General Conference mention of the gospel of Abraham

[telnetd]

Regarding this 2024 General Conference article:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/april-2024-general-conference-president-nelson-teachings

Following the Savior’s visit, Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah appeared in 
turn to grant the keys of the gathering of Israel, the gospel of Abraham, and the sealing 
power upon Joseph Smith (see Doctrine and Covenants 110:11-16).

I came across a brief mention of it in section 5 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church 
History Seminary Teacher Manual

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-seminary-teacher-manual-2014/section-5/lesson-118-doctrine-and-covenants-110?lang=eng#figure1_p9

The dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, committed to Joseph Smith and Oliver 
Cowdery by Elias, restored the promises the Lord made with Abraham. To help students 
understand the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham restored by Elias, invite a 
student to read the following explanation by Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum 
of the Twelve Apostles:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie

“Elias brings back ‘the gospel of Abraham,’ the great Abrahamic covenant whereby the 
faithful receive promises of eternal increase, promises that through celestial marriage 
their eternal posterity shall be as numerous as the sands upon the seashore or as the 
stars in heaven for multitude. Elias gives the promise—received of old by Abraham, 
Isaac, and Jacob—that in modern men and in their seed all generations shall be blessed. 
And we are now offering the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to all who will 
receive them” (“The Keys of the Kingdom,” Ensign, May 1983, 22).

Does the establishment of having many wives and many concubines in the Old Testament
and among some Christians, as outlined in Doctrine and Covenants 132, derive from the
requirement and blessings for "much seed"? 

Is this comparable to the purported method by which Heavenly Father is said to have had 
billions and billions of spirit children across countless populated earths or does one 
exalted wife and one exalted husband have supernatural power to have this tremendous
amount of offspring?

[ZealouslyStriving]

14 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Regarding this 2024 General Conference article:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/april-2024-general-conference-president-nelson-teachings

Following the Savior’s visit, Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah appeared in 
turn to grant the keys of the gathering of Israel, the gospel of Abraham, and the sealing 
power upon Joseph Smith (see Doctrine and Covenants 110:11-16).

I came across a brief mention of it in section 5 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church 
History Seminary Teacher Manual

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-seminary-teacher-manual-2014/section-5/lesson-118-doctrine-and-covenants-110?lang=eng#figure1_p9

The dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, committed to Joseph Smith and Oliver 
Cowdery by Elias, restored the promises the Lord made with Abraham. To help students 
understand the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham restored by Elias, invite a 
student to read the following explanation by Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum 
of the Twelve Apostles:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie

“Elias brings back ‘the gospel of Abraham,’ the great Abrahamic covenant whereby the 
faithful receive promises of eternal increase, promises that through celestial marriage 
their eternal posterity shall be as numerous as the sands upon the seashore or as the 
stars in heaven for multitude. Elias gives the promise—received of old by Abraham, 
Isaac, and Jacob—that in modern men and in their seed all generations shall be blessed. 
And we are now offering the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to all who will 
receive them” (“The Keys of the Kingdom,” Ensign, May 1983, 22).

Does the establishment of having many wives and many concubines in the Old Testament
and among some Christians, as outlined in Doctrine and Covenants 132, derive from the
requirement and blessings for "much seed"? 

Is this comparable to the purported method by which Heavenly Father is said to have had 
billions and billions of spirit children across countless populated earths or does one 
exalted wife and one exalted husband have supernatural power to have this tremendous
amount of offspring?

I can only give my opinion:

I believe plural marriage is the order of the highest degree of Celestial Glory, as marriage is an essential characteristic of that glory and (daring to put women on a pedestal again) there will be more women than men worthy of said glory. Thus, I believe Heavenly Father has more than one wife by which *their* seed is continued.

As a believer in the validity of Doctrine and Covenants 132, I would also point to this verse:

"61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else. 62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified. 63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him

to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment,

and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world,

and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men;

for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified."

Edited April 10, 2024 by ZealouslyStriving

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, telnetd said:

Regarding this 2024 General Conference article:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/april-2024-general-conference-president-nelson-teachings

Following the Savior’s visit, Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah appeared in 
turn to grant the keys of the gathering of Israel, the gospel of Abraham, and the sealing 
power upon Joseph Smith (see Doctrine and Covenants 110:11-16).

I came across a brief mention of it in section 5 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church 
History Seminary Teacher Manual

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-seminary-teacher-manual-2014/section-5/lesson-118-doctrine-and-covenants-110?lang=eng#figure1_p9

The dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, committed to Joseph Smith and Oliver 
Cowdery by Elias, restored the promises the Lord made with Abraham. To help students 
understand the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham restored by Elias, invite a 
student to read the following explanation by Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum 
of the Twelve Apostles:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie

“Elias brings back ‘the gospel of Abraham,’ the great Abrahamic covenant whereby the 
faithful receive promises of eternal increase, promises that through celestial marriage 
their eternal posterity shall be as numerous as the sands upon the seashore or as the 
stars in heaven for multitude. Elias gives the promise—received of old by Abraham, 
Isaac, and Jacob—that in modern men and in their seed all generations shall be blessed. 
And we are now offering the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to all who will 
receive them” (“The Keys of the Kingdom,” Ensign, May 1983, 22).

Does the establishment of having many wives and many concubines in the Old Testament
and among some Christians, as outlined in Doctrine and Covenants 132, derive from the
requirement and blessings for "much seed"? 

Is this comparable to the purported method by which Heavenly Father is said to have had 
billions and billions of spirit children across countless populated earths or does one 
exalted wife and one exalted husband have supernatural power to have this tremendous
amount of offspring?

My belief is that exalted men and women will be resurrected with anatomically correct human bodies, including fully functional reproductive systems. Even now we all know that on this fallen earth healthy men have millions of living, active human seeds flourishing within their bodies at any given moment. This means all that would be necessary for exalted men and women to be able to theoretically produce millions of spiritual offspring would be for the reproductive systems of exalted women to be modified so as to to produce millions of eggs, and then countless millions of progeny would then be possible.

It’s key to understand that exalted men and women possess glorified resurrected bodies of flesh and bone, but their children will be spirits, and since spirit has far less material mass than flesh, this may very well mean that millions of spiritual offspring would be able to grow within an exalted woman’s womb because the physical mass of spirit bodies is materially far less dense than the matter of resurrected bodies. Because the physical mass of spirit is far, far less materially dense than the matter we are accustomed to in this universe, it may be theoretically possible to compress the finer physical mass of millions of gestating spirit children into the limited space of an exalted woman’s womb. It’s also theoretically possible that the millions of spiritual seed produced by exalted men, and the millions of spiritual eggs produced by exalted women, would be able to combine to form new life and gestate to maturity in a sacred places that exist somewhere outside of the wombs of exalted women.

I anticipate that there will be many here who will dismiss my ideas are crazy, but I have to chuckle because, following puberty, the physical body of the fully human Jesus Christ had millions of living male seed living and moving within his body at any given moment, thereby powerfully demonstrating it’s possible for the eternal God to have a functioning human reproductive system, without his functioning human reproductive system robbing him of his holiness and divinity.

Edited April 10, 2024 by teddyaware

[blackstrap]

Careful when swimming near the , " Whirlpool  of Speculation "

[Nofear]

I maintain by long standing position that we are told nothing about spirit children and spirit procreation perhaps because it would rather offend our sensibilities. I am convinced viviparous is not how Heavenly Mother beget probably trillions of children. Though, if one wants to extend teddyaware's idea that many, many, many spirit bodies are in her womb, viviparous birth of those many, many, many spirits would most definitely offend our sensibilities for it implies giving birth in much the same way we squeeze toothpaste out a tube. I don't "see" it. Not even going to try. I don't believe it. I don't think it is anything at all like that. Don't know what the right answer is. I'll content myself with this mystery.

[CV75]

3 hours ago, telnetd said:

Regarding this 2024 General Conference article:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/april-2024-general-conference-president-nelson-teachings

Following the Savior’s visit, Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah appeared in 
turn to grant the keys of the gathering of Israel, the gospel of Abraham, and the sealing 
power upon Joseph Smith (see Doctrine and Covenants 110:11-16).

I came across a brief mention of it in section 5 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church 
History Seminary Teacher Manual

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-seminary-teacher-manual-2014/section-5/lesson-118-doctrine-and-covenants-110?lang=eng#figure1_p9

The dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, committed to Joseph Smith and Oliver 
Cowdery by Elias, restored the promises the Lord made with Abraham. To help students 
understand the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham restored by Elias, invite a 
student to read the following explanation by Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum 
of the Twelve Apostles:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie

“Elias brings back ‘the gospel of Abraham,’ the great Abrahamic covenant whereby the 
faithful receive promises of eternal increase, promises that through celestial marriage 
their eternal posterity shall be as numerous as the sands upon the seashore or as the 
stars in heaven for multitude. Elias gives the promise—received of old by Abraham, 
Isaac, and Jacob—that in modern men and in their seed all generations shall be blessed. 
And we are now offering the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to all who will 
receive them” (“The Keys of the Kingdom,” Ensign, May 1983, 22).

Does the establishment of having many wives and many concubines in the Old Testament
and among some Christians, as outlined in Doctrine and Covenants 132, derive from the
requirement and blessings for "much seed"? 

Is this comparable to the purported method by which Heavenly Father is said to have had 
billions and billions of spirit children across countless populated earths or does one 
exalted wife and one exalted husband have supernatural power to have this tremendous
amount of offspring?

Please provide again your source for the term "much seed".

Sealing is an aspect of the Abrahamic covenant, and having many wives and concubines is a subset of sealing and sealing in the form of marriage. Elder Carpenter spoke of temple marriage as we practice it as a lateral and vertical sealing: https://www.thechurchnews.com/general-conference/2024/04/06/elder-matthew-l-carpenter-april-2024-general-conference-marriage-sealing-covenant/. "Lateral" means it is between the couple and "vertical" means it is between the couple, individually and together, and God.

The sealing is the primary means and method by which an exalted couple (wife and husband) have power to have innumerable offspring. Whatever else might be done to achieve that is done together within the lateral and vertical bond. Individuals cannot do it with a vertical sealing alone.

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, blackstrap said:

Careful when swimming near the , " Whirlpool  of Speculation "

And ... with trolls!

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

My belief is that exalted men and women will be resurrected with anatomically correct human bodies, including fully functional reproductive systems. Even now we all know that on this fallen earth healthy men have millions of living, active human seeds flourishing within their bodies at any given moment. This means all that would be necessary for exalted men and women to be able to theoretically produce millions of spiritual offspring would be for the reproductive systems of exalted women to be modified so as to to produce millions of eggs, and then countless millions of progeny would then be possible.

It’s key to understand that exalted men and women possess glorified resurrected bodies of flesh and bone, but their children will be spirits, and since spirit has far less material mass than flesh, this may very well mean that millions of spiritual offspring would be able to grow within an exalted woman’s womb because the physical mass of spirit bodies is materially far less dense than the matter of resurrected bodies. Because the physical mass of spirit is far, far less materially dense than the matter we are accustomed to in this universe, it may be theoretically possible to compress the finer physical mass of millions of gestating spirit children into the limited space of an exalted woman’s womb. It’s also theoretically possible that the millions of spiritual seed produced by exalted men, and the millions of spiritual eggs produced by exalted women, would be able to combine to form new life and gestate to maturity in a sacred places that exist somewhere outside of the wombs of exalted women.

I anticipate that there will be many here who will dismiss my ideas are crazy, but I have to chuckle because, following puberty, the physical body of the fully human Jesus Christ had millions of living male seed living and moving within his body at any given moment, thereby powerfully demonstrating it’s possible for the eternal God to have a functioning human reproductive system, without his functioning human reproductive system robbing him of his holiness and divinity.

That sounds like exalted beings are actually some kind of human-insect hybrid.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

My belief is that exalted men and women will be resurrected with anatomically correct human bodies, including fully functional reproductive systems.

And how will that work with the current system when blood is replaced with light as some claim will happen given the female reproductive system is blood based?

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That sounds like exalted beings are actually some kind of human-insect hybrid.

My mother’s image of heavenly mothers as termite queens seems less hyperbolic with Teddy’s speculation.

Edited April 10, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

, without his functioning human reproductive system robbing him of his holiness and divinity

I don’t think most protesting your idea on this board are doing so because they see sex and procreation as robbing anyone of holiness and divinity.

[CV75]

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

And how will that work with the current system when blood is replaced with light as some claim will happen given the female reproductive system is blood based?

Billions and billions of umbilical cords!

[mfbukowski]

41 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That sounds like exalted beings are actually some kind of human-insect hybrid.

Pretty true in some nations, in the Far-East if you choose to see them as "hive mentalities". Don't worry- we are already on that path anyway. 

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, telnetd said:

s this comparable to the purported method by which Heavenly Father is said to have had 
billions and billions of spirit children across countless populated earths or does one 
exalted wife and one exalted husband have supernatural power to have this tremendous
amount of offspring?

I wish we could get over these simple views mixing science with religion, with some vague notion of what "truth" is.

Yet again I mention the concept of the fallacy of the Category Error.  Religion is not science, it is more like poetry and deals with personal experiences from the subjective side of our personal experience, while science is about objective evidence.   Remember: Religion= Subjective, Science = Objective.  The most important decisions in life are made for subjective reasons.

What gives YOU purpose and happiness is not what others may find as giving them purpose and happiness.  It's hard to find out how God's sperm count could give anyone peace of mind, or cause them to change their lives.

😲

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/category-mistakes/

Edited April 10, 2024 by mfbukowski

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That sounds like exalted beings are actually some kind of human-insect hybrid.

Human-serpent... We'll lay lots of eggs.

Edited April 10, 2024 by ZealouslyStriving

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Pretty true in some nations, in the Far-East if you choose to see them as "hive mentalities". Don't worry- we are already on that path anyway. 

Desert=honeybees- honeybees have hives. The truth has been there the whole time!!!

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

And ... with trolls!

Hey, watch that racism!   🤨

[mfbukowski]

20 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Desert=honeybees- honeybees have hives. The truth has been there the whole time!!!

Hmmm.  Utahn Commies?   😱

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, telnetd said:

Regarding this 2024 General Conference article:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/april-2024-general-conference-president-nelson-teachings

Following the Savior’s visit, Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah appeared in 
turn to grant the keys of the gathering of Israel, the gospel of Abraham, and the sealing 
power upon Joseph Smith (see Doctrine and Covenants 110:11-16).

I came across a brief mention of it in section 5 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church 
History Seminary Teacher Manual

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-seminary-teacher-manual-2014/section-5/lesson-118-doctrine-and-covenants-110?lang=eng#figure1_p9

The dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, committed to Joseph Smith and Oliver 
Cowdery by Elias, restored the promises the Lord made with Abraham. To help students 
understand the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham restored by Elias, invite a 
student to read the following explanation by Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum 
of the Twelve Apostles:

Elder Bruce R. McConkie

“Elias brings back ‘the gospel of Abraham,’ the great Abrahamic covenant whereby the 
faithful receive promises of eternal increase, promises that through celestial marriage 
their eternal posterity shall be as numerous as the sands upon the seashore or as the 
stars in heaven for multitude. Elias gives the promise—received of old by Abraham, 
Isaac, and Jacob—that in modern men and in their seed all generations shall be blessed. 
And we are now offering the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to all who will 
receive them” (“The Keys of the Kingdom,” Ensign, May 1983, 22).

Does the establishment of having many wives and many concubines in the Old Testament
and among some Christians, as outlined in Doctrine and Covenants 132, derive from the
requirement and blessings for "much seed"? 

Is this comparable to the purported method by which Heavenly Father is said to have had 
billions and billions of spirit children across countless populated earths or does one 
exalted wife and one exalted husband have supernatural power to have this tremendous
amount of offspring?

The writings of Elder McConkie are quite a bit out of fashion of late, along with his Father-in-Law.   He was a wonderful man but times have changed.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Human-serpent... We'll lay lots of eggs.

I love it that it’s a guy saying “we’ll” lay eggs.

[ZealouslyStriving]

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

I love it that it’s a guy saying “we’ll” lay eggs.

Twain SHALL become one flesh... 👩‍❤️‍👨

[Calm]

7 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Twain SHALL become one flesh... 👩‍❤️‍👨

You can do the laying then.

[ZealouslyStriving]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

You can do the laying then.

🐓🐣🐣🐣🐣🐤🐤🐤

[Stargazer]

Nevermind

Edited April 11, 2024 by Stargazer

[MiserereNobis]

On 4/10/2024 at 9:44 AM, teddyaware said:

Even now we all know that on this fallen earth healthy men have millions of living, active human seeds flourishing within their bodies at any given moment. This means all that would be necessary for exalted men and women to be able to theoretically produce millions of spiritual offspring would be for the reproductive systems of exalted women to be modified so as to to produce millions of eggs, and then countless millions of progeny would then be possible.

Women are already born with a couple of million eggs.

On 4/10/2024 at 9:44 AM, teddyaware said:

It’s key to understand that exalted men and women possess glorified resurrected bodies of flesh and bone, but their children will be spirits, and since spirit has far less material mass than flesh, this may very well mean that millions of spiritual offspring would be able to grow within an exalted woman’s womb because the physical mass of spirit bodies is materially far less dense than the matter of resurrected bodies. Because the physical mass of spirit is far, far less materially dense than the matter we are accustomed to in this universe, it may be theoretically possible to compress the finer physical mass of millions of gestating spirit children into the limited space of an exalted woman’s womb. It’s also theoretically possible that the millions of spiritual seed produced by exalted men, and the millions of spiritual eggs produced by exalted women, would be able to combine to form new life and gestate to maturity in a sacred places that exist somewhere outside of the wombs of exalted women.

Like the Queen from "Aliens":

On 4/10/2024 at 9:44 AM, teddyaware said:

I anticipate that there will be many here who will dismiss my ideas are crazy, but I have to chuckle because, following puberty, the physical body of the fully human Jesus Christ had millions of living male seed living and moving within his body at any given moment, thereby powerfully demonstrating it’s possible for the eternal God to have a functioning human reproductive system, without his functioning human reproductive system robbing him of his holiness and divinity.

No one I know in my Catholic circles claims that Jesus did not have a human reproductive system or that said system robbed him of holiness and divinity

Edited April 11, 2024 by MiserereNobis