Christ in Gethsemane

[Tacenda]

On 11/2/2024 at 1:10 PM, Stargazer said:

One message in October's General Conference deeply affected me about these vicissitudes. It was "Mortality Works!" by Elder Hales.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2024/10/43hales?lang=eng

He spoke of an elderly sister he had known and ministered to, who had had a lot of bad breaks in life. Elder Hales said:

My late wife had to deal with a fair bit of problems in her life. Towards the end, she was dealing with colon cancer, and then one day had to go to the hospital because things had suddenly become worse. I was unable to be with her when she got the word that she was terminal, but when I showed up she delivered the news to me with a smile! She never faltered in her conviction that things were going the way they were supposed to, and was actually looking forward to the work she knew she would be doing "in the next place." Her conviction that her passing had just as much importance as her living had been was inspirational to me. 

I remember you posting on this board and some of us commenting back and forth during the time she was passing. I'm sorry you lost her to colon cancer, but glad you met someone to complete life with.

Edited November 3, 2024 by Tacenda

[GoCeltics]

On 11/1/2024 at 6:22 PM, JVW said:

Moroni was very self-conscious about his writing. Here are a few quotes about it:
 

And after God reminds him of his cross to bear and that Christ overcame the world, this is how his focus changes (at the tail end of the chapter)

It's a great chapter, I highly recommend it, the first half is reminiscent of Hebrews 11 and I reference both chapters (Hebrews 11 and Ether 7) quite frequently in conversation. Anytime I'm talking about faith, weakness, miracles, the priesthood, and apparently even when talking about Christ's sacrifice in the garden and on the cross.

Ether 12:24

... writing like unto the brother of Jared, for thou madest him that the things which he wrote were mighty even as thou art, unto the overpowering of man to read them.

Aside from the brother of Jared, has anyone else written mighty words comparable to the mightiness of God?

 

[JVW]

On 11/4/2024 at 9:17 AM, GoCeltics said:

Ether 12:24

... writing like unto the brother of Jared, for thou madest him that the things which he wrote were mighty even as thou art, unto the overpowering of man to read them.

Aside from the brother of Jared, has anyone else written mighty words comparable to the mightiness of God?

 

I mean, it's my personal opinion, but I'm a big fan of Isaiah and John the Beloved. What do you think? Who would you say has written mighty words?

[Stargazer]

On 11/4/2024 at 4:17 PM, GoCeltics said:

Ether 12:24

... writing like unto the brother of Jared, for thou madest him that the things which he wrote were mighty even as thou art, unto the overpowering of man to read them.

Aside from the brother of Jared, has anyone else written mighty words comparable to the mightiness of God?

 

If God were to weigh in to write His own words, rather than through his intermediaries, His prophets, and others whom He has inspired, His words would overcome them all. His words would make all the words that have ever been written by man or woman look like kindergarten fingerpainting.  Which may be why He doesn't do this. 

[GoCeltics]

On 11/5/2024 at 11:48 AM, JVW said:

I mean, it's my personal opinion, but I'm a big fan of Isaiah and John the Beloved. What do you think? Who would you say has written mighty words?

It depends on what "words overpowering man when read" means by Ether.

[GoCeltics]

19 hours ago, Stargazer said:

If God were to weigh in to write His own words, rather than through his intermediaries, His prophets, and others whom He has inspired, His words would overcome them all.

How have the Ten Commandments (written by God) overcome you, in the same way the words of the brother of Jared might have, if they had been known to you?

[Stargazer]

4 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

How have the Ten Commandments (written by God) overcome you, in the same way the words of the brother of Jared might have, if they had been known to you?

An interesting question! "Thou shalt not..." and so on does not quite approach what I was referring to. I don't think we have a lot of direct wordage from God. 

I'm thinking more along the lines of what Jesus had to say -- but as spoken by him and not as reproduced years and decades after he spoke. Though it's pretty powerful even so. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

the Ten Commandments (written by God)

Or were they?

https://www.jtsa.edu/torah/who-wrote-the-ten-commandments/

Quote

 

Other interpreters, however, maintain that Moses, not God, wrote the second set of tablets (see, for example, Exodus Rabbah47:2). These interpreters explain the contradiction between 34:1 and 34:28 by suggesting that in verse 1 God does not intend literally that He will write the second set, but that Moses will do so on His behalf. According to this reading, the verb back in 34:1 was in the first person only to show that God approves what Moses writes or that God provides Moses strength to carry out the writing. (On these interpreters, see Saul Lieberman, Hellenism in Jewish Palestine,80–82, and Menahem Kasher, Torah Shelemah,22:126–27.) Grammatically, this is a stronger interpretation: Moses took on what was originally supposed to be God’s role, and he participated in place of God in producing the words on the tablets the Israelites received.

Even according to the simplest reading of 34:1, the second set of tablets was to result from cooperation between Moses (who carved the tablets out of stone) and God (who was supposed to write on them). But 34:28 goes further: it tells us that both the tablets and the writing are the work of Moses.

 

 

[JVW]

23 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

It depends on what "words overpowering man when read" means by Ether.

I think Moroni was just complimenting one of his favorite authors. Ultimately, what words one finds powerful depend on the state of being of the one reading them. There are people who have been vastly illuminated by the words of the Book of Mormon, and others find no value in them. Both people will have read the words of the brother of Jared, at least some of them (maybe not the ones Moroni was referring to).

My wife doesn't like the words of Paul at all, every time she reads any of his words she kind of rolls her eyes a little bit. But there are a lot of Paul's writings that I have found to be quite moving. If I wanted to compliment Paul I could describe his words as being overpowering. I have literally been overpowered by the words of Isaiah many years ago, on a verse that most would consider unremarkable.

[Stargazer]

21 hours ago, JVW said:

I think Moroni was just complimenting one of his favorite authors. Ultimately, what words one finds powerful depend on the state of being of the one reading them. There are people who have been vastly illuminated by the words of the Book of Mormon, and others find no value in them. Both people will have read the words of the brother of Jared, at least some of them (maybe not the ones Moroni was referring to).

My wife doesn't like the words of Paul at all, every time she reads any of his words she kind of rolls her eyes a little bit. But there are a lot of Paul's writings that I have found to be quite moving. If I wanted to compliment Paul I could describe his words as being overpowering. I have literally been overpowered by the words of Isaiah many years ago, on a verse that most would consider unremarkable.

I think we've all run into those times when we read a passage of scripture that we have read many times before, but for some reason the message of the old but newly read text comes through to us as "more powerful" than ever before.