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Just now, california boy said:

In other news, rumor has it that the Church leaders are considering banning grandma's apple pie because it has found to be habit forming.  Ice cream is also being considered.  The two together will be a sure sign of apostasy.

I get the humor- 

But in all seriousness. What if there was an announcement next weekend, stating that we were going to do an overhaul based on the word of wisdom, and eliminate all commonly addictive substances, including sugar? Like if we really cared about our bodies and treated them like temples, wouldn’t we all be exercising, eating more vegetables, eliminating preservatives, planting gardens, drinking more water, and certainly not providing processed sugary snacks at every church event? 
Would we be supportive of putting Botox poison in our faces? Risking infection with extreme surgeries? 

We certainly are not premier examples of great health in our church.  There are a lot of things that we could do that would demonstrate respect for the body if we really truly have testimony about the word of wisdom. 
 

There is no room for me to judge others. 

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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I get the humor- 

But in all seriousness. What if there was an announcement next weekend, stating that we were going to do an overhaul based on the word of wisdom, and eliminate all commonly addictive substances, including sugar? Like if we really cared about our bodies and treated them like temples, wouldn’t we all be exercising, eating more vegetables, eliminating preservatives, planting gardens, drinking more water, and certainly not providing processed sugary snacks at every church event? 
Would we be supportive of putting Botox poison in our faces? Risking infection with extreme surgeries? 

We certainly are not premier examples of great health in our church.  There are a lot of things that we could do that would demonstrate respect for the body if we really truly have testimony about the word of wisdom. 
 

There is no room for me to judge others. 

I love how the very beginning of section 89 says that the word of wisdom is adapted for the weakest of saints.

To me that implies that it’s not supposed to be just about health. It was given with our weaknesses in mind. Our weakest weaknesses even.

A new law of health that didn’t take those weaknesses into consideration would be a different animal than what we have now. But maybe you’re saying we have progressed to the point where our weaknesses should not be a stumbling block anymore?

 

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19 minutes ago, bluebell said:

A new law of health that didn’t take those weaknesses into consideration would be a different animal than what we have now. But maybe you’re saying we have progressed to the point where our weaknesses should not be a stumbling block anymore?

I don’t want any new laws. I just want the ones that stand to make sense.

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On 9/19/2024 at 6:14 PM, Malc said:

In the mid 70s I was told I could not have a Temple Recommend until I shaved off the beard that I had had for almost my entire adult life.

I went back the next day, clean shaven, and my wife cried herself to sleep that night.

Same thing happened to me in the mid 80s.  I didn’t shave.  When, a month or so later, the SP called me to be the EQP, I told him I didn’t have a TR, he said he knew that as he had spoken to my Bishop.  He gave me a TR interview, signed the recommend and told me to take it to the Bishop to sign.  I had the beard for my entire tenure as EQP.

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5 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Same thing happened to me in the mid 80s.  I didn’t shave.  When, a month or so later, the SP called me to be the EQP, I told him I didn’t have a TR, he said he knew that as he had spoken to my Bishop.  He gave me a TR interview, signed the recommend and told me to take it to the Bishop to sign.  I had the beard for my entire tenure as EQP.

My husband's sister's husband didn't shave his mustache when he was called to be bishop. 

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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I get the humor- 

But in all seriousness. What if there was an announcement next weekend, stating that we were going to do an overhaul based on the word of wisdom, and eliminate all commonly addictive substances, including sugar?

It would be interesting because it would be the opposite direction from what they just did with For the Strength of Youth. And before anyone misuderstands I'm not saying FSoY was a free for all - I'm saying the change was encouraging people to go directly to God for those answers of how to behave rather than with the change you talk about is having the leaders dictate. What would be even more interesting is that would suggests the teens are trusted more than the adults. 

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Like if we really cared about our bodies and treated them like temples, wouldn’t we all be exercising, eating more vegetables, eliminating preservatives, planting gardens, drinking more water, and certainly not providing processed sugary snacks at every church event? 
Would we be supportive of putting Botox poison in our faces? Risking infection with extreme surgeries? 

We certainly are not premier examples of great health in our church.  There are a lot of things that we could do that would demonstrate respect for the body if we really truly have testimony about the word of wisdom. 
 

There is no room for me to judge others. 

 

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13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

While I agree I have a lower standard. Can we just revise the Word of Wisdom so someone reading it for the first time knows what leaders and members actually expect if you try to keep it? If I read it cold I would think it means be a vegetarian except in emergencies or when seasonally allowed, beer is good for you, hot beverages are all bad, recreational marijuana edibles seem fine, and that grain products should be the staple of my diet. Then I show up for a ward summer barbeque………and am confused by the meat and they are confused by the case of beer I brought.

Don’t judge my bare shoulder sundress I wear to the picnic and I won’t judge your carnivorous ways, lol. 
 

Sometimes the rules seem a bit arbitrary. 

Edited by Peacefully
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10 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Don’t judge my bare shoulder sundress I wear to the picnic and I won’t judge your carnivorous ways, lol. 
 

Sometimes the rules seem a bit arbitrary. 

I love tanktops. I’ll give up meat if I can wear those again.

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1 hour ago, Peacefully said:

Sometimes the rules seem a bit arbitrary

They are quite. 

 

1 hour ago, Rain said:

would be interesting because it would be the opposite direction from what they just did with For the Strength of Youth.

Yes!! And with Home teaching.  “do it your way. Follow the spirit. Talk to God. Find out how HE wants YOU to take care of your body. And do it.” 

If I actually listen to God with regards to how to treat my body, rather than hyper focusing on whether or not I’m drinking coffee, now that I think about it, there is a lot that I would do differently, and I know would be capable of it.  I’ve been raised to ensure that I don’t smoke drink and drink tea or coffee and then I’m good with God.  🤨

 

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When some people in my little branch in Scotland complained to the Branch President about the smell of tobacco smoke from a couple of the members, he replied that he was glad that his own sins were not so easily detected.

As they say in Scotland, that put their (the complainers') gas on a peep!

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8 hours ago, california boy said:

In other news, rumor has it that the Church leaders are considering banning grandma's apple pie because it has found to be habit forming.  Ice cream is also being considered.  The two together will be a sure sign of apostasy.

Since my grandmas died 65+ years ago, I will happily be obedient to the letter of the law. Anyway, my reputation as an apostate is well enough established that I can't imagine anything that would lower my status.

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Just dropping this here for FYI…

Excessive alcohol use a risk cancer for at least 6 types of cancer.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cancer-deaths-alcohol-report/

Quote

While the decline in cancer deaths are attributable to lower smoking rates, treatment improvements and earlier detection, there's still a risk factor that the authors warn isn't as well known: alcohol.

Excessive levels of alcohol consumption increase the risk for six different types of cancer, according to the report, including: 

breast cancer

colorectal cancer

liver cancer

stomach cancer

certain types of head and neck cancer

esophageal squamous cell carcinoma

"In the U.S., 5.4% of cancers were attributed to alcohol consumption in 2019, the most recent year for which data are available," a news release for the report states. "Research has shown an association between the degree of alcohol consumed during pregnancy and the likelihood of the child developing leukemia after birth, with both moderate and high levels of drinking during pregnancy increasing the risk."

The report also notes alcohol intake at an earlier age can increase cancer risk later in life.

On "CBS Mornings" Thursday, Dr. Céline Gounder, CBS News medical contributor and editor-at-large for public health at KFF Health News, said "excessive levels of alcohol" equates to about three or more drinks per day for women and four or more drink per day for men. 

Though other studies have shown there is no "safe amount" of alcohol, she added, particularly if you have underlying medical conditions.

"If you don't drink, don't start drinking. And then if you do drink, really try to keep it within moderation," she said.

 

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Sometimes I wonder if all of our back and forth really changes anyone's mind or makes a difference.  I have to say, this discussion has actually help me decide that I should be drinking less Coke Zero and more coffee.  I know I drink too much Coke Zero, and I don't really drink coffee.  Other than this vice, I have a pretty healthy diet, go to the gym and ride my bike regularly.  Pretty healthy lifestyle.  I weigh exactly the same weight that I weighed in high school.  I have always kinda rationalized that just this one vice isn't so bad.  But maybe that is what everyone says about doing something they know is not good for them.  So I started choosing coffee at those times when I would be reaching for a Coke.  It is getting a little bit to get used to it, but I think it is helping.  Still not that into hot coffee, but I do like it iced with nothing added and I am drinking less Coke Zero.

Wondering what your thoughts are on this.  Is this a step better towards a more healthy diet or do you think it doesn't really change things and I should stick to the Coke Zero?

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10 minutes ago, california boy said:

Sometimes I wonder if all of our back and forth really changes anyone's mind or makes a difference.  I have to say, this discussion has actually help me decide that I should be drinking less Coke Zero and more coffee.  I know I drink too much Coke Zero, and I don't really drink coffee.  Other than this vice, I have a pretty healthy diet, go to the gym and ride my bike regularly.  Pretty healthy lifestyle.  I weigh exactly the same weight that I weighed in high school.  I have always kinda rationalized that just this one vice isn't so bad.  But maybe that is what everyone says about doing something they know is not good for them.  So I started choosing coffee at those times when I would be reaching for a Coke.  It is getting a little bit to get used to it, but I think it is helping.  Still not that into hot coffee, but I do like it iced with nothing added and I am drinking less Coke Zero.

Wondering what your thoughts are on this.  Is this a step better towards a more healthy diet or do you think it doesn't really change things and I should stick to the Coke Zero?

What is it about the Coke Zero that has you thinking you should drink less of it?  Or is it not so much about the Coke Zero specifically, but the amount that you’re drinking?

Random memory - I have struggled with nausea most of my adult life.   Years ago, my doc prescribed Coke syrup for it.  I filled the prescription at the pharmacy.  

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19 minutes ago, california boy said:

Wondering what your thoughts are on this.  Is this a step better towards a more healthy diet or do you think it doesn't really change things and I should stick to the Coke Zero?

When are you drinking it?  If after lunch, then I don’t think of it as a step towards a healthy diet, unless you are drinking the same amount of caffeine. 

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33 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

What is it about the Coke Zero that has you thinking you should drink less of it?  Or is it not so much about the Coke Zero specifically, but the amount that you’re drinking?

Random memory - I have struggled with nausea most of my adult life.   Years ago, my doc prescribed Coke syrup for it.  I filled the prescription at the pharmacy.  

It is soda in general.  Since it is the only soda I drink, it is the one I am focused on.  I have never read an article that claimed drinking soda and Coke Zero is good for you.  On the other hand, I have read a lot that points out several health benefits for drinking coffee.  I drink about 2-3 cans a day.  I think I need to cut that down.

My first job in high school was working at a restaurant.  We occasionally had customers ask for some coke syrup for medical reasons.  Not sure if that is still done.  As I understand it, Coke syrup was believed to calm down stomach issues.  

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34 minutes ago, Calm said:

When are you drinking it?  If after lunch, then I don’t think of it as a step towards a healthy diet, unless you are drinking the same amount of caffeine. 

I drink it mostly with lunch and dinner.  Sometimes in the late morning.  I have been substituting coffee during those same time periods.  

Can you give me more of a reason why you think it is not a step towards a healthy diet?  This decision is totally driven by science and what I have been reading.  So really curious to read your reasons behind your statement.

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54 minutes ago, california boy said:

Sometimes I wonder if all of our back and forth really changes anyone's mind or makes a difference.  I have to say, this discussion has actually help me decide that I should be drinking less Coke Zero and more coffee.  I know I drink too much Coke Zero, and I don't really drink coffee.  Other than this vice, I have a pretty healthy diet, go to the gym and ride my bike regularly.  Pretty healthy lifestyle.  I weigh exactly the same weight that I weighed in high school.  I have always kinda rationalized that just this one vice isn't so bad.  But maybe that is what everyone says about doing something they know is not good for them.  So I started choosing coffee at those times when I would be reaching for a Coke.  It is getting a little bit to get used to it, but I think it is helping.  Still not that into hot coffee, but I do like it iced with nothing added and I am drinking less Coke Zero.

Wondering what your thoughts are on this.  Is this a step better towards a more healthy diet or do you think it doesn't really change things and I should stick to the Coke Zero?

In my heart of hearts, I feel like coffee and tea are more natural and therefore better for the body than soft drinks, but I don’t know that as a scientific fact. I think everything in moderation is a good way to live. I follow the WOW because that is what the church teaches and it allows me access to the temple, but the only disallowed substances I feel are truly harmful are tobacco and non-medically approved drugs. Alcohol in moderation doesn’t bother me but I imagine there would be less alcoholics if we all followed the WOW and never touched it but that’s like pie in the sky thinking. 

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11 minutes ago, california boy said:

I drink it mostly with lunch and dinner.  Sometimes in the late morning.  I have been substituting coffee during those same time periods.  

Can you give me more of a reason why you think it is not a step towards a healthy diet?  This decision is totally driven by science and what I have been reading.  So really curious to read your reasons behind your statement.

Lunch and morning is fine.  Dinner is an issue. Caffeine less than ten hours before bedtime will affect sleep architecture…even if you have no issue going to sleep within 5, 10 minutes of bedtime, you will not have as deep as sleep which can lead to numerous health issues if chronic.   I can’t remember if it affects rem sleep like alcohol does, but I wouldn’t be surprised. 

There is also some evidence it can interfere with your waking up process if you drink it too early, I can’t remember how long…maybe 1 1/2 hours.  If you are interested, I will look it up.  Caffeine increases cortisol, so timing is rather important. Chronically elevated levels can lead to inflammation, which means problems with everything (or so it seems today), but especially diabetes, weight gain, heart issues and much, much more.

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, Calm said:

Lunch and morning is fine.  Dinner is an issue. Caffeine less than ten hours before bedtime will affect sleep architecture…even if you have no issue going to sleep within 5, 10 minutes of bedtime, you will not have as deep as sleep which can lead to numerous health issues if chronic.   I can’t remember if it affects rem sleep like alcohol does, but I wouldn’t be surprised. 

There is also some evidence it can interfere with your waking up process if you drink it too early, I can’t remember how long…maybe 1 1/2 hours.  If you are interested, I will look it up.  Caffeine increases cortisol, so timing is rather important. Chronically elevated levels can lead to inflammation, which means problems with everything (or so it seems today), but especially diabetes, weight gain, heart issues and much, much more.

This might work for me.  I don't drink either coffee or Coke when I first wake up.  It is at least couple of hours later.  And I am less likely to have a coffee in the evening than Coke, so maybe this will work better for me.  The biggest problem is probably going to be that I do like Coke Zero better than coffee, so if there isn't that big of difference between the two, I would probably slide back to the Coke.

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Just after posting, I ran across this article in the San Francisco Standard talking about a caffeine pill you take before going to bed.  It has a time release caffeine that helps in waking up fully alert and not so groggy in the morning.  From the article

Quote

 

But are any of these supplements backed by legitimate science? A 2021 study by the B Sync folk published in Nature analyzed the effect of time-delayed nighttime caffeine on intentionally sleep-deprived men and found “improved behavioral, cognitive, emotional, and physical levels.”

 

I am the kind of guy that when I wake up, I am fully awake so probably not something I am interested in.  But something to add to the mix of what we have been talking about.

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14 minutes ago, california boy said:

Just after posting, I ran across this article in the San Francisco Standard talking about a caffeine pill you take before going to bed.  It has a time release caffeine that helps in waking up fully alert and not so groggy in the morning.  From the article

I am the kind of guy that when I wake up, I am fully awake so probably not something I am interested in.  But something to add to the mix of what we have been talking about.

A lot of this stuff is relatively new except for the ten hours before bedtime. I have know that advice for ages it seems and always knew for me it was much longer.  Earlier this year I drank some flavored coconut water not realizing it had caffeine (it was not on the Amazon listing, I should have known better but really wanted a nice tasting coconut water and it was highly recommended) and clocked it at 20 hours before my brain lost that awake feeling…which felt good, but not exactly useful in the middle of the night.

Anyway….back to the science. I am going to be very interested when they are able to do massive numbers of brain studies because the cost and time involved drops and therefore can get a better idea of all the variables. 
 

Until then given the massive effect of sleep on everything in your body and mind and how many things in our environment are now set up to disrupt the natural clock (electrical lighting everywhere is a big deal), erring on the side of caution with caffeine is wise imo.

 

Hmmm…massive seems to be my new favorite word.

Edited by Calm
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