Difficuld.

[Dario_M]

10 hours ago, rpn said:

Sounds like OP would benefit from Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (which almost all therapists claim they do, but few actually do with fidelity).  It teaches how to think healthy, which eliminates the distortions that interfere with figuring things out.    You can find all the exercises in Dr. David Burns' "Feeling Good" or newer, but IMHO not better "Feeling Great".   There is also a lite version online at htpps://www/ecouch.com.au  

I'm on a waiting list for the moment. And i don't know what kind of therapy i will get. I don't know or Cognitive behavioral therapy will work. We will see. So far the only thing that works for me a bit is my medication. For the rest anything did helped me so far. Well..writing this all down helps a bit though. 

 

10 hours ago, rpn said:

Glycine is useful for getting to sleep. 

Lorazepam as well i rather take that. And even then sleeping is hard for me. It's just because i'm depressed. People who are depressed never sleep much. Taking care of myself is a struggle. Getting in to the shower is a struggle. I look like a vagabund. At least i have my boyfriend and he takes care of me. Cooking meals for me. Otherwise i wouldn't even done the effort to eat. 

Edited September 20 by Dario_M

[rpn]

What I was saying is that you can get started using the resources I named even before you get a therapist.   CBT and the exercises are about teaching you how to think healthy.  If you  follow the exercises as outlined, you can learn that yourself as much as you can while you are waiting.  

[Dario_M]

3 hours ago, rpn said:

What I was saying is that you can get started using the resources I named even before you get a therapist.   CBT and the exercises are about teaching you how to think healthy.  If you  follow the exercises as outlined, you can learn that yourself as much as you can while you are waiting.  

Yeah...😮‍💨 you know what, on hard times i'm just gonna swallow more pills. That's easer. But thanks anyhow. 

Edited September 20 by Dario_M

[rpn]

3 hours ago, Dario_M said:

swallow more pills. That's easer

Not really.  Only in your momentary imagination, perhaps.  But yes, your choice.  

[MustardSeed]

37 minutes ago, rpn said:

Not really.  Only in your momentary imagination, perhaps.  But yes, your choice.  

I’m a therapist and I agree with your suggestion.  Some of my own clients won’t do the work required, it’s really too bad.  The ones who do, they get better.  All you can do is invite. Maybe it will inspire someone else ❤️

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Yeah...😮‍💨 you know what, on hard times i'm just gonna swallow more pills. That's easer. But thanks anyhow. 

When I am really depressed that is what I feel like, but after 50 years of living with chronic depression, sometimes quite extreme, pills often don’t improve life, they are not a cure, at best for many, they maintain a certain level.  And they often stop working as well or even back fire.  Plus tons of side effects that may not bother you when younger, but wear you down when you are older.

Pills can make it possible to do the work to have a better life, but they aren’t likely to give it to you.

Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones who just needs to find the right med for happiness to come to you.  I am not.  In every case but one, medication has kept me going for a few years at most before backfiring and the one med that is still working for me is making it impossible for me to lose weight, kills my libido and my creativity and makes me nauseous if I miss a dose for an hour or two and a full out panic attack, I am going to die after 16 hours off of it these days where even ten years ago if I wanted to go cold turkey and take a vacation from it, it would be an uncomfortable three days, but not much more than the flu.   It is so worth it to work on things when you can when you are younger because it gets harder as you get older.  There are so many things .i wish I could convey to my younger self, especially don’t put stuff off thinking there will be a better time, a less stressful time, a time it won’t be so hard to ask others for help.

Using therapy to help make drugs more effective and yourself less dependent so that when you are older you are not a slave to drugs that do an adequate job, but at a high cost is wise.  I hope you reconsider your choice when you get to a place where you have enough energy and mental breathing space to consider something more than just medication.  You already know that exercise helps after all.  Therapy done right is like exercise for the brain.  I get that it has to come at the right time and with the right person and that is hard to get to; I have done it seriously four times in my life.  The first was very helpful; the second was useless and aggravating; the third was very helpful in some ways, not so much in others; the fourth made me feel better someone was listening, but nothing changed.  It is worth it though to stay open to the idea.

Even more important imo is to stay open to ideas for exploring patterns of thought, where they come from, what’s the impact, and maybe how to change them.  And you can do that on your own, but be careful to stay away from anyone who promises too much.  Stick with those who are realistic in expectation, but also who you connect with, either in books, videos, podcasts, or whatever.  There are soooo many more resources available now than in the past.  For example, I have been watching recently a lot of videos done by the autistic community and implementing some of their suggestions.  There is something very reassuring about hearing someone else has struggled in the same way I have and it now makes sense to them why even if I don’t know if my “why” for struggling is the same.  I don’t know if I am actually autistic or if just some of my characteristics are similar (but if my dad wasn’t Level 1 autistic I will be shocked as nothing else explains his quirks and patterns even close), but there have been some ideas that really resonated with me and have already yielded quite good fruit, mainly in my relationship with my husband (looking at my reactions in a different way has helped me get past the surface and figure out more of what was really bothering me and gave me words to explain it to him) even though he hates labels and prefers just to deal with behaviour (he is an organizational psychologist, so has quite a bit of background in general psychology), which sometimes makes it hard to discuss possibilities with him, but overall it is getting easier for both of us to talk when we have struggles.

A couple of years ago I got really into simplifying my life because of health, trying to limit the stuff I had to care for or would be responsible for as I got older and just so life would take less energy and my husband and daughter were a real roadblock to any progress, which was so frustrating and so unreasonable in my eyes.

My mom had recently passed away 6 years after my dad had unexpectedly died from an infection and I was exhausted from trying to care for her and feeling I had been doing a pretty poor job of it as well.  Plans had been tossed aside because of the suddenness of my dad’s death and no one realizing my mom’s dementia was as bad as it was so poor long term decisions were made by my extended family, which left the burden of caring for Mom on me without giving me the ability to make the decisions to make it work.  My husband, who never once complained about it, took over much of Mom’s care when it got to the point I couldn’t drive very much due to dizziness and exhaustion (instead of moving in with us as planned, Mom lived about 30 minutes away from us…I could manage 15 minutes in the car before getting sick).  I was not going to set up my kids to live in crisis mode constantly the last years of my life.  So I looked for ideas on how to get my life in order.

I came across a website that talked about how different people feel comfortable with different organization styles and one of those styles fit my family members perfectly.  Unfortunately the way I like things, what makes me feel safe and comfortable, what requires less mental work is the opposite style (they need to see their stuff or they worry or forget about it so they want everything out everywhere while I can’t stand visual clutter, I like my stuff behind doors and very well ordered).  The podcast gave me a new way of seeing the “roadblock”,  ideas on how to compromise so that they were secure without me feeling overwhelmed, which was very helpful and is probably the reason why I am now able to devote my mornings to swimming and other physical activity rather than feeling I had to use all my energy trying to keep my home afloat.  That podcast was my organizational therapy class.

So there are lots of ideas out there that could help improve life if one is paying attention and is willing to invest time and attention to it and you don’t have to wait for it based on someone else’s schedule.

All this to say, please don’t give up and just settle for what drugs can do for you.  You deserve more than that for your life.  Therapy can be very helpful, but if that is not accessible for now, what about choosing an aspect of your life you have control over that you want to change and go online and see if others have shared their experiences and perhaps you can pick up ideas that give you energy to try new things.

Edited September 21 by Calm

[Calm]

Btw Dario, I hope the above isn’t more of a burden than a help.  You seem like you are in a place where you can hear it without it being overwhelming, but that is hard to tell just with writing of course.  You are kind of getting something like what I want to tell my daughter right now, but I can see when I make even a little suggestion right now of something new she gets a panicked look on her face and starts making the noise where I know her brain is flailing around like a fish out of water, so I know I need to back off and go with something tried and true and very simple like offering to trim her hair (she hates it being in her face, but doesn’t like clips) or the ultimate comfort food, my homemade waffles instead of the gloriously nutritious meal I was dreaming of.  She is diabetic and recently her sugars have been off when they don’t usually get that way and we don’t know what is causing it, so it’s driven her close to her dark spot, though not there yet thankfully.  But she is avoiding things I am pretty sure would help (better food, more movement) out of fear they will make things worse instead or just because it’s too much to think about.  Since I have been where she is, I know me pushing her won’t make it better.  You might be in the same situation, but better at hiding it since I am not able to stand in front of you and look you over while I am giving advice.

So please just ignore it if it makes you feel worse.  But if it doesn’t, please think about it.  Your life is very different than mine, but we do share the same fate that like me, you will eventually get older.  And maybe I can help make that easier for you like I wish someone had me.

[Dario_M]

8 hours ago, rpn said:

Not really.  Only in your momentary imagination, perhaps.  But yes, your choice.  

Well i allready know that i feels better if i do that because i have allready done that. Sometimes that's the only way. Then at least my depressing and anxiety are gone for the next 8 till 12 hours. And i feel closer to God. Being depressed and having anxiety distracts me from God. 

Edited September 21 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I’m a therapist and I agree with your suggestion.  Some of my own clients won’t do the work required, it’s really too bad.  The ones who do, they get better.  All you can do is invite. Maybe it will inspire someone else ❤️

But for now i can't do any work because i'm on a waiting list. 

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

When I am really depressed that is what I feel like, but after 50 years of living with chronic depression, sometimes quite extreme, pills often don’t improve life, they are not a cure, at best for many, they maintain a certain level.  And they often stop working as well or even back fire.  Plus tons of side effects that may not bother you when younger, but wear you down when you are older.

I understand but sometimes i'm so desperate. And i don't know what to do else. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Pills can make it possible to do the work to have a better life, but they aren’t likely to give it to you.

Getting high of those pills can feel good. It's only Lorazepam. I hardly feel any side effects.

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones who just needs to find the right med for happiness to come to you.  I am not.  In every case but one, medication has kept me going for a few years at most before backfiring and the one med that is still working for me is making it impossible for me to lose weight,

You make me curious. Is it an antidepressant or an benzodiazepine? 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

kills my libido and my creativity and makes me nauseous if I miss a dose for an hour or two and a full out panic attack, I am going to die after 16 hours off of it these days

I don't even wanna imagine how worse my problems get in case i would run out of medication. 1 thing i do know. It would he horific. So yeah i understand what you are talking about. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

where even ten years ago if I wanted to go cold turkey and take a vacation from it, it would be an uncomfortable three days, but not much more than the flu.   It is so worth it to work on things when you can when you are younger because it gets harder as you get older.  There are so many things .i wish I could convey to my younger self, especially don’t put stuff off thinking there will be a better time, a less stressful time, a time it won’t be so hard to ask others for help.

Is that so? I feel kinda old allready. While i'm just 32. 

But what kind of things would you wanted to convey to your younger self if i may ask? Or do you wished that you had done more work and went to a psychologist? 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Using therapy to help make drugs more effective and yourself less dependent so that when you are older you are not a slave to drugs that do an adequate job, but at a high cost is wise.

Maybe. Allthough i don't know how a psychologist could completely take away my fears and depression. I assume that it would only be talking and that's just not enough for me to get rid of this. A psychologist is not God.

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 I hope you reconsider your choice when you get to a place where you have enough energy and mental breathing space to consider something more than just medication.

It's difficult to say. I don't know what will happen in the future. I wish i knew..then maybe i could slowly tapering of the medication. I'm scared for the future right now. I'm scared that things will only get worse from now on. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 You already know that exercise helps after all.

Yeah it does. Yesterday i didn't take a walk and i was at home the whole day and i felt worse in the evening.

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 Therapy done right is like exercise for the brain.  I get that it has to come at the right time and with the right person and that is hard to get to; I have done it seriously four times in my life.  The first was very helpful; the second was useless and aggravating; the third was very helpful in some ways, not so much in others; the fourth made me feel better someone was listening, but nothing changed.  It is worth it though to stay open to the idea.

And exactly this is why i have not much trust in it. You need to find the right person like you said. If you don't. Then it won't help a thing. Not only that but this process takes so much time. Well...at least you have tried it four times. That's good. You gave it a fair chance. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Even more important imo is to stay open to ideas for exploring patterns of thought, where they come from, what’s the impact, and maybe how to change them.  And you can do that on your own, but be careful to stay away from anyone who promises too much.

Oh Calm. I don't have anyone in my life anymore. There is nobody there to promise me anything. I'm quite alone. But furtunately i have my boyfriend. And i just know that he always keep his promises. But for the rest there isn't anyone. No family. No friends. No parents. That last one is the most painfull. 

Last time i remember that've said that you had a great support system. And lets be honest having a good support system is kinda important. I don't have that anymore. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 Stick with those who are realistic in expectation, but also who you connect with.

😞😭

2 hours ago, Calm said:

either in books, videos, podcasts, or whatever.  There are soooo many more resources available now than in the past.

Yeah in the 90s there was just nothing. If you had these kind of problems you were pretty alone with it. People at that time could think they where the only ones. But now with internet it is clear that i'm not the only one for sure. And all the resources are out there. And everyone is sharing their experiences with each other. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 For example, I have been watching recently a lot of videos done by the autistic community and implementing some of their suggestions.

Really? On youtube? Wish channel if i may ask? 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 There is something very reassuring about hearing someone else has struggled in the same way I have and it now makes sense to them why even if I don’t know if my “why” for struggling is the same.  I don’t know if I am actually autistic or if just some of my characteristics are similar.

You should test it. Then you know for sure or you have it or not. It's always helpfull to know. But if your dad really had autisme it's more then likely that you have it as well. But there is nothing wrong with it right? Btw i find that you are really social. And you seem to be an empath. And those are really good skills. 🩵

2 hours ago, Calm said:

(but if my dad wasn’t Level 1 autistic I will be shocked as nothing else explains his quirks and patterns even close), but there have been some ideas that really resonated with me and have already yielded quite good fruit, mainly in my relationship with my husband (looking at my reactions in a different way has helped me get past the surface and figure out more of what was really bothering me and gave me words to explain it to him) even though he hates labels and prefers just to deal with behaviour.

Yeah is that so? Funny my bf is just the same. He also hate labels as well. Typical men. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

(he is an organizational psychologist, so has quite a bit of background in general psychology), which sometimes makes it hard to discuss possibilities with him, but overall it is getting easier for both of us to talk when we have struggles.

Oh really is he a psychologist? Why does he hate labels then? 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

A couple of years ago I got really into simplifying my life because of health, trying to limit the stuff I had to care for or would be responsible for as I got older and just so life would take less energy and my husband and daughter were a real roadblock to any progress, which was so frustrating and so unreasonable in my eyes.

Oh i don't think so Calm. You do what you can. Don't feel guilty if other people need to be a roadblock for you. It was probably necessary right? Accepting help from others is always a nice gift. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

My mom had recently passed away 6 years after my dad had unexpectedly died from an infection and I was exhausted from trying to care for her and feeling I had been doing a pretty poor job of it as well.  Plans had been tossed aside because of the suddenness of my dad’s death and no one realizing my mom’s dementia was as bad as it was so poor long term decisions were made by my extended family, which left the burden of caring for Mom on me without giving me the ability to make the decisions to make it work.

Omg that must be tough. Caring for somebody else. I understand why you did it though. It was your own mother so you wanted to help her as good as possible. I can understand that. It must be tough to have lose them both. I can understand how you must have felt. 6 years....that's not even that long ago. You must miss them a lot...

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 My husband, who never once complained about it, took over much of Mom’s care when it got to the point I couldn’t drive very much due to dizziness and exhaustion

I can understand that. Caring for somebody 24/7 is just exhausting. That must have been so tough for you. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

(instead of moving in with us as planned, Mom lived about 30 minutes away from us…I could manage 15 minutes in the car before getting sick).  I was not going to set up my kids to live in crisis mode constantly the last years of my life.  So I looked for ideas on how to get my life in order.

Maybe you should have bring her to a nursing home. Because that's just a really heavy burden to take up on you you know. And you had your kids as well that you also needed to take care of. That's a lot. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I came across a website that talked about how different people feel comfortable with different organization styles and one of those styles fit my family members perfectly.  Unfortunately the way I like things, what makes me feel safe and comfortable, what requires less mental work is the opposite style (they need to see their stuff or they worry or forget about it so they want everything out everywhere while I can’t stand visual clutter, I like my stuff behind doors and very well ordered).

 

Yeah you want things to be well organized right? 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 The podcast gave me a new way of seeing the “roadblock”,  ideas on how to compromise so that they were secure without me feeling overwhelmed, which was very helpful and is probably the reason why I am now able to devote my mornings to swimming and other physical activity rather than feeling I had to use all my energy trying to keep my home afloat.  That podcast was my organizational therapy class.

It's amazing how much podcasts and video's on youtube can be helpfull for others. That's the good thing about internet. It can be so helpfull. Maybe even more helpfull then a therapist. Because lets be honest...there can be really bad ones our there (from the stories i've heard).😇  Therapists who don't even have a clue how to help a person with mental problems. If i will get a psychologist like that who doesn't know his/her job well enough to help me i will absolutely refuse to talk with him/her and just close my mouth. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

So there are lots of ideas out there that could help improve life if one is paying attention and is willing to invest time and attention to it and you don’t have to wait for it based on someone else’s schedule.

Yeah...like i'm doing right now. With that stupid waiting list. And then after all that waiting you'll see that i finally get a psychologist and then it's a bad one. And i have waited for nothing. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

All this to say, please don’t give up and just settle for what drugs can do for you.  You deserve more than that for your life.

Aawh thank you so much that's kind of you to say. 🫂 you also desirve a good and happy life Calm. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 Therapy can be very helpful, but if that is not accessible for now, what about choosing an aspect of your life you have control over that you want to change and go online and see if others have shared their experiences and perhaps you can pick up ideas that give you energy to try new things.

Yeah i don't really know where to search. I need some advice about wich channels on youtube are helpfull. 

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Btw Dario, I hope the above isn’t more of a burden than a help.

Oh no absolutely not. It really helped me. Thank you for taking the time to write that all down. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 You seem like you are in a place where you can hear it without it being overwhelming.

Yeah that's right. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

But that is hard to tell just with writing of course.  You are kind of getting something like what I want to tell my daughter right now, but I can see when I make even a little suggestion right now of something new she gets a panicked look on her face and starts making the noise where I know her brain is flailing around like a fish out of water.

🤣

Yeah well.... i can always appreciate good advice from nice people. Not everyone wants to take the time to help others on that manner you see. But you are doing that for me and i'm very thankful I really appreciate the gesture alone. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Do I know I need to back off and go with something tried and true and very simple like offering to trim her hair (she hates it being in her face, but doesn’t like clips) or the ultimate comfort food, my homemade waffles instead of the gloriously nutritious meal I was dreaming of.

Homemade waffles hmmmm.🧇 You make me remember about those times my mom made homemade pancakes for me. They where so good. 🥞 Oh my....i miss that so much. My boyfriend doesn't wanna make homemade pancakes unfortunately. He finds that to much effort. He buys them ready-made from the supermarket 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 She is diabetic and recently her sugars have been off when they don’t usually get that way and we don’t know what is causing it, so it’s driven her close to her dark spot, though not there yet thankfully.

Oh my oh my.... you hear that a lot these days. People who have diabetes. I feel so sorry for your daughter that she needs to deal with that on such a young age. My father also has it. And he can't eat anything sweet. And he need to take a bunch of medication 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 But she is avoiding things I am pretty sure would help (better food, more movement) out of fear they will make things worse instead or just because it’s too much to think about.  Since I have been where she is, I know me pushing her won’t make it better.

Yeah i know that some people don't like that indeed. But sometimes those people still needs a little push though. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 You might be in the same situation, but better at hiding it since I am not able to stand in front of you and look you over while I am giving advice.

Believe me i don't mind. You care enough to give me advice and to try to help me. It's about the gesture you make and i can absolutely appreciate it. Whether it will actually help me is still the question offcourse. But at least you try. 🩵

2 hours ago, Calm said:

So please just ignore it if it makes you feel worse.  But if it doesn’t, please think about it.  Your life is very different than mine, but we do share the same fate that like me, you will eventually get older.  And maybe I can help make that easier for you like I wish someone had me.

Yeah your warning is clear to me. Now i know for sure that things will get harder when i get older. And it get's more difficult to find solutions the older i get. That i need to do something about it right now is clear to me. Thank you for that warning. 🫂

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

You make me curious. Is it an antidepressant or an benzodiazepine? 

Opioid 

[Dario_M]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Opioid 

Oh painkillers? But you know... if you suffer so much pain...then it's logic that you take them right. I can understand that. Having pain all the time is just horible and a turture. 

[Calm]

57 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

But what kind of things would you wanted to convey to your younger self if i may ask? Or do you wished that you had done more work and went to a psychologist? 

I would tell myself that I knew my feelings, that I knew the difference between exhaustion and depression and had the guts to insist the doctors listen to me rather than letting them tell me how I felt.  My issue was poor quality sleep due to the genetic disorder, restless legs syndrome.  At the time I first went to the doctors for it, I was 25 and they only heard I was sleeping excessively and yet was always exhausted and not that I was happy, just worried about being able to take care of my young son.  I knew what depression was because I experienced it as a teen and had a clinical psychology education and I just knew it wasn’t depression…but I let them talk me into taking an antidepressant which messed up my sleep disorder more because they are one of the worst things for it.

I do wish I had gone to a psychologist because then it would have been recognized most likely it wasn’t depression…but you know fatigue.  It doesn’t let you care for yourself the way you need to do it, you have to take shortcuts to survive.  A psychologist would have also helped me deal with my feelings of failure as a mother and wife because of my fatigue and would likely have helped me figure out more effective ways of dealing with it besides screwing up my sleep schedule even more (I would get energy at night and so would stay up and clean and prepare for the following day and then crash).

I also wish my husband and I had gone to counseling.  Unknown to me at that time, his mother had been verbally abusive when he was younger and he had become violent himself because of it.  One day when he was beating up some kid, it dawned on him what he was doing and he was pretty horrified.  He shut down that side of himself to the point he never even expressed any criticism, but when he was unhappy, boy, would he emote heaviness and oppression.  But he would never admit to feeling bad.  I would try to get him to talk about what was bugging him, but it didn’t work.  But I did figure out if I kept pushing him, he would have a brief emotional explosion and then be okay again for several months until stress got to him.  It worked to keep him from staying in the pit very long, but it harmed our relationship. I was arrogant enough to think if I couldn’t get him to talk no one could, but when we finally went to counseling 20 years later for his severe depression over our daughter getting diabetes, it just gushed out of him, so I was quite wrong on that.  He was too worried about hurting me or me rejecting him to open up.  I had known about not wanting to hurt me and had assured him it was better to speak up and tell me what was bothering him.  It floored me though that all those years of marriage he had been afraid I would leave him even though I never gave him a reason to think that besides the fact that I got frustrated and angry.  His mother was a good woman and by the time I knew her had overcome her own weakness that led to her being nasty to her kids, but the damage was done.  

And I had issues of abandonment/neglect (not major neglect but enough to lead to depression off and on as a teen and of course older) due to my mother not being emotionally available at times due to her own health issues and my dad not being great at communicating.  He was a problem solver, a fixer, and so if you had issues you got his attention, but doing well…it was expected, for example our good grades were no big deal, but if we got a C, we got the lecture.  Took me a long time to recognize this.  A psychologist could have sped up the process and helped me look at myself in healthier ways.

Speaking of healthier ways, I got to go to sleep, so will continue later.

Just to be clear I am not suggesting going to therapy instead of medication, I am suggesting doing both. 

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Oh painkillers? But you know... if you suffer so much pain...then it's logic that you take them right. I can understand that. Having pain all the time is just horible and a turture. 

I didn’t have pain when .i first started them.  They were and are the only thing that controlled the restless legs feelings (it was actuality my full body, I would be throwing myself out of bed, not into bed and would just lean against the wall and thump against it so the jarring feeling would wash out the tension that felt like my muscles were going to snap) so I could sleep.  The pain came later due to lack of deep healing sleep, chronic fatigue leading to being less active, weight gain, my second toe being too long on my feet lol, and arthritis and finally crowning glory on fibromyalgia probably a result of me getting sick with the bug that killed my dad.  I was vomiting and delirious but it was over within a day and I was just weak after that, but the following months I just shut down.  Found out I was quite low in thyroid where I had been normal if on the low side before, but even taking a supplement didn’t bring me back.  Started to get dizzy and a lot more anxiety, but I thought that was just worry over Mom.  Anyway, my daughter was diagnosed with fibromyalgia as she can’t bear to be touched most of the time (she can be touched if done the right way, but we have to be quite gentle when giving her hugs) and we got her into a pain specialist, who diagnosed me as having it as well when we were talking about some of our shared symptoms, but without the touch sensitivity she has.

Oh man, so out of it today…been rambling all day on the board and off.  Be careful getting me going as I can’t shut down, lol.  For sure going to sleep now.  Yeah, right…

Edited September 21 by Calm

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I would tell myself that I knew my feelings, that I knew the difference between exhaustion and depression and had the guts to insist the doctors listen to me rather than letting them tell me how I felt.  My issue was poor quality sleep due to the genetic disorder, restless legs syndrome.

Hey i was hiking to the coast this morning. Injoyed it a lot. It's really good weather here right now. And yeah..and now i'm back home.

But yeah it's important that the doctors listen to you. Bad sleep, having restless legs. That's just not good. The doctors don't decide for you how you feel. You decide that. You know your body best. So you did a good job kicking some doctors ***. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 At the time I first went to the doctors for it, I was 25 and they only heard I was sleeping excessively and yet was always exhausted and not that I was happy, just worried about being able to take care of my young son.  I knew what depression was because I experienced it as a teen and had a clinical psychology education and I just knew it wasn’t depression…but I let them talk me into taking an antidepressant which messed up my sleep disorder more because they are one of the worst things for it.

Absolutely. And another problem with antidepressants is that it can take months bevore that stuff starts working. While benzodiazepines work immediately.

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I do wish I had gone to a psychologist because then it would have been recognized most likely it wasn’t depression…but you know fatigue.  It doesn’t let you care for yourself the way you need to do it, you have to take shortcuts to survive.  A psychologist would have also helped me deal with my feelings of failure as a mother and wife because of my fatigue and would likely have helped me figure out more effective ways of dealing with it besides screwing up my sleep schedule even more

Yeah that is true. But sometimes it can be hard to find a good doctor. There are some really worthless doctor you better stay far away from. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

(I would get energy at night and so would stay up and clean and prepare for the following day and then crash).

Was it not just an option for you to sleep on the day time? I know...not ideal. But at least you can get some sleep. Mostely when you crash you fall asleep. When i crash on the daytime i fall asleep at least. And then your husband can take care of the kids.

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I also wish my husband and I had gone to counseling.  Unknown to me at that time, his mother had been verbally abusive when he was younger and he had become violent himself because of it.

Was your husband voilent? But not towards you i may hope? Because that's soooo not okay you know. 😠 abusive behavoir towards people who are vulnerable is just horible and a sign of weakeness. My father psysical abused me when i was a child and that was scary for me to experience. He hit me a lot. And because i was just a little boy it hurted a lot. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 One day when he was beating up some kid, it dawned on him what he was doing and he was pretty horrified.  He shut down that side of himself to the point he never even expressed any criticism, but when he was unhappy, boy, would he emote heaviness and oppression.  But he would never admit to feeling bad.

That's typical men behavoir. My dad was also like that.

And right now my boyfriend is also like that. He never talks about his feelings. While me myself loves to talk about my own feelings. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 I would try to get him to talk about what was bugging him, but it didn’t work.  But I did figure out if I kept pushing him, he would have a brief emotional explosion and then be okay again for several months until stress got to him.  It worked to keep him from staying in the pit very long, but it harmed our relationship.

I can imagine yeah. Those things always damage a relationship. And the trust fades away you know. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I was arrogant enough to think if I couldn’t get him to talk no one could, but when we finally went to counseling 20 years later for his severe depression over our daughter getting diabetes, it just gushed out of him, so I was quite wrong on that.

Oh really? Did he cry?

 

[Dario_M]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

I didn’t have pain when .i first started them.  They were and are the only thing that controlled the restless legs feelings (it was actuality my full body, I would be throwing myself out of bed, not into bed and would just lean against the wall and thump against it so the jarring feeling would wash out the tension that felt like my muscles were going to snap)

It sounds painfull though. But also super annoying to have that tension inside your legs. And if those opioids work against those problems i would have taken them as well. 

3 hours ago, Calm said:

so I could sleep.  The pain came later due to lack of deep healing sleep, chronic fatigue leading to being less active, weight gain, my second toe being too long on my feet lol, and arthritis and finally crowning glory on fibromyalgia probably a result of me getting sick with the bug that killed my dad.  I was vomiting and delirious but it was over within a day and I was just weak after that, but the following months I just shut down.  Found out I was quite low in thyroid where I had been normal if on the low side before, but even taking a supplement didn’t bring me back.  Started to get dizzy and a lot more anxiety, but I thought that was just worry over Mom.  Anyway, my daughter was diagnosed with fibromyalgia as she can’t bear to be touched most of the time (she can be touched if done the right way, but we have to be quite gentle when giving her hugs) and we got her into a pain specialist, who diagnosed me as having it as well when we were talking about some of our shared symptoms, but without the touch sensitivity she has.

Oh my. What a lot of physical problems you and you daughter have. How horible and difffult to deal with that. Poor you. 🫂

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Oh man, so out of it today…been rambling all day on the board and off.  Be careful getting me going as I can’t shut down, lol.  For sure going to sleep now.  Yeah, right…

Yeah Calm. I saw on the map that It's still dark in Utah. So i really hope you are be able to score some hours of sleep. I pray for you Calm. 🙏 That you may have the most profound dreams you can have and sleep well. I hope that later on the weather in Utah will be as sunny as i have it here in my area right now.

Sweet dreams. 🩵😴🌌🌌

Edited September 21 by Dario_M

[Calm]

9 hours ago, Dario_M said:

So you did a good job kicking some doctors ***

But I didn’t.  I wish I had and that is what I would want my older self to tell me.  

I got better at believing in myself and at 30 did tear up an antidepressant prescription from a doctor who told me I didn’t really want another child and told me I was to go home and tell my husband to stop pushing me to have one when I went in to consult on possible treatments for postpartum depression when I was planning on getting pregnant since I believed that is what happened to me with my first child (it wasn’t as I said before, it was severe sleep deprivation due to the pregnancy making my rls worse).

But it took my daughter’s life being screwed up by the wrong drug to get me brave enough to talk back to doctors rather than act like I was accepting what they said, but ignore then later.  So I would have been 45 when I got brave enough…or rather angry enough.  

[Calm]

9 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Was it not just an option for you to sleep on the day time?

It worked great with my son who slept till 9 in the morning and took a long nap, but 8 years later my daughter would wake up by 7 and took one 20 minute nap some days.  Looking back, it was obviously bad rls for her.  When she was in bed with us because she wouldn’t fall asleep in her crib, she would somehow always turn sideways and get her feet up against us and push and we would roll over half asleep and end up on the side of the bed (it was king size, a gift from my mom who also had a tall husband) and then off the bed, stagger around to the other side and flop down to sleep (of course after putting a pillow on the end so the baby wouldn’t fall off), only to have her reverse and start pushing us off that side, lol.  I recognize now as it being the same thing that causes me to scrunch down and my bed so my feet hit the footboard because my feet like to push off of it all night.

So I was a zombie with my daughter until she went to kindergarten. Thankfully my husband was a professor and generally had later classes so he took care of the kids in the morning and let me sleep a few more hours.

[Calm]

9 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Was your husband voilent? But not towards you i may hope?

He was a sweetheart.  I was so shocked to find out he had been violent as a child because it was so not him, but that and him being verbally abused did make sense looking back because he had so thoroughly suppressed that side to the point he has a hard time saying criticisms about anyone even when they deserved it and downplays all the hardships he has.  There was only one time with me he got violent and that was hurting himself, not me, by putting his fist through the wall, though he assured me later he knew where the stud was and we were planning on tearing the wall out, so it wasn’t like he was out of control.

Nowadays he is better at talking about his problems with others, but still won’t criticize family members, which is both great because it creates a very safe and loving home for us, but also not great because it takes a long time to figure out what bothers him and how to help him.  He has been able to tell me when something is hard on him now if I have been giving him lots of opportunities to share, which I try to do.

There were only two things where his temper ever came out with unless I pushed him really hard and I didn’t want to do that as obviously even if it allowed him to blow off steam like he needed, it made him unhappy.  One was sports.  He wouldn’t swear at the referees, but he would be yelling they were idiots and red in his face.  My kids were mystified when that happened and scared even if they knew he wasn’t angry at them.  Apparently his dad was the same way.  Wouldn’t say boo to a mouse, but was a maniac at a football game.  One of my husband’s brothers hated football because of being scared when his dad took him to games, made him physically ill even though his dad was yelling at someone else.

The other thing that my husband did was road rage.  He didn’t go all yelling, just get loud and irritated and say they were idiots, etc, but he would do stupid things.  He never got in an accident, he never pushed it too far with the tailgating someone who had cut him off, but it got close enough my kids were afraid to drive with him for a time.  That led to him getting it under control though he thought we were making a drama out of it.  I don’t think he realized how different he was when that way.  No cell phones back then to record him to show him unfortunately….though I suspect me pulling one out would shock him enough to calm him down so I probably would never have gotten a video anyway, lol.

Edited September 21 by Calm

[Calm]

10 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Oh really? Did he cry?

No, just talked and talked and said some really odd things about what I had said to him, which I never had and never would, like comparing him to my dad.  I love my dad and always knew he loved me and would be sure I was safe and taken care of, but Dad was nothing like the husband or father for my kids that I wanted as Dad just wasn’t interested in us as individuals when we were young, wouldn’t listen to our ideas about what we wanted to do though he never stopped us, just didn’t help and he wasn’t interested in talking with Mom about stuff she or he was interested in, he was a fixer and when he wasn’t fixing or playing handball with his friends or watching TV, he was asleep, so Mom was often lonely even though in other ways their marriage was the best and Dad was always the person people went to when they needed help in any way and they always got it.

My husband had to have criticized himself in those ways, seen himself as not a good provider because we had money problems at times (he is great at making money, actually, he just spends too much at times, but then so do I, lol) and not doing the things he should be doing as a father and then his mind turned it into me criticizing him.  It helped him expressing those beliefs though because I could correct him and tell him he was a much better father whose kids never doubted they were not only loved, but also best friends with their dad among other things.  And that if I ever compared him to my dad, he was always the winner, not my dad (except when it came to cleaning, my dad was a great cleaner, husband not that great, but since I married him because I knew he would play, especially with our kids, I can’t complain   ).

I am not sure he believed it in his gut, he has some deep feelings of inadequacy that he won’t talk about with me.  But I am pretty sure he is secure now that I am not leaving him or thinking about leaving him even when felling trapped by life.  I would be stupid to even consider it.

Edited September 21 by Calm

[Calm]

10 hours ago, Dario_M said:

. So i really hope you are be able to score some hours of sleep. I pray for you Calm.

I slept solidly till noon, so a good ‘night’s’ Sleep for me, lol

[Dario_M]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

But I didn’t.  I wish I had and that is what I would want my older self to tell me.  

Ooh okay i misunderstood you then. My bad.

8 hours ago, Calm said:

I got better at believing in myself and at 30 did tear up an antidepressant prescription from a doctor who told me I didn’t really want another child and told me I was to go home and tell my husband to stop pushing me to have one when I went in to consult on possible treatments for postpartum depression when I was planning on getting pregnant since I believed that is what happened to me with my first child (it wasn’t as I said before, it was severe sleep deprivation due to the pregnancy making my rls worse).

Oh my. I'm so happy that i'm a man and can not get pregnant. That must be the worst feeling ever. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

But it took my daughter’s life being screwed up by the wrong drug to get me brave enough to talk back to doctors rather than act like I was accepting what they said, but ignore then later.  So I would have been 45 when I got brave enough…or rather angry enough.  

Yeah. Something you just need to quit being nice and just tell those doctors the truth. I have had some heavy arguments with doctors and also the dentist. But it was worth it. 

Edited September 22 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

It worked great with my son who slept till 9 in the morning and took a long nap, but 8 years later my daughter would wake up by 7 and took one 20 minute nap some days.  Looking back, it was obviously bad rls for her.  When she was in bed with us because she wouldn’t fall asleep in her crib, she would somehow always turn sideways and get her feet up against us and push and we would roll over half asleep and end up on the side of the bed (it was king size, a gift from my mom who also had a tall husband) and then off the bed, stagger around to the other side and flop down to sleep (of course after putting a pillow on the end so the baby wouldn’t fall off), only to have her reverse and start pushing us off that side, lol.  I recognize now as it being the same thing that causes me to scrunch down and my bed so my feet hit the footboard because my feet like to push off of it all night.

Yeah. Well.. i also have some sleep problems as well these days. Right now it's 7:30 so that's allready quite early. Yesterday i went to bed around 22:30 i do believe. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

So I was a zombie with my daughter until she went to kindergarten. Thankfully my husband was a professor and generally had later classes so he took care of the kids in the morning and let me sleep a few more hours.

Yeah that is tough having kids to take care of. I know that because i saw how my parents screwed it up all the time. And couldn't handle me or my sister. It was always a drama show at our home. Seriously it was quite embarasing. 

[Dario_M]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

He was a sweetheart.  I was so shocked to find out he had been violent as a child because it was so not him, but that and him being verbally abused did make sense looking back because he had so thoroughly suppressed that side to the point he has a hard time saying criticisms about anyone even when they deserved it and downplays all the hardships he has.

I'm happy to read that. For a moment a thought that your husband was voilent towards you. And that would be just horible you know. 🫂 But luckely he isn't like that. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

 There was only one time with me he got violent and that was hurting himself, not me, by putting his fist through the wall, though he assured me later he knew where the stud was and we were planning on tearing the wall out, so it wasn’t like he was out of control.

Oh really. But he didn't hurt you i may hope? 🫂 I just hate abuse. My dad did hit me aften and it was so painfull and humiliating. He did it even when he was around other people. Always justifying for himself why he did it. And that i deserved it because i was such a horible kid. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Nowadays he is better at talking about his problems with others, but still won’t criticize family members, which is both great because it creates a very safe and loving home for us, but also not great because it takes a long time to figure out what bothers him and how to help him.  He has been able to tell me when something is hard on him now if I have been giving him lots of opportunities to share, which I try to do.

Same with my boyfriend. If something bothers him he always have a hard time talking about it. And i feel like i need to pull it out of him. Sometimes i get angry on him. Because i just feel on his energy that something is off but he's not telling me what that is. And just don't wanna talk about it. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

There were only two things where his temper ever came out with unless I pushed him really hard

I push my boyfriend really hard though. Sometimes it's just necessary. Believe me it's just super frustrating if your partner is bothered by something but he doesn't wanna talk about it. But on the same time he is acting strange and you just know there is something wrong. In a relationship that can't be really annoying you know. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

and I didn’t want to do that as obviously even if it allowed him to blow off steam like he needed, it made him unhappy.  One was sports.  He wouldn’t swear at the referees, but he would be yelling they were idiots and red in his face.  My kids were mystified when that happened and scared even if they knew he wasn’t angry at them.  Apparently his dad was the same way.  Wouldn’t say boo to a mouse, but was a maniac at a football game.

Oh my....but is that not always with men on a football game???  They always lose their cool on a football game i find. Espacially when they lose the game. That's why i don't like football at all. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

 One of my husband’s brothers hated football because of being scared when his dad took him to games.

I can understand that. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Made him physically ill even though his dad was yelling at someone else.

I hate that kind of tention. I would make me ill as well. If people are screaming at each other. It would make me really nerveus. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

The other thing that my husband did was road rage.

No way, you gotta be kidding me. 🤣 you must feel really save when you're next to him in the care then. How much tickets does he have allready? 

However.... when i had a car i always was decent on the road. I never liked to road rage. I was always really irritated when i saw other people doing that. Another thing that i really hated was when people where tailgating me. Oh my that made me always so frustrated. On those times it could eat my steering wheel. 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

 He didn’t go all yelling, just get loud and irritated and say they were idiots, etc, but he would do stupid things.  He never got in an accident, he never pushed it too far with the tailgating someone who had cut him off, but it got close enough my kids were afraid to drive with him for a time.

Yeah but that's just not really save you know. Your husband needs to be carefull when doing these kind of things because when the police sees that your husband will have a problem. And not only that but your husband can get in a really bad accident. And that's just not worth it. I understand his frustrations though. I have been driving for 9 years and know how frustrating it can be. 😡....🤣 now i'm looking back at that time i am happy that i don't have a car anymore. But on the same time i do miss it because it was so easy. 😭

8 hours ago, Calm said:

 That led to him getting it under control though he thought we were making a drama out of it.  I don’t think he realized how different he was when that way.  No cell phones back then to record him to show him unfortunately….though I suspect me pulling one out would shock him enough to calm him down so I probably would never have gotten a video anyway, lol.

Good that he has improved his driving skills then. Maybe that's because he's older now. And wiser.