Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Missionary Arrested for Rape in Utah County


smac97

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Probably should feel bad since it’s a form of sexual assault. It is not much different in action from a man exposing himself to women.  I am not disturbed by nudity, so given the context of it being their home and hopefully not done for sexual pleasure, that in and of itself I see as pretty harmless. The problem is the attitude that it is okay to force others to engage in sexual interaction without consent. It is too easy to shift from ‘such pranks’ to touching sexually without consent, etc. 

Agreed.  It probably would not have been seen as such in the 90s.  Lots has changed on that topic, and for the better.

Link to comment
9 hours ago, Devobah said:

That’s what I’m wondering. From what I can find, there’s only a date, not a time of the events, (I’m under the assumption that the police were called right away and were there within half an hour or so) though I’ll search more. Abraham didn’t mention a companion with him, nor was there one mentioned in the news report, so it’s possible he snuck away early in the morning or late at night. It has been known to happen, and I don’t think it ever happened in my mission.

Whomever the companion is, I’d like to think they are just sick to their stomach right now and probably needing a lot of counseling, blessings and prayers. One of the hardest things to get over sometimes is someone’s choices when they happen around you. And if you’re an overthinker like me, you’re thinking of every which way, every moment from the time that you were together, just searching for something that you could have seen, done, or heard to possibly erase that. 

Sometimes companions give each other the slip, so it could be a case of that.  I'm wondering if it happened late at night, since the Elder didn't seem to be concerned about someone randomly walking into the garage.  We had an elder in my mission get a girl he had just baptized pregnant, and that happened when he snuck out of his house one night and left his companion behind sleeping.

If the companion allowed him to be alone, then he is probably feeling really really horrible, and wishing he could go back and make a different choice.

Link to comment
4 hours ago, gopher said:

Unless the rules have changed, the companion will be sent home too.  It was his responsibility to keep an eye on his companion.  I'm glad the girl was brave enough to report it to the police, especially since she admitted there was consensual activity too.  It's a sad story.

Could you please CFR that as it seems this is new to many, including me?

Link to comment
1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Sometimes companions give each other the slip, so it could be a case of that.  I'm wondering if it happened late at night, since the Elder didn't seem to be concerned about someone randomly walking into the garage.  We had an elder in my mission get a girl he had just baptized pregnant, and that happened when he snuck out of his house one night and left his companion behind sleeping.

If the companion allowed him to be alone, then he is probably feeling really really horrible, and wishing he could go back and make a different choice.

And it's not always easy to know what to do in some situations even if you do know.  Some companions are difficult to live with.  I had a companion who broke a lot of rules and my mission president just asked me to do my best with her.  Other missionaries have had companions who threatened them in some way and when they shared that with their mission president, he didn't separate them.  My son was put with companions who had a hard time not messing around on their phones because he was obedient and understood the technology enough to check and see what his companions were doing - putting adults in as parents doesn't always work well and puts those companions in awkward places sometimes.

Link to comment
17 hours ago, Calm said:

Those making false reports are usually repeat offenders, often with outlandish claims (likely there is a mental disorder involved)

I feel the need to point out the mentally ill are particularly vulnerable to rape and minors are unfortunately pressured/coerced and outright assaulted by others their age as well so any report should be treated seriously even if sounding outlandish as someone may be having difficulty processing or verbalizing what happened to them.  I felt like the way I wrote that post it sounded like one could automatically dismiss those types of reports while the reality is I believe they should be taken very seriously, but with awareness of the stat.

Link to comment
17 hours ago, Calm said:

True, I missed mentioning that point clearly because I was more focused on minors with minors (since those would be false reports if no force was involved) where it is legally consensual but a parent gets angry about it, so the child goes more they were forced when they weren’t or the parent won’t even let the kid say anything, but is insisting to the cops their kid was raped (I am channeling tv shows that may reflect reality at this point, too lazy to look up the descriptions in the studies that amounted to almost the same thing).

In particularly horrible situations at times the minor claims it was assault by another minor in an attempt to avoid or mitigate a real risk of serious parental abuse.

About half of sexual assault claims that were found to be non-credible were reported by someone other than the alleged victim. In other words only half of that percentage involved the alleged victim reporting the alleged crime.

Link to comment
5 hours ago, gopher said:

Unless the rules have changed, the companion will be sent home too.  It was his responsibility to keep an eye on his companion.  I'm glad the girl was brave enough to report it to the police, especially since she admitted there was consensual activity too.  It's a sad story.

I was out in the late 90s and my companion snuck out to meet his gf. They formed a relationship before I was transferred in. He went out at night to meet up with her. As far as i know this was always consensual. We found out after he went home when neighbor kids laughed about him sneaking into the house around midnight. I am 95% sure his previous companion was covering for him. Nothing happened to me or his previous companion.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, bluebell said:

If the companion allowed him to be alone, then he is probably feeling really really horrible, and wishing he could go back and make a different choice.

There are definitely times where missionaries can bend the rules a bit by taking the "always stay within sight and sound of your companion" rule to its limits. If the house or apartment you're in is a little more open, or if there is a door that is open leading into another room, some missionaries use that to justify a few things. Heck I know I did from time to time.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Calm said:

Could you please CFR that as it seems this is new to many, including me?

The mission president mentioned it at a stake leadership meeting within the past few years (he's going home soon).  I didn't check to make sure it's in the handbook for mission presidents, but he was clear that he also sends home the negligent companions of missionaries that commit serious offenses if they didn't obey the rule to be together always.  But if no one else has heard of this, then maybe it's a rule only in this mission.

Link to comment
4 hours ago, bluebell said:

Sometimes companions give each other the slip, so it could be a case of that.  I'm wondering if it happened late at night, since the Elder didn't seem to be concerned about someone randomly walking into the garage.  We had an elder in my mission get a girl he had just baptized pregnant, and that happened when he snuck out of his house one night and left his companion behind sleeping.

If the companion allowed him to be alone, then he is probably feeling really really horrible, and wishing he could go back and make a different choice.

I wonder if the companion was slightly afraid of this guy too. My son, I learned way after my son fulfilled his mission, was practically beat up after asking his companion for the missionary phone because his companion was under a blanket speaking to his girlfriend from home, back when they had more restrictions. And the dude was much larger than my son who is pretty short. And the mission president beg'd my son to hold off on getting a transfer because this guy had anger issues and the only one that could get along with him at the moment was my son. But luckily after a couple of weeks the violent companion was transferred out of there. He basically hit my son a couple of times, so not really beat up. But I think it's the same no matter how many hits. 

Link to comment
23 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

 Somewhere between 2-8% of SV allegations are false, made by lying horrible awful people lying about being victims.  Out of every hundred allegations of SV, half a dozen of them are utterly false. 

IME, the false rate is higher when talking about religiously sheltered people.   I know of more than one false report against young men in Utah of sexual misconduct that parents insisted their children claim because their "little girl would never willingly do that", and most of those were found guilty and sentenced to jail with long term negative impact on the young men who'd been falsely accused.   I tell young men that they cannot afford to have sex with anyone under the age of 22 outside of marriage because of the risk to themselves that no one will believe them or treat it as consensual even if it is.

Link to comment
8 hours ago, bluebell said:

I've not heard of this rule, nor ever heard of it happening.

I have, twice (though if I recall correctly, both of those involved situations where they  knowingly allowed the rule violations and didn't report it to the district leader immediately).    What missionary's parents would want their child assigned to a companion with a reputation for not following the rules and not being where they are supposed to be, doing what they are supposed to be doing.   Missionaries don't get to choose their companions and deserve to only have faithful ones.

Link to comment
8 hours ago, bluebell said:

I've not heard of this rule, nor ever heard of it happening.  

It was a risk when I was a missionary to many years ago. Not always, but yes a companion could  be sent home if they neglected to be with a companion and the companion did something that was a major violation of mission rule, standards and/or church commandments.  At least our mission president threatened us with that.  Maybe it was just to make sure we kept track of each other best we could.

Edited by Teancum
Link to comment
On 5/14/2024 at 4:12 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

Thousands of times, every year. Thousands of mostly men are victimized this way, every year. 

I have been thinking about this comment. While any miscarriage of justice is bad, given the low arrest and conviction rates for rape, even if accused, my guess is there are many more rapists who get off with the claim they were falsely accused than there are men who were falsely accused. Not sure how to find the data to compare though. 

Would also be nice to find the rate of falsely accused that have to deal with any serious consequences (I don’t see being questioned by police as  serious; losing a job or spouse or lover, having custody issues, being jailed, put on a sex registry I see as serious).

Just because there may be thousands who are falsely accused, doesn’t mean there is more than a handful whose lives actually get messed up. There may be more, but I think it is jumping to conclusions to assume even a ‘credible’ false accusation implies an innocent life ruined. 

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
5 hours ago, rpn said:

know of more than one false report against young men in Utah of sexual misconduct that parents insisted their children claim because their "little girl would never willingly do that", and most of those were found guilty and sentenced to jail with long term negative impact on the young men who'd been falsely accused. 

I am curious as to how you can be so certain they were false reports.  And how most were found guilty and jailed even though there are a low percentage of rape accusations that get convicted.  Not saying it didn’t happen, just sounds quite unusual.

I know of one case myself that was no doubt statutory rape (he was 19 and she was 15 iirc), but the mom of the girl knew and approved, even enabled by giving the two alcohol, until after the mom confronted his parents and it turned out he wasn’t planning on marrying the girl (he hadn’t promised according to him, knowing him I don’t think he did though maybe there was some fantasizing on what it would be like) and that is when she went to the cops.  I view it as still his responsibility though as he knew her age when he got involved with her. He was put on the sex offenders registry, but as far as I can tell nothing else happened to him, though his parents were terrified it was going to be worse. 

Link to comment
10 hours ago, Calm said:

I am curious as to how you can be so certain they were false reports.

Because I interviewed all the parties.   And when you're faced with prison and know your public defender treats you like he knows your are guilty an/or doesnt want to spend the time given the pay (or in one case because they are running for public office), pleading for reduced sentence seems the only good option.   In one of the cases, the girl felt forced to lie on the stand by her parents.

Link to comment

Deseret News: Latter-day Saint missionary from California arrested for allegedly sexually assaulting woman

Quote

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints immediately removed one of its missionaries from volunteer service when the California man was arrested Saturday in Utah after he allegedly sexually assaulted a woman.
...
“This individual was immediately removed from his volunteer missionary service as soon as the church learned of these very serious and troubling allegations,” the church said in a statement. “The church is cooperating fully with law enforcement in this investigation. Missionaries are expected to abide by the highest standards, and those who do not will be released and sent home, and in situations involving criminal allegations, also face loss of church membership.”

I hope critics take notice of this.  The Church really is paying attention to misconduct of this sort, and really does take what corrective/remedial measures as are available.  This contravenes the common narrative that the Church is indifferent to, or even complicit in, such misconduct.

Quote

Saratoga Springs police received a call and responded to a home where a woman said she was sexually assaulted by a man who lived across the street, according to a police booking affidavit, according to KSL.com. Officers found Hernandez standing in a driveway when they arrived. He told the officers he had been alone with the victim and the two “eventually had sex,” the affidavit stated, according to KSL.

Ah, I was right about the affidavit (here, the "booking affidavit").  It was from the police, not from Hernandez.

Quote

The woman told police she was alone in the garage with Hernandez when he began kissing her, “which she originally consented to,” according to the affidavit.

But Hernandez then became more forceful and sexually assaulted the victim even after she told him to stop, the affidavit alleged.

“Shortly after their friends came in the garage and told them to stop,” the report said, according to KSL.

"{T}heir friends."  I wonder if this includes the missionary's companion.  I would think that if the companion were present, the police would have noted it.

Also, the wording of the affidavit here is a bit odd: “Shortly after their friends came in the garage and told them to stop."  Perhaps the "friends" were under the impression that the contact was a consensual thing.  I would not be surprised if Hernandez's defense attorney scrutinizes this, as the "

I have not been able to locate the court docket for this case.  Not sure why.

Thanks,

-Smac

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I hope critics take notice of this.  The Church really is paying attention to misconduct of this sort, and really does take what corrective/remedial measures as are available.  This contravenes the common narrative that the Church is indifferent to, or even complicit in, such misconduct.

Critics should not be critical at all about this.  The Elder clearly made some poor choices.  As did the young women.  She had to know she should not be even kissing a missionary.  And if he want beyond consent then he is wrong. His bad choice has nothing to do with the church.

Link to comment
12 hours ago, Calm said:
Quote

know of more than one false report against young men in Utah of sexual misconduct that parents insisted their children claim because their "little girl would never willingly do that", and most of those were found guilty and sentenced to jail with long term negative impact on the young men who'd been falsely accused. 

I am curious as to how you can be so certain they were false reports.  And how most were found guilty and jailed even though there are a low percentage of rape accusations that get convicted.  Not saying it didn’t happen, just sounds quite unusual.

Sorting out the prevalence of false rape claims is a complex, difficult and sensitive matter.

Per this article, assessment of this issue is poor because, inter alia, "{t}he term 'rate of false rape allegations' is highly ambiguous; it has no agreed definition," and that "{r}eliable quantification of the rate of false rape allegations, even given a specific definition, remains elusive."  

This article posits that false reporting is 2-8%:

Quote

This may seem like a straightforward question, but in fact determining the percentage of false rape reports is complex. In the Online Training Institute (OLTI) module, False Reports: Moving Beyond the Issues to Successfully Investigate Sexual Assault, it is clearly stated that a report of sexual assault can only be determined to be false based on the evidence from a thorough investigation:

The determination that a sexual assault report is false can only be made if the evidence establishes that no crime was completed or attempted. This evidence will only be available after a thorough investigation, not after only a preliminary investigation or initial interview with the victim.

When methodologically rigorous research is conducted based on this definition, estimates for the percentage of false reports converge around 2-8%.

Per The National Sexual Violence Resource Center, "{a} review of research finds that the prevalence of false reporting is between 2 percent and 10 percent."

Per this article, "{t}he FBI has put the number of 'unfounded' rapes - those determined to be false after investigation - at 8%."

This 2018 CNN article makes some good points:

Quote

We’ve seen some high-profile cases in which men were wrongfully accused of sexual assault: for example, the Duke lacrosse players and the former football player whose alleged victim later admitted she wasn’t raped.

But those appear to be anomalies. Studies suggest the prevalence of false reporting on sexual assault is between 2% and 10%, according to the National Sexual Violence Resource Center.

And there’s a big caveat to those numbers: “Research shows that rates of false reporting are frequently inflated, in part because of inconsistent definitions and protocols,” the resource center said.

For example, some law enforcement agencies might label a rape claim as “false” just because there’s not enough corroborating evidence to prosecute. (Those cases would be more accurately described as “baseless” rather than “false.”)

“It does not mean that some form of sexual assault may not have occurred, but only that from the legal perspective … the case does not meet the legal criteria, or it is ‘baseless,’” the resource center said.

Thanks,

-Smac

Link to comment
3 hours ago, rpn said:

Because I interviewed all the parties.   And when you're faced with prison and know your public defender treats you like he knows your are guilty an/or doesnt want to spend the time given the pay (or in one case because they are running for public office), pleading for reduced sentence seems the only good option.   In one of the cases, the girl felt forced to lie on the stand by her parents.

I had forgotten you were a lawyer, a prosecutor I assume?  Got to ask (you may have noticed I like to know how things work, especially in comparison to what I gleaned from TV dramas, lol), why was the girl’s testimony in these cases accepted if it was known she was lying?

Link to comment
On 5/15/2024 at 10:12 AM, Stormin' Mormon said:

Nor was it the rule in my mission in the mid 90s. If there was a rule that changed it's more than 30 years in the rearview mirror at this point.  

Also, such a rule seems rather antithetical to the notion that men are punished for the misuse of their own agency.  

Well, there is an entire section of the missionary handbook devoted to staying together with your companion.  Mission presidents can send missionaries home for breaking any mission rules, including this one.  It becomes much more serious if you deliberately leave your companion alone and he commits serious crimes/sins.  I'm sure mission presidents will be using this example to reinforce the importance of companions staying together.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...