Netflix Show Re: Mountain Meadows (and Provo River Massacre?)

[smac97]

Old-timers here will remember our discussions about 2007's pretty-terribly-made September Dawn, a movie about The Mountain Meadows Massacre:

Rottentomatoes.com And September Dawn Reviews

Looking For Help With Tracking Down A Quote Attributed To Brigham Young

It looks like we are getting another Hollywood treatment of the massacre, courtesy of Netflix: Mormon pioneers featured in "violent" Netflix historical drama "American Primeval"

Quote

Kim Coates as Brigham Young and Alex Breaux as Utah frontiersman Wild Bill Hickman. Courtesy: Netflix

 

A new drama series on Netflix will depict the "violent collision of culture, religion, and community" of the Old West — including the arrival of Mormon pioneers in Utah.

The big picture: In "American Primeval," director Pete Berg takes viewers to the mountain west in 1857, 10 years after Brigham Young led Latter-day Saints into what is now Salt Lake City.

"Up is down, pain is everywhere, innocence and tranquility are losing the battle to hatred and fear," per Netflix, which released early images of the show Tuesday. "There is no safe haven in these brutal lands, and only one goal matters: survival."

What's inside: The casting notes and photo captions indicate Utah will be featured prominently, with Kim Coates guest starring as Young.

• Jacob and Abish Pratt, heads of a Mormon pioneer family, are listed as starring roles — but they appear to be fictionalized and unconnected to the famous early church leaders Parley and Orson Pratt. The Pratts are played by Dane DeHaan and Saura Lightfoot-Leon.
• Joe Tippett stars as a Latter-day Saint leading a morally compromised militia.
• Alex Breaux plays Wild Bill Hickman, a Utah frontiersman and lawmaker who led attacks on the Timpanogos people in Rock Canyon.
• Mountain man Jim Bridger will be played by Shea Whigham.

What they're saying: Brigham Young is described as "a man who will do whatever it takes to secure the survival of his persecuted followers — including using his Mormon army, the Nauvoo Legion," the cast description states.
...

Catch up quick: Latter-day Saints and related sects tend to get a lot of attention in streaming productions, from the docuseries "Daughters of the Cult" to September's "The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives."

What's next: "American Primeval" premieres Jan. 9.

"{T}he mountain west in 1857."

"{Brigham Young will} do whatever it takes to secure the survival of his persecuted followers — including using his Mormon army, the Nauvoo Legion."

This made me curious about how they will portray Brigham Young, since there is no specific mention here of MMM, but "whatever it takes" and "1857" seemed pretty clear. 

Also, the reference to "Wild Bill Hickman, a Utah frontiersman and lawmaker who led attacks on the Timpanogos people in Rock Canyon," seems a bit out of place for a story set in 1857.  This is pretty clearly a reference to the "Battle at Fort Utah" (a/k/a the "Provo River Massacre" or "Fort Utah Massacre").  This event took place in 1849, and did not, IIRC, involve Bill Hickman:

• Wikipedia Article: Battle at Fort Utah
• Saints Unscripted Article: How a murder on the Provo River led to this Ute massacre (numerous good resources available in the description)
• Article by Phillip B Gottfredson: Battle Creek Canyon & Fort Utah Massacres 1848 to 1850
• Article by Joshua Bernhard: The Provo River Battle

I kept looking and found this blurb from Netflix:

Quote

Set in the 1857 American frontier, the upcoming limited series American Primeval {} follows different groups and individuals fighting to survive and gain control of the lands out West. Chief among them are the members of the Mormon Church. Fleeing widespread persecution, violence, and humiliation, they travel to Utah to build a safe space and stronghold. And their leader, Brigham Young, will do whatever it takes to secure the survival of his flock.

When actor Kim Coates (Bad Blood, Sons of Anarchy) got the call to play real-life historical figure Young, his answer was immediate. “It was the offer of a lifetime,” Coates tells Tudum. “I’d long wanted to work with [director] Pete Berg. I knew how difficult it was going to be, inhabiting this true historical figure. We actors like to throw around the phrase, ‘I’ve never played someone like this before,’ but I genuinely have never played a character like Brigham Young before, someone who people are immediately aware of just by their name.”

Coates immersed himself in research, reading two biographies on Young — Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet and The Prophet and the Reformer: The Letters of Brigham Young and Thomas L. Kane — as well as The Twenty-Seventh Wife, the story of Young’s wife who divorced him.

Coates adds, “I also spoke to two people in my own life, with whom I have a personal connection, who are longtime members of the Mormon Church. They opened their doors to me and were generous with their knowledge. That helped me to feel more like this man that I’m really nothing like in real life. I wanted to know all about Young, and it was a difficult journey at times.”
...
In playing a historical and religious figure, and particularly one who makes divisive decisions throughout the show’s narrative, Coates didn’t label his character a hero or villain. Like all characters in American Primeval, Young is fighting for his own survival and the survival of his people, no matter the cost. 

“As an actor, you have to make choices,” he says. “Things start at the top and filter down, and we mustn’t shy away from both the nastiness and the goodness in our history. And this particular story has some of both, and it has some lessons that we can and should learn from. But boy, it was tough to survive in 1857. I don’t know how anyone did.”

As Young seeks to cement the Mormons’ stronghold in Utah, a large part of his strategy revolves around Fort Bridger, owned by Jim Bridger (Shea Whigham). President James Buchanan and the US government, at odds with the Mormons and their growing size and influence, are closely monitoring the group. Fort Bridger is key to the US Army’s continued presence out West, providing food, lodging, and other necessary resources. Young is eager to buy Fort Bridger from its reluctant owner — meaning Coates shares a good chunk of screen time with Whigham.

"Young is fighting for his own survival and the survival of his people, no matter the cost."

Sounds like they are angling to implicate Brigham Young in the massacre.

This article makes it plain: Inside American Primeval, Taylor Kitsch and Betty Gilpin’s Bloody, Brutal Western Epic

Quote

Such visceral, violent realism helps set American Primeval, premiering January 9, apart. The show is inspired by real events, as the clashing ambitions and fears of different groups in the American West circa 1857 come to an explosive head. “It was a very lawless, wild spot in America,” Berg says.

Helming all six episodes of American Primeval, Berg settled on the Mountain Meadows Massacre as the series’ inciting tragedy. The first episode recreates the murder of hundreds of pioneers traveling from Missouri at the hands of Mormon soldiers, under orders from church president Brigham Young. This occurs as Indigenous nations including the Southern Paiutes of Utah and the Northwestern Shoshone fight for survival and security in the same territory the Mormons are encroaching on.
...
And indeed, the violence on American Primeval is unrelenting—bloody, messy, unusually graphic. “We wanted to try and achieve a certain level of intensity,” Berg says. “It’s not stylistic and visually appealing. It’s in your face and hard-hitting, which felt true to the time period—and certainly true to the story that we wanted to tell.” Characters kill each other with immediacy—but those moments are always rooted in a nuanced historical approach. With the Mormon storyline, for instance, Smith’s scripts illustrate how the group got to Utah in the first place, posing the question of why they committed that massacre before setting off a kind of free-for-all in the West.

"The first episode recreates the murder of hundreds of pioneers traveling from Missouri at the hands of Mormon soldiers, under orders from church president Brigham Young."

There it is.

More here: ‘American Primeval’: Netflix’s Upcoming Limited Series Sets January Premiere Date

Quote

Set in 1857, the series will be a dark and gritty retelling of the birth of the American West, featuring characters willing to fight and die to keep or control land. The production images reveal Kim Coates (Sons of Anarchy, Bad Blood) as Brigham Young, the leader of the Mormon Church and a man who will do whatever it takes to secure the survival of his persecuted followers—including enlisting his Mormon army, the Nauvoo Legion. 

More here: ‘American Primeval’: Betty Gilpin, Dane DeHaan, Shea Whigham, More Cast In Netflix Limited Series:

Quote

Tippett will portray James Wolsey, a Mormon man leading a militia of men who don’t possess the moral code they claim they do. 

Then there's this: American Primeval Netflix series production put on hold amid Hollywood writers’ and actors’ strike; Here’s everything we know

Quote

“Traveling West with her son, Sara joins a Mormon caravan headed in the same direction but bloody conflict erupts between the Native Americans and those claiming the land for themselves.”

Hmm.

And this:

Quote

Next, new fans can catch Lightfoot-Leon in “American Primeval,” a Taylor Kitsch-led miniseries for Netflix set in the American West that was shot in Santa Fe last year.

“That was again a very physical performance,” she says. “I play a Mormon wife who gets abducted. The story is based on this real massacre that happened in 1857. It’s about how it unravels, but you see people fighting for their lives, literally, but also for what they believe in.”

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 29, 2024 by smac97

[JVW]

It sucks if Netflix actually portrays the MMM as sanctioned by BY. Other than that, good or bad, I'm glad that the church is getting more pop culture stuff done by non-members. The other night my wife signed up for her Hallmark Christmas movie subscription and looks like Lifetime is highlighting a recently made show about some crazy Mormon man trying to Lifetime(TM) his wife. It made me smile to see it in the mix of the usual Lifetime stuff, in addition to what has been shared on this forum about other recent "Mormon" things like Heretic and the crazy swinger Hulu show.

Granted, there wasn't TV around for most of the time, but it took Catholics almost a couple thousand years to start getting bashed on and used thematically in cinema and TV productions. It only took our church a couple hundred years, so we're on a pretty quick track into mainstream consciousness. Hehe.

[webbles]

That netflix article also had this interesting blurb:

Quote

Coates learned that Young had famously piercing blue eyes and an intense stare. He was also shorter and heavier, so Coates gained weight for the role. The actor dyed his famously dark hair reddish blond and donned mutton chops after learning Young was unable to grow facial hair.

I'm not aware that Young was unable to grow facial hair.  Is this really true?

 

I also find it interesting that they talk about Young trying to buy Fort Bridger.  In 1855, the Saints took over Fort Bridger.  They also created Fort Supply nearby.  I don't believe Fort Bridger was "key to the US Army’s continued presence out West" since it wasn't even an army fort until the Utah War in 1857.

[JAHS]

20 minutes ago, webbles said:

That netflix article also had this interesting blurb:

I'm not aware that Young was unable to grow facial hair.  Is this really true?

 

I also find it interesting that they talk about Young trying to buy Fort Bridger.  In 1855, the Saints took over Fort Bridger.  They also created Fort Supply nearby.  I don't believe Fort Bridger was "key to the US Army’s continued presence out West" since it wasn't even an army fort until the Utah War in 1857.

Most of the photos I have seen show him with a full beard when he was older. Younger photos show him clean shaven.

[Teancum]

I look forward to the show because I enjoy stuff like this. That said, I think it wrong to simply tie MMM to orders from Brigham Young. Based on my studies of this there is little evidence to accuse him of ordering it. What he did to hide the facts about it afterwards is a different story.

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, JVW said:

Granted, there wasn't TV around for most of the time, but it took Catholics almost a couple thousand years to start getting bashed on and used thematically in cinema and TV productions. It only took our church a couple hundred years, so we're on a pretty quick track into mainstream consciousness. Hehe.

It's funny how most supernatural/horror shows have Catholicism. Protestants just don't have the cool stuff for fighting demons and vampires like we do (crucifix, holy water, exorcism, etc.)

This is a funny scene from Lost Boys:

 

[bluebell]

26 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

It's funny how most supernatural/horror shows have Catholicism. Protestants just don't have the cool stuff for fighting demons and vampires like we do (crucifix, holy water, exorcism, etc.)

This is a funny scene from Lost Boys:

 

It's sad though how most of the time when 'satan' comes for someone, they portray it through the venue of Catholicism.  It's made it so I can't see a crucifix without thinking of horror movies.

[Pyreaux]

Well, the last time Netflix did a historical story, that revolved around Mormonism, they did a good job. Murder Among the Mormons (2021), Jared Hess' miniseries following Mark Hofmann (a ton of VHS news footage in chronological order, courtesy of Hoffman, who liked recording all the news about himself). It consists of three episodes. The first two episodes makes it seem like Hoffman is the obvious victim targeted by powerful forces in the church trying to kill him for exposing the truth... Then... There was the last episode, the other shoe drops, that Hofmann was the villain, a fraudster, and all that stuff they built up and made you think the church was somehow behind it was wrong and even silly. They completely preyed on their viewer's general ignorance, suspicion and stereotypes around the church that just assumes the worst possibility presented to them must be true, the two serve to hook and pull them in, just to pull the rug out from under them in the third episode, vindicate the church, in a way I could only imagine how powerful an impact it would be if you never knew about Mark Hofmann before.

Edited October 30, 2024 by Pyreaux

[Calm]

I am not pulling up anything but articles about the series for “James Wolsey” and “Mormon”. If they are portraying Young as ordering the massacre, using a fictional character for the militia leader when their names were well know for the MMM and everyone else is fictional, plus nonstop violence…it doesn’t sound particularly accurate.
 

”Smith’s scripts illustrate how the group got to Utah in the first place, posing the question of why they committed that massacre before setting off a kind of free-for-all in the West.”

Wonder if they bothered to read Turley’s book.

 

Edited December 13, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

9 hours ago, smac97 said:

Also, the reference to "Wild Bill Hickman, an Utah frontiersman and lawmaker who led attacks on the Timpanogos people in Rock Canyon," seems a bit out of place for a story set in 1857.  This is pretty clearly a reference to the "Battle at Fort Utah" (a/k/a the "Provo River Massacre" or "Fort Utah Massacre").  This event took place in 1849, and did not, IIRC, involve Bill Hickman:

Maybe they do flashbacks as part of the story of how “the group got to Utah”.

[Calm]

From wiki:

Quote

With the arrival of the Mormon pioneers in 1847, disputes arose between Bridger and the new settlers. By 1853, a militia of Mormons was sent to arrest him for selling alcohol and firearms to the Native Americans, a violation of Federal Law.^[7] He escaped capture and temporarily returned to the East. Near the existing fort, the Mormons established their own Fort Supply the same year. In 1855, Mormons took over Fort Bridger, reportedly having bought it for $8,000 in gold coins.^[8] The Mormons claimed, over Bridger's denials, they had purchased the fort from Vasquez. There was a deed dated August 3, 1855, recorded October 21, 1858, in Salt Lake City in Records Book B. p. 128, that ostensibly sold Fort Bridger to the LDS Church. Bridger and Vasquez's names were signed by H. F. Morrell in the presence of Alinerin Grow and William Adams Hickman, purportedly pursuant to a power of attorney. Bridger was absent from the area in 1855, acting as guide for Sir St George Gore

Maybe they added a massacre to Hickman’s account to make the character more interesting or the story more cohesive. 
 

wiki for Hickman

Quote

 

Hickman was involved in the Aiken massacre of five travelers in 1857 when he killed Horace Bucklin under direct orders from Young.^[4]

Hickman was an important figure in the Utah War. He torched Fort Bridger and numerous supply trains of the Federal Army.

 

Edited October 30, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

9 hours ago, smac97 said:

Also, the reference to "Wild Bill Hickman, a Utah frontiersman and lawmaker who led attacks on the Timpanogos people in Rock Canyon," seems a bit out of place for a story set in 1857.  This is pretty clearly a reference to the "Battle at Fort Utah" (a/k/a the "Provo River Massacre" or "Fort Utah Massacre").  This event took place in 1849, and did not, IIRC, involve Bill Hickman:

Wiki:

Quote

Hickman was part of the militia that carried out genocidal acts against the Timpanogos during the Battle at Fort Utah. They were under orders to kill all the men and take the women and children captive. General Daniel H. Wellshad Antonga Black Hawk lead a segment of the militia, including Hickman, up Rock Canyon to attack those who were trying to escape. They found the Timpanogos chief, Old Elk, dead in one of the teepees. According to Hickman, Jim Bridger had offered a $100 reward for Old Elk's head. Hickman chopped off Old Elk's head and brought it back to Fort Utah. There, he hung Old Elk's head by its hair from the walls of the roof. Dr. Blake saw the head, and ordered more heads to be chopped off. Around 50 heads were piled in boxes for two weeks, next to where they kept the prisoners. They were then delivered to Salt Lake City.^[5]Some ghost stories have circulated about the victims' ghosts haunting Rock Canyon.^[6

 

[Calm]

More massacre, plenty of writing material…

Since the Netflix is claiming Young ordered MMM, I wonder if they will ignore he apparently sent word 3 times that his cattle hadn’t been stolen.

This stuff makes me ill.  Hope it’s not accurate.  Interesting that the only one coming off halfway decent to begin with at least is Brigham who is saying they need to feel the starving Indians.

https://blackhawkproductions.com/fortutah.htm

The names of the militia and those leading the slaughters as well as others are apparently known. Why create a fictional James Wolsey?  Banner of Heaven all over again perhaps. 
 

“Daniel H. Wells, member First Presedency of the LDS Church, issued Special Order No. 1 a war-order to the Nauvo Legion allerting them to prepare to exterminate the Timpanogos Nation, 1850. Source: Battle at Fort Utah. (2024, August 1). In Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_at_Fort_Utah”

Edited October 30, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

The Mormon vigilantes greedily helped themselves taking the belongings from the dead, while Bill Hickman, with knife in hand, hacked Old Elk's head off his frozen body. He said Jim Bridger had offered him a hundred dollars for the head. Old Elk's wife refused to be taken captive . She broke free and ran for her life. She scaled the steep cliffs, but while doing so, she either jumped or slipped and fell to her death. Hence the Mormon s disrespectfully dubbed the canyon Squaw Peak which is located above the Provo LDS Temple . It is a name that endures to this day

Interesting as that wasn’t the story I heard about how it got the name. 

[Calm]

https://www.deseret.com/2017/11/10/20636026/utah-group-looks-to-rename-squaw-peak-says-term-belittles-native-american-women/#:~:text=The most common story is,history professor Jay Buckley said.

Says the story may not be historical

Would be nice if they renamed it. 

[webbles]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

https://www.deseret.com/2017/11/10/20636026/utah-group-looks-to-rename-squaw-peak-says-term-belittles-native-american-women/#:~:text=The most common story is,history professor Jay Buckley said.

Says the story may not be historical

Would be nice if they renamed it. 

It was renamed in 2022.  It is now officially Kyhv Peak.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyhv_Peak and https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/2022/sep/09/provos-squaw-peak-renamed-to-kyhv-peak/

 

[bluebell]

We have a pass in the mountains outside of town that's call Dead Indian.  I've never heard anyone say anything derogatory about it but a little further along that highway you go by Dead Swede campground so maybe everyone thinks it's all even.  

[smac97]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Wiki:

Quote

Hickman was part of the militia that carried out genocidal acts against the Timpanogos during the Battle at Fort Utah. They were under orders to kill all the men and take the women and children captive. General Daniel H. Wellshad Antonga Black Hawk lead a segment of the militia, including Hickman, up Rock Canyon to attack those who were trying to escape. They found the Timpanogos chief, Old Elk, dead in one of the teepees. According to Hickman, Jim Bridger had offered a $100 reward for Old Elk's head. Hickman chopped off Old Elk's head and brought it back to Fort Utah. There, he hung Old Elk's head by its hair from the walls of the roof. Dr. Blake saw the head, and ordered more heads to be chopped off. Around 50 heads were piled in boxes for two weeks, next to where they kept the prisoners. They were then delivered to Salt Lake City.^[5]Some ghost stories have circulated about the victims' ghosts haunting Rock Canyon.^[6

 

Yes, it appears I was mistaken.  Bill Hickman wrote a biography in 1872: 

Brigham's Destroying Angel: Being the Life, Confession, and Startling Disclosures of the Notorious Bill Hickman, the Danite Chief of Utah

In pp. 57-70 he describes the event in quite a big of detail.  The overall credibility of Hickman's narrative appears to be in some dispute.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

3 hours ago, webbles said:

It was renamed in 2022.  It is now officially Kyhv Peak.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyhv_Peak and https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/2022/sep/09/provos-squaw-peak-renamed-to-kyhv-peak/

 

Excellent. I have not been paying close enough attention to the local community lately it seems.  I hadn’t noticed Provo High School had moved either. No doubt some other stuff (did notice Provo was unfortunately flying the old Utah flag, I think the two mountain flags would look good together). I was thinking it was odd it hadn’t been changed yet.  Either my husband doesn’t know or long term use (born in Provo, raised in Orem) makes the old name a hard habit to break. 

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, smac97 said:

In pp. 57-70 he describes the event in quite a big of detail.  The overall credibility of Hickman's narrative appears to be in some dispute.

 

It certainly came in handy for keeping him out of jail. 

[The Nehor]

I doubt Brigham Young ordered the attack. He was trying to tamp down tensions at the time and secure some kind of deal with the US Army. The last thing he needed was a provocative attack. He was, of course, heavily involved in the cover up.

[The Nehor]

I actually approve of the graphic violence. Sanitized TV and movie violence downplay how horrible conflict can be. It should be uncomfortable to watch.

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I actually approve of the graphic violence. Sanitized TV and movie violence downplay how horrible conflict can be. It should be uncomfortable to watch.

I don’t have a problem with it as long as it doesn’t inflate the likely reality. 

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t have a problem with it as long as it doesn’t inflate the likely reality. 

Or glorify it.  Or become gratuitous.

[smac97]

33 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I actually approve of the graphic violence. Sanitized TV and movie violence downplay how horrible conflict can be. It should be uncomfortable to watch.

I'm sort of ambivalent about this.  Part of me thinks that pervasive graphic violence on TV and in movies has a desensitizing effect, such that all the blood 'n gore makes us less attuned to "how horrible conflict can be."

Horror movies.  Zombie movies / TV shows.  Game of Thrones / House of the Dragon / The Boys / The Witcher / The Wire / Boardwalk Empire.  I don't think these things are showing us "graphic violence" with noble intentions, but rather to garner controversy, gin up social media attention, and - of course - make money.  I can't help but wonder if the graphic violence is sowing seeds of indifference to and disregard of the real-world effects of violence, perhaps even to the extent of wanting to foment cynicism and misanthropy.

Consider also "graphic" depictions of, say, sexual assault or abuse.  Of women.  Of children.  Are non-graphic depictions of this in entertainment media "sanitiz{ing} ... how horrible" such evil behavior is?  Or might it be that graphic depictions of this in entertainment media are often gratuitous?  Might it actually result in desensitization?  Or even worse, titillation?

I guess in the main, I don't really trust modern entertainment companies to have noble intentions when trafficking in graphic violence.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 30, 2024 by smac97