Place in the Church for Singles

[Teancum]

On 3/15/2024 at 12:02 AM, mfbukowski said:

@SeekingUnderstanding

I stand by what I actually said.

And I justified it with a philosophical explanation for my position.

Please don't put words in my mouth, it only reflects on you.

The words indicate a hypothetical position: "but one would also have to believe that men and women are not "the same".

And then I gave scientific evidence on numerous ways in which men and women ARE IN FACT DIFFERENT.

I justified that position also religiously- citing temple differences.

Then I cited a philosophical position justifying that belief, IF one takes that position.

And you come back with genital size, and shape as I implied you would.

Take your last word if you like, then goodbye.

I won't bother you again.

 

With all due respect but at times your comments are hard to follow and a bit of a word salad.  

[Analytics]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

With all due respect but at times your comments are hard to follow and a bit of a word salad.  

It seems to me that everyone is different and that the most important differences aren’t their sexual organs. You can learn a ton from marrying anyone that you wouldn’t learn by marrying anybody else, regardless of their sexual organs. Likewise, you can learn a ton about yourself and humanity as a whole by not getting married at all.

Isn’t that basically your point?

[morgan.deane]

On 3/13/2024 at 10:29 AM, Analytics said:

As I mentioned on another thread, last night I spent an hour with a gay exmo in an Uber. When I asked him why he left, he didn’t say anything about the law of chastity, gay marriage, or being inundated with the message that “Mormons hate gays.” Rather, he said that there isn’t a place in the Church for singles. 

Now obviously that is a bit of a hyperbole. Singles can be members of the Church and even get their endowments. However, they cannot get the crowning ordinance necessary for exaltation. That makes them second-class saints, doesn’t it? Of course there is always hope for marriage at a later date, but until then the card of what’s needed for exaltation will have a missing punch.

So how are singles treated in Church? What callings are they allowed to have or forbidden from having? 

According to traditional biblical Christianity, being single and celibate is better than marriage, but if you can’t control yourself get married (see 1 Corinthians 7). In other churches, being single is considered a good thing, but Mormonism turns that upside down.

My experience is similar to the handful of other late marrying people on this thread. Though I didn't marry late, I'm divorced and in my 40s.

Second class citizen is a pretty apt description. The experience of being single forever in the church is knowing you're different and less than in a thousand small ways. For example, I've had multiple Elder's quorum activities that consisted of "date nights" as though no one bothered to remember that some people don't have built in dates. My ward just had a valentines day activity like that. I've had to walk past giant walls filled with wedding announcements. Or the sacrament talks that are mostly annoying meet cutes. 

Some of the second classness is more implied, like the single's ward weekly institute teacher was younger and less qualified than me, but apparently he got the job because he was married. My daughter didn't get playdates because Mormon married women think its inappropriate to be seen talking to a single man. When I was in the hospital I'm not sure the relief society even knew, let alone cared, because again, single man. I've heard that called the "empathy gap." Even though they are literally a compassionate society, I've felt more compassion from some random government official when that hospital visit made me apply for help. 

You've seen some of it on this thread. You have lots of married people that feel the need to talk for us and about us. 

Every once in awhile you'll get some talk, doctrinal point, or stat that is supposed to make you feel better. The talks don't really help when you've been clinging to them for 20 years (in the case of High priest of good things to come) or 30 (the Hinckley talk on singles). Singles are supposedly half the population of the church, but I know of maybe 2 in my ward and that didn't change the valentines day "date night." Eventually you need something to change, not more lame happy talk. 

The idea that we'll get every blessing in the after life is the most counter productive thing ever. Never, ever, ever, say that to a single person. Whatever utility or comfort it might have ever brought is gone. Its the Mormon equivalent of life sucks and then you die. You have to wait your entire life watching pimply 20 years join the club, give the annoying meet cute stories in sacrament, and your reward is to wait until after you grow old and die. Sorry, but that's a really crappy way to try and make someone feel better.

I was friends with an executive secretary and he says 90% of mid singles are inactive. Not sure how they calculated that but it sounds about right. That's because eventually you notice and deeply feel two different value systems. One system says that you don't fit. You're over the hill. 20 years behind everyone else that got married 6 months after their missions. There are no options, especially if you aren't a super active, temple recommend holder. You missed your chance to be happy. As one of the my ex Mormon single friends said, and I hate that she is correct, the pressure is real, but the promised blessings aren't. 

Out in the world you meet women that value kindness and decency and not how often you bore yourself at church. You see lots of single people who are valuable leaders and contributors. In fact, you see lots of attractive singles! Not the same five mutants from table nine. You go to social activities that you enjoy, instead of, oh yeah, single people are welcome too, or here's some infantilizing kids games we threw together with 3 dollars and some paperclips.  And you're still considered fairly young and in the prime of your life. So of course one of those sound better and you pursue the one that makes you feel like a full citizen in life and not a second class one. 

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Teancum said:

With all due respect but at times your comments are hard to follow and a bit of a word salad.  

Yeah, I understand.

Honestly it's hard for me to pack lots of philosophy into fifty words or less.  Lotsa folks here write chapter length replies, and I suppose I should too.

Meh.

I guess I need to care more, OR pretend these replies are actual essays of import.

I don't know how some folks take it so seriously.

But I am old and working on stuff I consider...... very important, and tend to put more time into that.

I suppose I should pick one or the other.

Thanks my buddy! 👍

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, morgan.deane said:

My experience is similar to the handful of other late marrying people on this thread. Though I didn't marry late, I'm divorced and in my 40s.

Second class citizen is a pretty apt description. The experience of being single forever in the church is knowing you're different and less than in a thousand small ways. For example, I've had multiple Elder's quorum activities that consisted of "date nights" as though no one bothered to remember that some people don't have built in dates. My ward just had a valentines day activity like that. I've had to walk past giant walls filled with wedding announcements. Or the sacrament talks that are mostly annoying meet cutes. 

Some of the second classness is more implied, like the single's ward weekly institute teacher was younger and less qualified than me, but apparently he got the job because he was married. My daughter didn't get playdates because Mormon married women think its inappropriate to be seen talking to a single man. When I was in the hospital I'm not sure the relief society even knew, let alone cared, because again, single man. I've heard that called the "empathy gap." Even though they are literally a compassionate society, I've felt more compassion from some random government official when that hospital visit made me apply for help. 

You've seen some of it on this thread. You have lots of married people that feel the need to talk for us and about us. 

Every once in awhile you'll get some talk, doctrinal point, or stat that is supposed to make you feel better. The talks don't really help when you've been clinging to them for 20 years (in the case of High priest of good things to come) or 30 (the Hinckley talk on singles). Singles are supposedly half the population of the church, but I know of maybe 2 in my ward and that didn't change the valentines day "date night." Eventually you need something to change, not more lame happy talk. 

The idea that we'll get every blessing in the after life is the most counter productive thing ever. Never, ever, ever, say that to a single person. Whatever utility or comfort it might have ever brought is gone. Its the Mormon equivalent of life sucks and then you die. You have to wait your entire life watching pimply 20 years join the club, give the annoying meet cute stories in sacrament, and your reward is to wait until after you grow old and die. Sorry, but that's a really crappy way to try and make someone feel better.

I was friends with an executive secretary and he says 90% of mid singles are inactive. Not sure how they calculated that but it sounds about right. That's because eventually you notice and deeply feel two different value systems. One system says that you don't fit. You're over the hill. 20 years behind everyone else that got married 6 months after their missions. There are no options, especially if you aren't a super active, temple recommend holder. You missed your chance to be happy. As one of the my ex Mormon single friends said, and I hate that she is correct, the pressure is real, but the promised blessings aren't. 

Out in the world you meet women that value kindness and decency and not how often you bore yourself at church. You see lots of single people who are valuable leaders and contributors. In fact, you see lots of attractive singles! Not the same five mutants from table nine. You go to social activities that you enjoy, instead of, oh yeah, single people are welcome too, or here's some infantilizing kids games we threw together with 3 dollars and some paperclips.  And you're still considered fairly young and in the prime of your life. So of course one of those sound better and you pursue the one that makes you feel like a full citizen in life and not a second class one. 

Can’t argue with experience. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, morgan.deane said:

My daughter didn't get playdates because Mormon married women think its inappropriate to be seen talking to a single man. When I was in the hospital I'm not sure the relief society even knew, let alone cared, because again, single man. I've heard that called the "empathy gap." Even though they are literally a compassionate society, I've felt more compassion from some random government official when that hospital visit made me apply for help. 

This makes me weep (and I am not talking figuratively).  We should be so much more than this.

Edited March 17 by Calm

[Kenngo1969]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:19 AM, smac97 said:

... My wife regularly invites women in the ward to our house for tea parties.  The sisters, young and old, married/divorced/widowed/never-married, with children or not, all seem to really enjoy these activities.  ...

Herbal?  

Sorry.  Had to ask!

[Kenngo1969]

@morgan.deane

I'm sorry you've had (and are having) such a difficult experience.  I know I can't possibly relate, but, if it's worth anything, I hear you.

 

[The Nehor]

On 3/14/2024 at 4:42 PM, Doctor Steuss said:

I've only been to one single adult activity, and that was enough.  I had started attending church again (maybe mid/late-20's) after being inactive for a few years.  I was too old to attend University Ward stuff, so I cruised on over to a "single adult activity."  I was by far the youngest person, and as an added bonus, while at this little "meat market," I bumped into my childhood friend's mom.

The awkwardness is as fresh with recalling it, as it was with experiencing it.

Single adult socialization often make swinger’s clubs look healthy and well-adjusted by comparison. To be clear I really do not like swinger clubs.

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, morgan.deane said:

My experience is similar to the handful of other late marrying people on this thread. Though I didn't marry late, I'm divorced and in my 40s.

Second class citizen is a pretty apt description. The experience of being single forever in the church is knowing you're different and less than in a thousand small ways. For example, I've had multiple Elder's quorum activities that consisted of "date nights" as though no one bothered to remember that some people don't have built in dates. My ward just had a valentines day activity like that. I've had to walk past giant walls filled with wedding announcements. Or the sacrament talks that are mostly annoying meet cutes. 

Some of the second classness is more implied, like the single's ward weekly institute teacher was younger and less qualified than me, but apparently he got the job because he was married. My daughter didn't get playdates because Mormon married women think its inappropriate to be seen talking to a single man. When I was in the hospital I'm not sure the relief society even knew, let alone cared, because again, single man. I've heard that called the "empathy gap." Even though they are literally a compassionate society, I've felt more compassion from some random government official when that hospital visit made me apply for help. 

You've seen some of it on this thread. You have lots of married people that feel the need to talk for us and about us. 

Every once in awhile you'll get some talk, doctrinal point, or stat that is supposed to make you feel better. The talks don't really help when you've been clinging to them for 20 years (in the case of High priest of good things to come) or 30 (the Hinckley talk on singles). Singles are supposedly half the population of the church, but I know of maybe 2 in my ward and that didn't change the valentines day "date night." Eventually you need something to change, not more lame happy talk. 

The idea that we'll get every blessing in the after life is the most counter productive thing ever. Never, ever, ever, say that to a single person. Whatever utility or comfort it might have ever brought is gone. Its the Mormon equivalent of life sucks and then you die. You have to wait your entire life watching pimply 20 years join the club, give the annoying meet cute stories in sacrament, and your reward is to wait until after you grow old and die. Sorry, but that's a really crappy way to try and make someone feel better.

I was friends with an executive secretary and he says 90% of mid singles are inactive. Not sure how they calculated that but it sounds about right. That's because eventually you notice and deeply feel two different value systems. One system says that you don't fit. You're over the hill. 20 years behind everyone else that got married 6 months after their missions. There are no options, especially if you aren't a super active, temple recommend holder. You missed your chance to be happy. As one of the my ex Mormon single friends said, and I hate that she is correct, the pressure is real, but the promised blessings aren't. 

Out in the world you meet women that value kindness and decency and not how often you bore yourself at church. You see lots of single people who are valuable leaders and contributors. In fact, you see lots of attractive singles! Not the same five mutants from table nine. You go to social activities that you enjoy, instead of, oh yeah, single people are welcome too, or here's some infantilizing kids games we threw together with 3 dollars and some paperclips.  And you're still considered fairly young and in the prime of your life. So of course one of those sound better and you pursue the one that makes you feel like a full citizen in life and not a second class one. 

It is this. I avoid Single Adult Activities like the plague. Last time I told a leader that he offered to put me in charge of it thinking my ideas might be the ones that could fix it. I told him if the stake put me there I would burn it to the ground while laughing hysterically. If the Holy Ghost won’t cleanse the SA program with fire then someone else has to.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is this. I avoid Single Adult Activities like the plague. Last time I told a leader that he offered to put me in charge of it thinking my ideas might be the ones that could fix it. I told him if the stake put me there I would burn it to the ground while laughing hysterically. If the Holy Ghost won’t cleanse the SA program with fire then someone else has to.

What is it that prevents it from being decent?  Is it the budget or church restrictions on what you can do?  Or just expectations of looking to marry someone rather than approaching it as a place to make friends?  And awkwardness of hanging out with someone who you rejected as a dating partner, with or without dating, or who rejected you? 

What is stopping them from organizing activities like one would do with nonmember friends, like going to movies or out to eat, maybe take fun classes together, like pottery or painting?

I would think it would be fun to have a group of friends one could hang out with that is nondrinking.   Is the problem you just don’t have enough in common with most to form that kind of friendship?

 

Edited March 17 by Calm

[bluebell]

I had a great time in the single wards in my 20s but I can imagine why that stops in your 30s and 40s+. The age group included in those wards and activity groups seems way to broad to me.  If I was single right now in my 40s I would have no interest in going to social gatherings for singles that included people 60+.  Those people are my parents age and who wants to be "single and mingling" in the same group of peers as their parents?

Our RS president is single (and I think maybe a few years older than me), never married.  She has some stories!  But she's an amazing person.  I'm so glad I get to serve with her.

[Raingirl]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I had a great time in the single wards in my 20s but I can imagine why that stops in your 30s and 40s+. The age group included in those wards and activity groups seems way to broad to me.  If I was single right now in my 40s I would have no interest in going to social gatherings for singles that included people 60+.  Those people are my parents age and who wants to be "single and mingling" in the same group of peers as their parents?

Our RS president is single (and I think maybe a few years older than me), never married.  She has some stories!  But she's an amazing person.  I'm so glad I get to serve with her.

And people in their sixties don’t want to be in a group with people in their forties.  Except for the usual guys looking to date someone half their age. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Raingirl said:

And people in their sixties don’t want to be in a group with people in their forties.  Except for the usual guys looking to date someone half their age. 

Exactly.

[morgan.deane]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

What is it that prevents it from being decent?  Is it the budget or church restrictions on what you can do?  Or just expectations of looking to marry someone rather than approaching it as a place to make friends?  And awkwardness of hanging out with someone who you rejected as a dating partner, with or without dating, or who rejected you? 

What is stopping them from organizing activities like one would do with nonmember friends, like going to movies or out to eat, maybe take fun classes together, like pottery or painting?

I would think it would be fun to have a group of friends one could hang out with that is nondrinking.   Is the problem you just don’t have enough in common with most to form that kind of friendship?

 

That's a good question. Its a variety of factors that make singles activities extremely unhealthy ranging from internal dialogue, church dynamics, social dynamics, and how they interact with each other. Ironically enough, I'm not sure the activity is the problem, but its the singles and all those dynamics that would make just about any activity miserable. I should add that this is for midsingles ranging from about 30 to 45. I can't even imagine it getting worse after I hit 45.

The internal dynamics are that you feel so much pressure to get married. We know we aren't getting any younger. Like the Tennyson poem, we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven. We are torn between really wanting to be accepted, and having these dreams, but realizing we are hanging out with the undesirable leftovers.

The church dynamics mean we are often stuck doing really cheap and lame activities. We often have chaperones to events. This was more insulting when I was late YSA. But it still happens often. We have no budget for good activities so its often things thrown together. Like we had this Halloween "carnival" that was one guy that brought his computer to play some 3 d games (which was very fun tbh), but another was like fishing with string and paper clips for various missionary activities and a piece of candy when they commitment patterned us to say yes. 

In a larger sense the church dynamics mean we don't fit, but also that the standards are so high that we are guaranteed not to fit. We don't get married and stay married at 20. But all the women want an active temple recommend holder. You'd think everyone with a horrible story about why their temple marriage was run off into a ditch would recognize that having a recommend doesn't guarantee quality. But they have their gospel checklist that they made when they were 17 and they are sticking to it. Because I don't experience it I can't comment as well about the women, but many guys still want a traditional stay at home wife and they get intimidated by strong women with a career, which is odd considering it should be more concerning if a single parent didn't at least have a job to support their family.  

Outside of those factors, the quality is bad. I show up and sometimes I think to myself, are these my dating options or the front line of the Green Bay Packers? Did they just call for Han Solo to be put in carbonite? I know that sounds mean, but I'm sure all the married people out there went up and talked to their future spouse because they thought they were dumpy and ugly. I just want what everyone else has and that includes the spark of attraction.

It doesn't help that every activity is loaded with sugary junk food. I saw one girl not get a bun for her burger and her key chain had the same fitness club as me, (unsurprisingly, she was the cutest one there), but otherwise I'm the only person that seems to try. There are lots of people with mental problems as well. I don't know what to say, I feel really bad for them and maybe having some serious dating or life coaches can help. I hear from my girls that are friends that many guys also live in their parent's basements or have a criminal record. 

And then you have the normal social difficulties amplified by all of the above and decades of failure. You're scared of yet more rejection, shy, often introverted, but feel the pressure to be social and want to be accepted  with all your heart (but you're second class even among the second class people because you don't have a recommend), you're sick of the "you're so great speech" as you get dumped, you have eternity riding on the first 30 seconds of every interaction it seems. You have apostles say that its wrong to just "hang out." (Even though the relaxed, intimate social settings are where I do best, and ironically, get more dates.) So all of our actions feel like the words of the TS Eliot poem: Shape without form, shade without color, paralyzed force, gesture without motion...quiet and meaningless...As wind in dry grass Or rats' feet over broken glass

Even if you take the romantic angle out of it, I don't even have fun hanging out with the other singles. I try my best to be open and friendly, but they aren't entertaining or engaging people. They are boring. There is no way to change it which adds to the hopelessness and decade after decade of unfulfilled desire. 

There are some groups that do unofficial activities. Over holiday weekends people love coming to Vegas so we get good crowds. But its often the same clique of people from the single's ward with the same dysfunction. I go with them to activities and they talk over me, ignore what I have to say, and spend their time gossiping. I once got all tea about St. George...and I live in Vegas. I remember a Memorial day pool party. Sounds fun right, lots of barbecue and I even got a decent picture for social media. But when I left I walked around the backyard three times and no one noticed me, waved or said goodbye, so I did the Irish good bye. I went home that night and dreamed that I was the invisible Avenger. We went to a restaurant for my birthday but Iron Man and Dr. Strange got in a fight, damaged a pillar, and were kicked out of the restaurant. (Wong fixed it though because he's cool.) So I sat there by myself and wished at least on my birthday the other avengers would care. 

I usually have more fun on my own. There is an arcade bar that lets me play mario kart all night, I grab a coke and a hot dog and I end up talking to more people and having a better time than I do at singles activities. But, I don't really fit in there. I'm kind of goofy and too Mormon for the bar crowd. And then I have no chance of finding the dream of a cute Mormon girl that has been deeply instilled in me since I was a kid. So I go along anyway to the church activities. 

All of the above combines to form a gordian knot of toxic, depressing, hopeless dysfunction. I don't have fun in the least, in fact, I am absolutely, completely miserable. And someone from the sunshine police always comes along to tell me just to smile more or put myself out there...oh gee really, thats all I needed after all these decades? I'm too Mormon for non Mormons, but not Mormon enough for Mormon girls, but I feel compelled to at least try. Its tough to even describe so I'm sorry if this was all over the place.

Anyways, thanks everyone for the kind and accepting words. I don't have many places to share this so I appreciate you letting me share. 
 

Edited March 17 by morgan.deane

[california boy]

30 minutes ago, morgan.deane said:

That's a good question. Its a variety of factors that make singles activities extremely unhealthy ranging from internal dialogue, church dynamics, social dynamics, and how they interact with each other. Ironically enough, I'm not sure the activity is the problem, but its the singles and all those dynamics that would make just about any activity miserable. 

The internal dynamics are that you feel so much pressure to get married. We know we aren't getting any younger. Like the Tennyson poem, we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven. We are torn between really wanting to be accepted, and having these dreams, but realizing we are hanging out with the undesirable leftovers.

The church dynamics mean we are often stuck doing really cheap and lame activities. We often have chaperones to events. This was more insulting when I was late YSA. But it still happens often. We have no budget for good activities so its often things thrown together. Like we had this Halloween "carnival" that was one guy that brought his computer to play some 3 d games (which was very fun tbh), but another was like fishing with string and paper clips for various missionary activities and a piece of candy when they commitment patterned us to say yes. 

In a larger sense the church dynamics mean we don't fit, but also that the standards are so high that we are guaranteed not to fit. We don't get married and stay married at 20. But all the women want an active temple recommend holder. You'd think everyone with a horrible story about why their temple marriage was run off into a ditch would recognize that having a recommend doesn't guarantee quality. But they have their gospel checklist that they made when they were 17 and they are sticking to it. Because I don't experience it I can't comment as well about the women, but many guys still want a traditional stay at home wife and they get intimidated by strong women with a career, which is odd considering it should be more concerning if a single parent didn't at least have a job to support their family.  

Outside of those factors, the quality is bad. I show up and sometimes I think to myself, are these my dating options or the front line of the Green Bay Packers? Did they just call for Han Solo to be put in carbonite? I know that sounds mean, but I'm sure all the married people out there went up and talked to their future spouse because they thought they were dumpy and ugly. I just want what everyone else has and that includes the spark of attraction.

It doesn't help that every activity is loaded with sugary junk food. I saw one girl not get a bun for her burger and her key chain had the same fitness club as me, (unsurprisingly, she was the cutest one there), but otherwise I'm the only person that seems to try. There are lots of people with mental problems as well. I don't know what to say, I feel really bad for them and maybe having some serious dating or life coaches can help. I hear from my girls that are friends that many guys also live in their parent's basements or have a criminal record. 

And then you have the normal social difficulties amplified by all of the above and decades of failure. You're scared of yet more rejection, shy, often introverted, but feel the pressure to be social and want to be accepted  with all your heart (but you're second class even among the second class people because you don't have a recommend), you're sick of the "you're so great speech" as you get dumped, you have eternity riding on the first 30 seconds of every interaction it seems. You have apostles say that its wrong to just "hang out." (Even though the relaxed, intimate social settings are where I do best, and ironically, get more dates.) So all of our actions feel like the words of the TS Eliot poem: Shape without form, shade without color, paralyzed force, gesture without motion...quiet and meaningless...As wind in dry grass Or rats' feet over broken glass

Even if you take the romantic angle out of it, I don't even have fun hanging out with the other singles. I try my best to be open and friendly, but they aren't entertaining or engaging people. They are boring. There is no way to change it which adds to the hopelessness and decade after decade of unfulfilled desire. 

There are some groups that do unofficial activities. Over holiday weekends people love coming to Vegas so we get good crowds. But its often the same clique of people from the single's ward with the same dysfunction. I go with them to activities and they talk over me, ignore what I have to say, and spend their time gossiping. I once got all tea about St. George...and I live in Vegas. I remember a Memorial day pool party. Sounds fun right, lots of barbecue and I even got a decent picture for social media. But when I left I walked around the backyard three times and no one noticed me, waved or said goodbye, so I did the Irish good bye. I went home that night and dreamed that I was the invisible Avenger. We went to a restaurant for my birthday but Iron Man and Dr. Strange got in a fight, damaged a pillar, and were kicked out of the restaurant. (Wong fixed it though because he's cool.) So I sat there by myself and wished at least on my birthday the other avengers would care. 

I usually have more fun on my own. There is an arcade bar that lets me play mario kart all night, I grab a coke and a hot dog and I end up talking to more people and having a better time than I do at singles activities. But, I don't really fit in there. I'm kind of goofy and too Mormon for the bar crowd. And then I have no chance of finding the dream of a cute Mormon girl that has been deeply instilled in me since I was a kid. So I go along anyway to the church activities. 

All of the above combines to form a gordian knot of toxic, depressing, hopeless dysfunction. I don't have fun in the least, in fact, I am absolutely, completely miserable. And someone from the sunshine police always comes along to tell me just to smile more or put myself out there...oh gee really, thats all I needed after all these decades? I'm too Mormon for non Mormons, but not Mormon enough for Mormon girls, but I feel compelled to at least try. Its tough to even describe so I'm sorry if this was all over the place.

Anyways, thanks everyone for the kind and accepting words. I don't have many places to share this so I appreciate you letting me share. 
 

So sorry to hear this. It is hard to hear. I have a daughter in her 40’s and never married. I am pretty sure she has given up getting married and all the promises that go with that.  I feel like she is also caught in the middle. Too Mormon to fit with the non-Mormon crowd and just not seeing any future with the single adult crowd. I wish I could give her some advice but I also see no path forward for her.  She has become the best ever aunt to my grandchildren however and I hope in some small way that helps her

 

on the up side, you make being gay sound like a cake walk

Edited March 17 by california boy

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Raingirl said:

And people in their sixties don’t want to be in a group with people in their forties.  Except for the usual guys looking to date someone half their age. 

I am shocked I hadn’t realized it wasn’t split out or rather they actually had older singles for those over 50.  A sad example of how members don’t pay attention to what goes on in older adult singles’ lives.  I am embarrassed and a bit ashamed.

Given the high number of singles these days, they should break it off by decade imo.  Push the idea this is about friendship and not marriage…though who would believe at this point.

And give them a really nice budget and allow them to contribute their own funds to upgrade activities.  If leadership wants them to stay active they have to tailor it to the age level.  Making do with and coming up with clever, silly activities lost it appeal probably by the time anyone hits 30.  Tastes change and the challenge is belittling rather than taking pride in it, imo.

Maybe even something quite meaningful, like taking on helping one of them fix up a room or clean up a yard in their residence each month…has to be someone who has helped with previous fixer uppers.  Cover cost of paint and basic tools and then let the individual add whatever they want in addition.  Even if all they do it paint or peel and stick wall paper if renting, it could cheer people up and get them motivated to improve their living situation.

Or taking community continuing education classes together.  Pair people up that have the same interests.

Quote

maybe having some serious dating or life coaches can help.

I wonder how you could work that into options available without coming across as insulting (makeover events one volunteers for?)

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You have apostles say that it’s wrong to just "hang out." 

This really needs to change.

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 try my best to be open and friendly, but they aren't entertaining or engaging people. They are boring.

Which creates the need for a substance laden activity, something worthwhile to do even if with boring people.  

Edited March 17 by Calm

[Calm]

44 minutes ago, morgan.deane said:

We often have chaperones to events

They just sent an email in my stake asking for chaperones to a singles event.  My thought was if they aren’t old enough to control themselves by now, that’s on them, not the Church.  The Church shouldn’t treat them like hormone exploding teens.  It’s insulting and counterproductive, imo….outsiders observing the zoo is going to create a sense of awkwardness, less likely to relax and open up with each other.

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am shocked I hadn’t realized it wasn’t split out or rather they actually had older singles for those over 50.  A sad example of how members don’t pay attention to what goes on in older adult singles’ lives.  I am embarrassed and a bit ashamed.

I think it's stupid.  I'm sure it's a numbers thing, in that they wouldn't have enough people theoretically attending if they didn't include such a broad age range, but given the goals, such an age range is probably hurting way more than it's helping.

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

They just sent an email in my stake asking for chaperones to a singles event.  My thought was if they aren’t old enough to control themselves by now, that’s on them, not the Church.  The Church shouldn’t treat them like hormone exploding teens.  It’s insulting and counterproductive, imo….outsiders observing the zoo is going to create a sense of awkwardness, less likely to relax and open up with each other.

Agreed.  Having adult singles chaperoned makes no sense.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, morgan.deane said:

but I feel compelled to at least try. Its tough to even describe so I'm sorry if this was all over the place.

You conveyed it quite well.  I experienced the invisibility as a teen and college student.  Went to a couple of dances, but was never asked to dance.  We were assigned blind dates for one dance, I got all dressed up and saw my roommates go off with theirs one by one…mine never came.

[morgan.deane]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

You conveyed it quite well.  I experienced the invisibility as a teen and college student.  Went to a couple of dances, but was never asked to dance.  We were assigned blind dates for one dance, I got all dressed up and saw my roommates go off with theirs one by one…mine never came.

Thanks. Someday I want to write a dark comedy about all my horrible dating experiences but I'm afraid it will just be dark. 

[Teancum]

20 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Yeah, I understand.

Honestly it's hard for me to pack lots of philosophy into fifty words or less.  Lotsa folks here write chapter length replies, and I suppose I should too.

Meh.

I don't know how some folks take it so seriously.

But I am old and working on stuff I consider...... very important, and tend to put more time into that.

I suppose I should pick one or the other.

Thanks my buddy! 👍

I appreciate your efforts. 😀

[Peacefully]

I’ve been in the adult singles group twice in my life, once because of divorce and once because I was widowed. I went to a lot of activities, some more successful than others. I went out with some weirdos and some players before I met my current husband at an adult single’s Thanksgiving dinner ( where he made a very bad first impression, so I thought “next” but he called and asked me out two weeks later and acted like a normal human being so I gave him a second chance, lol). Some of the best times I had were with a group of singles, men and women, I met through LDSSingles website. A group of us from several parts of the US and one person from Australia met up in SLC for dinner and a party and General Conference. At least one marriage came out of that group. I have lots of stories about being an older single member. The struggle is real. 

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, bluebell said:

I had a great time in the single wards in my 20s but I can imagine why that stops in your 30s and 40s+. The age group included in those wards and activity groups seems way to broad to me.  If I was single right now in my 40s I would have no interest in going to social gatherings for singles that included people 60+.  Those people are my parents age and who wants to be "single and mingling" in the same group of peers as their parents?

Our RS president is single (and I think maybe a few years older than me), never married.  She has some stories!  But she's an amazing person.  I'm so glad I get to serve with her.

The YSA program is much better.