at descriptions of meat) or the celiac/lactose intollerant/diabetic starts craving what they shouldn't... 

 

Or politics lol - just start a good political discussion 🤣 😂 

 

Lol - what's everyone's safe conversation topics for the holidays?

[MustardSeed]

45 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Lol - what's everyone's safe conversation topics for the holidays?

Anything but politics!  Here are five good conversation starters for the dinner table.  You might could take this on, to give yourself the gift of conversation on your terms!

1. What is your favorite vacation memory and why? 
2.  Who are your Hollywood crushes, male and female? (This is just for fun) 

3.  What teacher in school were you most inspired by / afraid of and why? 
4.  What do you hope people feel when they are in your presence? 
5.  What surprises you most about being your age? 
 

to answer your question, my very best friend is a member of the church, but the friends I spend most of my time with are not members of the church. 
I like to think I have pretty reasonable social skills. I’m very sensitive to mixed company and church members monopolizing conversation, leaving others out.  I don’t like it when people make the assumption that everybody thinks the way that they think.  
 

Your mom is not aware. She’s also aging. I would say, steer the conversations the way you want them to go. Change subjects. Introduce new interesting topics.  You’ve got this!  I hope you can enjoy some time with food and loved ones. ❤️

[Autonomous]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Anything but politics!  Here are five good conversation starters for the dinner table.  You might could take this on, to give yourself the gift of conversation on your terms!

1. What is your favorite vacation memory and why? 
2.  Who are your Hollywood crushes, male and female? (This is just for fun) 

3.  What teacher in school were you most inspired by / afraid of and why? 
4.  What do you hope people feel when they are in your presence? 
5.  What surprises you most about being your age? 
 

to answer your question, my very best friend is a member of the church, but the friends I spend most of my time with are not members of the church. 
I like to think I have pretty reasonable social skills. I’m very sensitive to mixed company and church members monopolizing conversation, leaving others out.  I don’t like it when people make the assumption that everybody thinks the way that they think.  
 

Your mom is not aware. She’s also aging. I would say, steer the conversations the way you want them to go. Change subjects. Introduce new interesting topics.  You’ve got this!  I hope you can enjoy some time with food and loved ones. ❤️

I haven't figured out how to like posts yet, but really good conversation starter suggestions - I'll use some of those, thanks!

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Anything but politics!  Here are five good conversation starters for the dinner table.  You might could take this on, to give yourself the gift of conversation on your terms!

1. What is your favorite vacation memory and why? 
2.  Who are your Hollywood crushes, male and female? (This is just for fun) 

3.  What teacher in school were you most inspired by / afraid of and why? 
4.  What do you hope people feel when they are in your presence? 
5.  What surprises you most about being your age? 
 

to answer your question, my very best friend is a member of the church, but the friends I spend most of my time with are not members of the church. 
I like to think I have pretty reasonable social skills. I’m very sensitive to mixed company and church members monopolizing conversation, leaving others out.  I don’t like it when people make the assumption that everybody thinks the way that they think.  
 

Your mom is not aware. She’s also aging. I would say, steer the conversations the way you want them to go. Change subjects. Introduce new interesting topics.  You’ve got this!  I hope you can enjoy some time with food and loved ones. ❤️

I want to steal these topic ideas for conversation when my kids come over, excellent questions MustardSeed!

[Tacenda]

34 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

I haven't figured out how to like posts yet, but really good conversation starter suggestions - I'll use some of those, thanks!

I think if you're new here you need to post like 25 posts/comments and then you're ability to like and start topics in the different discussion topics will happen. Many like to use up posts in the three word story on the Social page.  

[Calm]

7 hours ago, bluebell said:

Most of my extended family aren’t members, or aren’t active, so we rarely talk about church stuff when together. Although, even when it’s just us members we probably only talk about church stuff 10% of the time.

As a member I would find it very weird to be around members who only or mostly talked about church. 

Same here.  In fact, since I like talking religion, it used to bother me my fellow Saints weren’t interested in discussing it that much.  It was so hard to get any such discussion going outside of Sunday classes.  Most of the time it was just the practical aspects of church activities we discussed, if at all. 

Edited November 28 by Calm

[Tony uk]

Hello Autonomous.

I am new myself to this board. And I am not LSD myself, although Church attendee elsewhere. Since I came to this board a week ago. I found the members to be friendly and helpful. They have provided me with information on the subject I have been looking at.

[Tony uk]

9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I think if you're new here you need to post like 25 posts/comments and then you're ability to like and start topics in the different discussion topics will happen. Many like to use up posts in the three word story on the Social page.  

I joined last week, once I got to 25 , like Tacenda mentioned. I was able to like other comments.

[bluebell]

13 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Great to hear.  My poor m.i.l. is widowed, and the Mormon church is now pretty much her life - and I'm glad she has that Utah community,  so for her it's all she can talk about.  Others at different stages in life have more in their life which is just different stages. I'll try to find comfortable convos with my m.i.l. - food, family, I'll figure it out. 

Thanks!

I think that's a really great perspective, and it's very kind as well.  

[Rain]

Too late for Thanksgiving, but I really like the Talking Points Generations cards. Every once in awhile I will throw one up on our family chat. Some get ignored or just 1 person answers. Others really get conversation going.

I no longer believe in the church, but attend with my husband. Last June our family had a family reunion and there was so much talk.  Very little of it was about church. I went into this unbelieving stage wanting to keep my relationship with my family. I know how important church is to many of them so if they talk about church I'm ok with it. But that's how my life has been for a long time - 37 years ago I met my husband and he talks a lot about electrical engineering.  I'm not interested in it, but I love him so I'm ok talking about it with him sometimes, mostly just listening and occasionally asking questions about how he feels about such and such or what he did after that thing happened.  That's how I am with church topics.   I listen because I love my family members. And I say that despite deciding last Sunday that I can no longer go to relief society and I'll just go to meetings my husband attends.

But really as much as I was involved with church and as much as it was a part of my home it was never a part of every conversation. If you have listened to church leaders then you know the church teaches that people are here to learn. So if people are not having conversations about trees, bikes, cake, cancer, gardening, music, rocks, electricity, relationships, stars, bugs, camping, Tokyo, olympics etc. they are missing out on all the learning. While a few members can get into the mindset of only church, most have a vast array of things to talk about. 

In our family chat church probably is about 2-5% of our conversations. The bigger topics are Pikmin Bloom, football, music, tiny plastic rubber ducks, and for this month all the many things people are grateful for especially family.

[Autonomous]

19 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I think if you're new here you need to post like 25 posts/comments and then you're ability to like and start topics in the different discussion topics will happen. Many like to use up posts in the three word story on the Social page.  

I'll try to get to 25 posts then

[Autonomous]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

 

In our family chat church probably is about 2-5% of our conversations. The bigger topics are Pikmin Bloom, football, music, tiny plastic rubber ducks, and for this month all the many things people are grateful for especially family.

 

Thinking through the conversations today, they revolved around family.  I want to convince myself it was loving concerned thoughts, but it had the feeling of gossip / judgement,  seems to revolve around just talking about problems rather than celebrating success, few compliments, downplay and no acknowledging compliments I tried to interject. 

I messed up prayer, was just fussing with food and serving, kids started eating without prayer... the religious folks formed their own separate group, said a loud prayer without inviting others to join... I apologized for not starting with prayer, and recieved an ear full of - well we always pray before every meal...  definatly us vs them going on, charged manipulative questions to kids, very frustrating.  

I fed everyone, fixed their beds, every year I host because that's just me, I'm the worker ant, think if I just work/serve enough I'll be included... I'm the family doormat and that's just what it is.  

 

Comfort in some Taoist teachings.  Do what needs to be done, empty boats.  I feel I'm surrounded by empty boats.  Just a few more days, and then I'll be back to work, what I enjoy, with my little community. Greater appreciation for work, and for little spots of solitude.  

[Rain]

36 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

 

Thinking through the conversations today, they revolved around family.  I want to convince myself it was loving concerned thoughts, but it had the feeling of gossip / judgement,  seems to revolve around just talking about problems rather than celebrating success, few compliments, downplay and no acknowledging compliments I tried to interject. 

I messed up prayer, was just fussing with food and serving, kids started eating without prayer... the religious folks formed their own separate group, said a loud prayer without inviting others to join... I apologized for not starting with prayer, and recieved an ear full of - well we always pray before every meal...  definatly us vs them going on, charged manipulative questions to kids, very frustrating.  

I fed everyone, fixed their beds, every year I host because that's just me, I'm the worker ant, think if I just work/serve enough I'll be included... I'm the family doormat and that's just what it is.  

 

Comfort in some Taoist teachings.  Do what needs to be done, empty boats.  I feel I'm surrounded by empty boats.  Just a few more days, and then I'll be back to work, what I enjoy, with my little community. Greater appreciation for work, and for little spots of solitude.  

That's tough.  Not easy to deal with it all some times.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Autonomous said:

 

Thinking through the conversations today, they revolved around family.  I want to convince myself it was loving concerned thoughts, but it had the feeling of gossip / judgement,  seems to revolve around just talking about problems rather than celebrating success, few compliments, downplay and no acknowledging compliments I tried to interject. 

I messed up prayer, was just fussing with food and serving, kids started eating without prayer... the religious folks formed their own separate group, said a loud prayer without inviting others to join... I apologized for not starting with prayer, and recieved an ear full of - well we always pray before every meal...  definatly us vs them going on, charged manipulative questions to kids, very frustrating.  

I fed everyone, fixed their beds, every year I host because that's just me, I'm the worker ant, think if I just work/serve enough I'll be included... I'm the family doormat and that's just what it is.  

 

Comfort in some Taoist teachings.  Do what needs to be done, empty boats.  I feel I'm surrounded by empty boats.  Just a few more days, and then I'll be back to work, what I enjoy, with my little community. Greater appreciation for work, and for little spots of solitude.  

Wow, you are a Saint! Some of your family members are in a muddled fog, to have not just appreciated you and seriously should have just let it go as far as the prayer thing...think spirit of the law thing.

I'm like you and like when all this holiday stuff is over! Enjoy family and all, but like things to be on the down low where there's no rush and no stress. 

Today I hosted my family, like you, and I was such a dunce because of lack of sleep I hope, and forgot to pull out the veggies for a vegetable plate and forgot to put the French fried onions on top of the bean casserole, which I made from scratch. 

But luckily it worked out, and my new soon to be daughter in law came in like a wrecking ball with food items because preparing food is her love language, I was certainly fine with that. So I really had it quite easy and some others brought things. Me, just the turkey, potatoes, rolls and my sides that I messed up on.

 

 

[manol]

 

Welcome!

3 hours ago, Autonomous said:

... definitely us vs them going on...

Imo, it sounds like they haven't figure out yet that there is really only "us".

 

3 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Comfort in some Taoist teachings

"Love the whole world as if it were your self." - Tao Te Ching;  "Love your neighbor as yourself." - Christ

"If you open yourself to the Tao [the Way], you and the Tao become one." - Tao Te Ching;  "I am the Way... I am the vine and you are the branches." - Christ

[Autonomous]

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Wow, you are a Saint! Some of your family members are in a muddled fog, to have not just appreciated you and seriously should have just let it go as far as the prayer thing...think spirit of the law thing.

I'm like you and like when all this holiday stuff is over! Enjoy family and all, but like things to be on the down low where there's no rush and no stress. 

Today I hosted my family, like you, and I was such a dunce because of lack of sleep I hope, and forgot to pull out the veggies for a vegetable plate and forgot to put the French fried onions on top of the bean casserole, which I made from scratch. 

But luckily it worked out, and my new soon to be daughter in law came in like a wrecking ball with food items because preparing food is her love language, I was certainly fine with that. So I really had it quite easy and some others brought things. Me, just the turkey, potatoes, rolls and my sides that I messed up on.

 

 

 

There's a saying, "blood is thicker than water," family bonds are supposed to be the strongest. But I’ve realized the most profound connections in my life have been with the people I’ve chosen—my friends, my partner, my chosen tribe. Even marriage, the foundation of a family, starts with two people who aren’t related but decide to build something together. That idea reshaped how I see "family" because it begins not with shared blood, but with shared love and intention.

As I grew older, my relationship with my parents has shifted. It is at first frustrating - to see my parents loyalty leaned toward their friends, their community, their religious beliefs, above me.... I guess just my ego wanting to be the priority, but I'm starting to be ok with it.  I’ve seen how many LGBT kids, or just kids with different beliefs are rejected by their families because their parents prioritize the teachings of their faith over their own children. It’s heartbreaking, but it taught me something: as we grow up, we get to choose our own tribe. We find the people who love us for who we are, not because of some obligation.

I’ve come to believe that the strongest bonds are the ones we create for ourselves. For me, water—those friendships and chosen connections—has become thicker than blood. It’s in these relationships that I’ve found the loyalty and love I always hoped for, and in a way, I’ve turned water into blood by building a family of my own.  My tribe is not based on shared religious beliefs, I can't quite put a finger on what pulls us together.  Time along to find yourself, followed by finding your tribe... put your own air mask on first, I slip back into wanting parental acceptance and approval, but a night of sleep and now telling myself I'm finally figuring out what healthy relationships are, its ok if family does not embrace me, I'll give them their freedom of me, I'm a big kid - can create my own tribe :).  Cook the obligatory turkey, then go on our ways, our separate lives in different states, that's life.  Kids are supposed to grow up, move out, and move on.