Tim Ballard Defends Himself, Part 2

[teddyaware]

This video is far shorter than the previous video, being only 44 minutes long. If what Ballard is saying in this very passionate defense of his reputation is true, it appears it’s only a matter of time till he’s completely vindicated. Either that or he is, as I’ve said, the king of sociopaths.

 

[MustardSeed]

The black and white construct allows us to distance ourselves from a frightening truth, that humans can lie, and we wouldn’t know it, because 1. sociopaths don’t wear name tags,2. and worse, some liars aren’t sociopaths so it’s even harder to detect, 3. and even worse, maybe we ourselves are flawed enough to be victims 4 and worst of all, maybe we are or could become such. 

[Doctor Steuss]

It's interesting to me that the mythologizing of him even finds its way into pretending to maintain space for the possibility that he isn't completely innocent of any and all wrongdoing.  In that space, he isn't just a sociopath, but must be the "King of Sociopaths."  Even in trying to allow for the possibility that his multiple accusers, his own non-profit's investigation of him, and the Church of Jesus Christ are telling the truth -- and Ballard isn't -- there's still a special pedestal for Ballard where he's something exceptional.

To me, he's just a run-of-the-mill conman, and scumbag that has gotten caught up in exploiting people for his own gain.  Nothing particularly special; even the fact that he has maintained ardent defenders and followers through this isn't particularly surprising.  Conmen are good at maintaining marks.  Even when there's almost a decade of professional organizations, and law enforcement calling him out. 

I don't know if he started out as a conman (I personally doubt it), or if his plans to use it all to funnel money to himself (as he laid out in his infamous leaked whiteboard meeting) was an afterthought that came about through the intoxication of money, publicity, and a cult following.  Humans are complicated -- he very well may have started out with a sincere desire to help people, with himself as an afterthought.  Whether he started out this way, or became this way is immaterial though to the fact that exploiting others for self-gratification and enrichment is morally reprehensible.  Being able to do it also isn't some kind of superpower, or else conmen like him wouldn't be a dime a dozen. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Doctor Steuss said:

It's interesting to me that the mythologizing of him even finds its way into pretending to maintain space for the possibility that he isn't completely innocent of any and all wrongdoing.  In that space, he isn't just a sociopath, but must be the "King of Sociopaths."  Even in trying to allow for the possibility that his multiple accusers, his own non-profit's investigation of him, and the Church of Jesus Christ are telling the truth -- and Ballard isn't -- there's still a special pedestal for Ballard where he's something exceptional.

To me, he's just a run-of-the-mill conman, and scumbag that has gotten caught up in exploiting people for his own gain.  Nothing particularly special; even the fact that he has maintained ardent defenders and followers through this isn't particularly surprising.  Conmen are good at maintaining marks.  Even when there's almost a decade of professional organizations, and law enforcement calling him out. 

I don't know if he started out as a conman (I personally doubt it), or if his plans to use it all to funnel money to himself (as he laid out in his infamous leaked whiteboard meeting) was an afterthought that came about through the intoxication of money, publicity, and a cult following.  Humans are complicated -- he very well may have started out with a sincere desire to help people, with himself as an afterthought.  Whether he started out this way, or became this way is immaterial though to the fact that exploiting others for self-gratification and enrichment is morally reprehensible.  Being able to do it also isn't some kind of superpower, or else conmen like him wouldn't be a dime a dozen. 

I tend to lean with him having good intentions in the very beginning, but that he chose an area with a lot of temptation in it and gave in completely.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Doctor Steuss said:

To me, he's just a run-of-the-mill conman

Most conmen don’t have movies made of them as the hero, their fantasy version of their life presented as real. 

Most conmen don’t run for the Senate, though I fear the reverse—most who run for the Senate are conmen—might be true. 

Not saying this makes him special, atypical is all I am suggesting. 

Edited September 10 by Calm

[Calm]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

it appears it’s only a matter of time till he’s completely vindicated.

It will be nice if there is a definite end to uncertainty. Though I suspect if the end isn’t him being vindicated, he will continue to say “it’s only a matter of time”.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Doctor Steuss said:

It's interesting to me that the mythologizing of him even finds its way into pretending to maintain space for the possibility that he isn't completely innocent of any and all wrongdoing.  In that space, he isn't just a sociopath, but must be the "King of Sociopaths."  Even in trying to allow for the possibility that his multiple accusers, his own non-profit's investigation of him, and the Church of Jesus Christ are telling the truth -- and Ballard isn't -- there's still a special pedestal for Ballard where he's something exceptional.

To me, he's just a run-of-the-mill conman, and scumbag that has gotten caught up in exploiting people for his own gain.  Nothing particularly special; even the fact that he has maintained ardent defenders and followers through this isn't particularly surprising.  Conmen are good at maintaining marks.  Even when there's almost a decade of professional organizations, and law enforcement calling him out. 

I don't know if he started out as a conman (I personally doubt it), or if his plans to use it all to funnel money to himself (as he laid out in his infamous leaked whiteboard meeting) was an afterthought that came about through the intoxication of money, publicity, and a cult following.  Humans are complicated -- he very well may have started out with a sincere desire to help people, with himself as an afterthought.  Whether he started out this way, or became this way is immaterial though to the fact that exploiting others for self-gratification and enrichment is morally reprehensible.  Being able to do it also isn't some kind of superpower, or else conmen like him wouldn't be a dime a dozen. 

This, the banality of evil is neatly sidestepped. He is either an innocent lamb or a real life Professor Moriarty. No space for being a regular cultish schmuck with some charisma who can sound passionate while lying. Being able to be passionate and convincing while lying isn’t that hard. The ancient Greeks had this figured out and people sold themselves as tutors promising to teach others how to do it.

[The Nehor]

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Most conmen don’t have movies made of them as the hero, their fantasy version of their life presented as real. 

When you are the one behind the movie though:

 

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Most conmen don’t run for the Senate, though I fear the reverse—most who run for the Senate are conmen—might be true. 

Not saying this makes him special, atypical is all I am suggesting. 

A lot of delusional cultish types seek political power. Sometimes through running for office. The smarter ones just convert political figures or buy them off. Ballard wants the spotlight. Wanting to be the prophet and a senator. I wouldn’t be surprised if I heard he has dreams of running for president one day.

[Calm]

32 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

wouldn’t be surprised if I heard he has dreams of running for president one day.

Isn’t one rumor saying Harrison, Spencer of Visions of Gory, gag gag gag, blessed him to be both prophet of the Church and president of the US?

[Anonymous Mormon]

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Isn’t one rumor saying Harrison, Spencer of Visions of Gory, gag gag gag, blessed him to be both prophet of the Church and president of the US?

Yes, that is a rumor. However, I don't think there is any proof of this, is there? And if not, I don't think it's worth bad-mouthing Harrison, because some of the rumors being spread about Tim Ballard are clearly and demonstrably false.

I have no connection to Harrison and haven't read Visions of Glory cover-to-cover, but I do feel bad for him and feel he gets a bad rap. Critics of the church blame him for all kinds of things that I don't think he has ever done or is related to - for example just because Lori Daybell was reading his book when she was served papers.

Yes, I am sure Harrison has acted imperfectly (using his fame to get speaking spots, etc.), but spreading rumor and innuendo about him is I don't think fair.

See this website for more info:
https://johnpontius.info/home-faq

 

(note: if there is more concrete evidence to link this then I am aware of I am open to re-evaluating my opinion on this)

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

I have no connection to Harrison and haven't read Visions of Glory cover-to-cover, but I do feel bad for him and feel he gets a bad rap

Harrison’s bad rap for me is from the self centered, racist, sexist self indulgent drivel that is Visions of Glory…his glory and no one else’s, imo; even Christ was there to show how great Harrison was because he and Christ were buddy buddy; Harrison even had an office next to Christ’s in the temple…or was Christ’s next to his?  Angels attending his birth and saving his life.  Also from the fact he whined about the blowback and then ducked out on any responsibility for any of the harm it has done, which imo has been major.

I have read it almost all the way through.  I had a friend give it to me because it badly disturbed her, gave her nightmares and others in my ward were witnessing it was prophecy to her.  It was so poorly written I had to frequently stop, so I may have missed some.  If it resonated with anyone here, I feel bad if you feel insulted because I really don’t want to do that to anyone…even Harrison as it’s more of wanting to shake him and ask why the heck he hasn’t tried to stop the damage the book has done by being more public with his distancing from it (which looks to me was just enough to keep from getting disciplined), but I just can’t understand why it has been so popular to be blunt.

Edited September 11 by Calm

[Calm]

From the link:

Quote

These visions were given to Spencer to prepare him personally for what lay ahead in his own life.

 

“He has never considered that these visions of the future were for or about the latter-day Church. 

His visions include Salt Lake City getting trashed and half the members of the 12 and 1st Presidency getting killed off, meetings of the Church where Christ appears, Harrison part of a group who gathers in the lost tribes.  How in the world is that not a vision about the latter-day Church?

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

Yes, that is a rumor. However, I don't think there is any proof of this, is there? And if not, I don't think it's worth bad-mouthing Harrison, because some of the rumors being spread about Tim Ballard are clearly and demonstrably false.

I have no connection to Harrison and haven't read Visions of Glory cover-to-cover, but I do feel bad for him and feel he gets a bad rap. Critics of the church blame him for all kinds of things that I don't think he has ever done or is related to - for example just because Lori Daybell was reading his book when she was served papers.

Yes, I am sure Harrison has acted imperfectly (using his fame to get speaking spots, etc.), but spreading rumor and innuendo about him is I don't think fair.

See this website for more info:
https://johnpontius.info/home-faq

 

(note: if there is more concrete evidence to link this then I am aware of I am open to re-evaluating my opinion on this)

Harrison is a hot mess even if there is no connection to Ballard.

[Dario_M]

I don't know what to believe to be honest. He seemed to be truthfull. But maybe yeah...maybe he's just a good lyer after all. Sad. ⚡

he is good looking i find though.

Edited September 11 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

50 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

he is good looking i find though.

It is always the cute ones.

[Dario_M]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

It is always the cute ones.

Yeah. The cute ones who go crazy. 🤣

[smac97]

22 hours ago, teddyaware said:

This video is far shorter than the previous video, being only 44 minutes long. If what Ballard is saying in this very passionate defense of his reputation is true, it appears it’s only a matter of time till he’s completely vindicated. Either that or he is, as I’ve said, the king of sociopaths.

 

I'll be curious to see, in the end, what the evidence shows.  So far we haven't seen much as regarding the allegations of sexual misconduct.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited September 11 by smac97

[Tacenda]

When OUR fires Tim, and the LDS church excommunicates him, I think there's something to it. 

I want to share this local news station in Utah's timeline below and btw, I donated to OUR back when it was starting up, and I went to the Cinemark theater where OUR showed a documentary called: The Abolitionists. I fell for the whole kitten caboodle. And my neighbor at the time was a volunteer, but not as his fake wife luckily. I read here or somewhere that someone asked why in the world does Tim need a fake wife? ETA: I deleted the timeline, for reasons that it may not reflect well for Pres Ballard, and that wasn't my intention. 

Found the documentary "The Abolitionists". 

 

Edited September 11 by Tacenda

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

the LDS church excommunicates him

Do we know if this has been done?  I would be shocked if it hadn’t given the public condemnation by Elder Ballard of him.  I assume for that to have happened there was strong evidence of misconduct that risks his membership.  I don’t remember seeing anything halfway authoritative though…could have just forgotten. 

[Tacenda]

Just now, Calm said:

Do we know if this has been done?  I would be shocked if it hadn’t given the public condemnation by Elder Ballard of him.  I assume for that to have happened there was strong evidence of misconduct that risks his membership.  I don’t remember seeing anything halfway authoritative though…could have just forgotten. 

Oh, I thought it'd happened. My bad if I've spread misinformation. But do remember somewhere someone saying it had happened. But I could be wrong. I thought that he wanted to join another church. Probably not true. 

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

kitten caboodle.

The nitpicker in me has to share its “kit and caboodle” even if I prefer the way you say it.

I had not realized it started out as “kit and boodle”.  I really hope the next evolution is “kit and caboodle”.  That is making me delighted today.  So don’t change it, do it on purpose in the future for me.   
 

https://socratic.org/questions/where-did-the-term-kit-and-kaboodle-come-from#:~:text=The slang term from New,carry on a long trip.

Quote

There are references to the whole caboodle dating from 1848 
a caboodle is a group often of people but also a group of bundles. 

Then in 1884 there are references to the whole kit and caboodle 
The kit was used during the Civil War as a reference to the backpack sleeping mat and everything else the soldier would carrying with him on a military campaign. It is not clear if the caboodle is referring to the bunch of bundles that the soldier would carry along with his backpack or to a bunch of soldiers. 

Then in 1888 the references to the whole kit and kaboodle are found. a boodle is only used in references to a bunch of bundles such as a bunch of straw. It is not clear if the change from caboodle or Kaboodle was for alliteration or to make clear the meaning between a bunch of bundles or a bunch of people. 

The slang term from New England by the turn of the century was a reference to the entire kit ( backpack) and bundles (ka boodle) person might carry on a long trip. i.e. everything. A similar term in use today might be everything including the kitchen sink. 

Also

https://www.brandtuitive.com/top-marketing-agency-blog/why-we-say-it-kit-and-caboodle#:~:text=Apparently%2C the phrase began as,meaning a bunch or bundle.

Quote

Let the Googling begin.

We learned that this fun-for-the-tongue phrase probably dates back to the middle of the 19th century and has its origins in the U.S. The phrase seems to have taken a few forms before landing on kit and caboodle.

Apparently, the phrase began as “the whole kit and boodle.” Kit meaning collection and boodle is thought to have derived from the Old-English word for bottel – meaning a bunch or bundle. Researchers believe the phrase morphed to “kit and caboodle” for alliterative purposes

 

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Oh, I thought it'd happened. My bad if I've spread misinformation. But do remember somewhere someone saying it had happened. But I could be wrong. I thought that he wanted to join another church. Probably not true. 

There was a rumor iirc he was thinking about joining the Catholics because he had gone to a Catholic group’s event; but unlikely in my view. 
 

Like I said above, I will be shocked if he isn’t, but membership withdrawal of any kind is one thing I think we should be careful not to claim without something at least very close to official or a statement from the individual or maybe a known immediate family member (not a distant cousin or even cousin imo is safe and definitely not some random person claiming inside knowledge).

Edited September 11 by Calm

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

The nitpicker in me has to share its “kit and caboodle” even if I prefer the way you say it.

I had not realized it started out as “kit and boodle”.  I really hope the next evolution is “kit and caboodle”.  That is making me delighted today.  So don’t change it, do it on purpose in the future for me.   
 

https://socratic.org/questions/where-did-the-term-kit-and-kaboodle-come-from#:~:text=The slang term from New,carry on a long trip.

Also

https://www.brandtuitive.com/top-marketing-agency-blog/why-we-say-it-kit-and-caboodle#:~:text=Apparently%2C the phrase began as,meaning a bunch or bundle.

 

Thanks Calm, I appreciate being corrected on this, how embarrassing! 

[Tacenda]

23 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do we know if this has been done?  I would be shocked if it hadn’t given the public condemnation by Elder Ballard of him.  I assume for that to have happened there was strong evidence of misconduct that risks his membership.  I don’t remember seeing anything halfway authoritative though…could have just forgotten. 

I went to Google and a podcast not to be mentioned, had a podcast about it. I guess from their research and inside information. They found out there was a disciplinarian meeting, but he wasn't ex'd that night. And on LDS tools Katherine his wife, is listed as head of the household. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks Calm, I appreciate being corrected on this, how embarrassing! 

You shouldn’t be the least bit embarrassed.  It sounds exactly like that. And it’s no more odd than a lot of phrases out there.  How would you know if you had never seen it written? And where does it get written these days!  It’s been eons since I have even heard it.  I read books on unusual word phrases off and on and I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the only reason why I knew how it was written.

PS:  I would definitely have a segment on my imaginary podcast on odd words and phrases and I would solicit suggestions from listeners for what should be the next evolution of fun phrases and share the best the next podcast.  And I would name it The Whole Kitten Caboodle!

And give my good friend, Tacenda, full credit for the inspiration.  

Edited September 11 by Calm