Leaf474 Posted February 15 Posted February 15 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-10-holdings-mormon-churchs-044459154.html "The investment arm of the Mormon Church revealed some of its holdings in a 13F filing on Wednesday."
Pyreaux Posted February 16 Posted February 16 4 hours ago, Leaf474 said: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-10-holdings-mormon-churchs-044459154.html "The investment arm of the Mormon Church revealed some of its holdings in a 13F filing on Wednesday." Only 50 Billion? Where does that leave the rest of the 100 Billion in? Is it then mostly Real-estate? If so, are they counting all Church and Temple as investment property, too? 1
Leaf474 Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 12 hours ago, Pyreaux said: Only 50 Billion? Where does that leave the rest of the 100 Billion in? Is it then mostly Real-estate? If so, are they counting all Church and Temple as investment property, too? Great question. I think more financial transparency would be good. Proverbs 4:18 The path of the righteous is like the dawning light that shines more and more until the perfect day.
Tacenda Posted February 16 Posted February 16 57 minutes ago, Leaf474 said: Great question. I think more financial transparency would be good. Proverbs 4:18 The path of the righteous is like the dawning light that shines more and more until the perfect day. Transparency and plans to give back more to the members themselves. Who pay tithes.. And if it's going to run like a business in some ways, maybe use feedback from members on how to share that wealth in making the world a better place while also helping the members out. With leaving their tithing donations in their wards and stakes to cover expenses such as camps etc. And also church buildings that are falling apart. I've seen it and it's still happening in a building I play pickleball in. I guess things broken just stay broken. No matter how many times the members ask for help. 1
Calm Posted February 16 Posted February 16 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tacenda said: And if it's going to run like a business in some ways, maybe use feedback from members on how to share that wealth in making the world a better place while also helping the members out. The thing about our church is the leaders are from the pool of members who receive on the job training for their callings. They likely come from families that also have a lot of members that can share opinions with, keep them in touch with the opinions of their own wards and stakes plus they have been doing surveys for a long time on how and what members perceive, including on what members want done. I participated in such a study back in 2004 or 5 myself, nothing major and not welfare, but have heard of others covering lots of topics. So I suspect they have had a lot of feedback over the years on where the money needs to go, including from the people that actually need it. They have, after all, a major department devoted to this effort with LDS Philanthropies. Sharon Eubank mentioned in her FAIR presentation years ago how she traveled around as head of this organization checking out areas worldwide for what needs they have, checking with the locals and then having meetings with upper level leaders who would respond quickly when that was necessary. I assume they have gotten even better setting up a bigger and bigger network of charity communications, especially as the Church grows in areas of greater need. Edited February 16 by Calm 3
Pyreaux Posted February 16 Posted February 16 I'm just curious. I can think of a few reasons not to spend it and not being miserly about it. Investing it in stocks alone is great to boost the economy while potentially growing the tithes for very ambitious plans is better than hoarding it in some non-Church bank or dumping in some non-Church charity, they can't micro-manage. As I trust the church to use every penny wisely, no sense in broad nor token gestures. Wealth redistribution ideas are not the best thought out, we plebians don't always know the best ways to use money. Any of us win the lottery, odds are we are broke again in a year. We vote for politicians promising something for nothing. I suspect the feedback from members might not yield the best results. Unlike taxes, it's not the member's money and it's not for the common good. We aren't owed a piece or a vote. 4
The Nehor Posted February 16 Posted February 16 4 hours ago, Pyreaux said: Wealth redistribution ideas are not the best thought out, we plebians don't always know the best ways to use money. I have seen little evidence that the patrician class is better at this. 3
Pyreaux Posted February 16 Posted February 16 27 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I have seen little evidence that the patrician class is better at this. Touché, but I never seen wealth redistribution anywhere eliminate the poor, therefore there are many ways to do it wrong. I don't know what the commoners expect to happen when they get their wishes. Like in the Tragedy of the Commons. Anyone suggesting the church to use up more money or pay more taxes to spend on the poor, all I hear is Judas ridiculing a woman for buying oils for Jesus, instead of giving that money to the poor. For Judas, like politicians, only cared because he held the money bag. 1
The Nehor Posted February 16 Posted February 16 24 minutes ago, Pyreaux said: Touché, but I never seen wealth redistribution anywhere eliminate the poor, therefore there are many ways to do it wrong. I don't know what the commoners expect to happen when they get their wishes. Like in the Tragedy of the Commons. Anyone suggesting the church to use up more money or pay more taxes to spend on the poor, all I hear is Judas ridiculing a woman for buying oils for Jesus, instead of giving that money to the poor. For Judas, like politicians, only cared because he held the money bag. Generally the goal of such schemes is to mitigate poverty and not to eliminate it. For some reason the wealthy and powerful don’t seem to want an egalitarian society. Go figure. 2
Analytics Posted February 16 Posted February 16 (edited) 20 hours ago, Pyreaux said: Only 50 Billion? Where does that leave the rest of the 100 Billion in? Is it then mostly Real-estate? If so, are they counting all Church and Temple as investment property, too? It’s $50 billion in publicly traded stock of large U.S. corporations, held by Ensign Peak Advisors. As-of February 2018, Ensign Peak Advisors targeted 44% of its assets to be in this category. Assuming Ensign Peak’s portfolio is balanced to its targets, in addition to the $50 billion in US Equity, Ensign Peaks owns: $12.5 Billion of international equity $5.7 Billion of private equity $11.4 Billion of Hybrid securities $31.8 Billion of Credit/Duration securities $2.27 Billion of Cash That should add up to about $114 billion of assets owned by Ensign Peak Advisors. If the other assets in the Church’s overall portfolio grew at the same rate, it also has: $10.2 billion owned by the Church proper (i.e. not Ensign Peak Advisors. about two thirds of that would be in the Church’s treasury, with the remainder in affiliated assets such as the BYU endowment and Deseret Trust) $24 billion in commercial real estate. Adding all of that up comes to about $148 billion. Edited February 16 by Analytics 3
Leaf474 Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 6 hours ago, Tacenda said: Transparency and plans to give back more to the members themselves. Who pay tithes.. And if it's going to run like a business in some ways, maybe use feedback from members on how to share that wealth in making the world a better place while also helping the members out. With leaving their tithing donations in their wards and stakes to cover expenses such as camps etc. 6 hours ago, Tacenda said: And also church buildings that are falling apart. I've seen it and it's still happening in a building I play pickleball in. I guess things broken just stay broken. No matter how many times the members ask for help. Very interesting. Also, pickleball inside the church building?
Leaf474 Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 I think the best reason to give to the poor is that "...where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6 If anyone's interested, we can talk about this more here or in General Discussions or wherever.
Pyreaux Posted February 16 Posted February 16 41 minutes ago, Leaf474 said: I think the best reason to give to the poor is that "...where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6 If anyone's interested, we can talk about this more here or in General Discussions or wherever. I think it's okay to discuss it anywhere it fits. We'll probably never not bicker about this old issue at every new news incident. Do you think your verse distinguishes between individual people and say the Temple treasury of Jerusalem as an institution? When should the widow demand her mite back from that wealthy institution?
Calm Posted February 16 Posted February 16 (edited) 2 hours ago, Leaf474 said: Very interesting. Also, pickleball inside the church building? They all have basketball courts, though typically called cultural halls. Where we have wedding receptions, ward parties and other activities. Usually has a stage as well. Edited February 16 by Calm 1
Tacenda Posted February 16 Posted February 16 2 hours ago, Leaf474 said: Very interesting. Also, pickleball inside the church building? Several churches in my area now have painted lines for pickleball and it's been absolutely wonderful. Got to give the church kudos for this idea. Not all, but several in the Davis County Utah area. Not sure about the rest. 1
Pyreaux Posted February 16 Posted February 16 My ward in Louisiana redid the gym, removed the commercial carpet, new hardwood floors. I don't know why.
longview Posted February 17 Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, Pyreaux said: My ward in Louisiana redid the gym, removed the commercial carpet, new hardwood floors. I don't know why. Because of basketball or other sports. There is too much stopping power on carpets leading to knee or ankle injuries. Hardwood floors allow less friction for gym shoes.
Leaf474 Posted February 17 Author Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Pyreaux said: I think it's okay to discuss it anywhere it fits. We'll probably never not bicker about this old issue at every new news incident. 2 hours ago, Pyreaux said: Do you think your verse distinguishes between individual people and say the Temple treasury of Jerusalem as an institution? No, I don't think it does distinguish. 2 hours ago, Pyreaux said: When should the widow demand her mite back from that wealthy institution? I don't think she should. If she gave it to God, that's great! If those in charge of the temple wealth have begun to treasure it, then it would probably be good for them to walk away from it, imo.
Leaf474 Posted February 17 Author Posted February 17 1 hour ago, Calm said: They all have basketball courts, though typically called cultural halls. Where we have wedding receptions, ward parties and other activities. Usually has a stage as well. The Ward I visited had a basketball court laid out on the carpet of what appeared to be the main meeting place. The retractable backboards and hoops and so on. Is that common?
Calm Posted February 17 Posted February 17 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Leaf474 said: The Ward I visited had a basketball court laid out on the carpet of what appeared to be the main meeting place. The retractable backboards and hoops and so on. Is that common? Carpet was a thing for awhile, but most have wood floors. Not sure about retractable or not, how common those are. The carpet was to keep noise down. They would have classes in the hall with room dividers between them, but I talked to my husband and as far as we remember, it was decades ago that they did that, though we just may have been in larger chapels that didn’t need to make temporary rooms. Edited February 17 by Calm 1
bluebell Posted February 17 Posted February 17 14 hours ago, Calm said: Carpet was a thing for awhile, but most have wood floors. Not sure about retractable or not, how common those are. The carpet was to keep noise down. They would have classes in the hall with room dividers between them, but I talked to my husband and as far as we remember, it was decades ago that they did that, though we just may have been in larger chapels that didn’t need to make temporary rooms. They do that in our ward building every Sunday. It was built in the early 90s and has carpet in the gym. 2
Calm Posted February 17 Posted February 17 (edited) 10 minutes ago, bluebell said: They do that in our ward building every Sunday. It was built in the early 90s and has carpet in the gym. Is it a smaller building? I am trying to remember if we used the dividers up in Canada before the extension was built on. I was always in primary and in classrooms. We did not have carpet in the cultural hall, but the dividers were the same. Carpet was probably a lot cheaper than the wood. Maybe it was used when they were having to build quite a few and did not have the money reserves they have now. Edited February 17 by Calm
bluebell Posted February 17 Posted February 17 36 minutes ago, Calm said: Is it a smaller building? I am trying to remember if we used the dividers up in Canada before the extension was built on. I was always in primary and in classrooms. We did not have carpet in the cultural hall, but the dividers were the same. Carpet was probably a lot cheaper than the wood. Maybe it was used when they were having to build quite a few and did not have the money reserves they have now. I'm not sure how to tell. It's not a stake center. Three wards attend it. It's definitely in the early 90s style of blues and pinks. The ward I grew up in in northern wyoming (the one my parents still go to) is in a chapel that was built by the members back when that was a thing. It has a wood floor in the gym. That stake built a brand new chapel in town about 20 years ago and it's gym floor is wooden. But their stake center gym floor is carpeted. I'm not sure when it was built. Our chapel has a carpeted cultural center but our stake building has wooden. It's a mixed bag. 1
bluebell Posted February 17 Posted February 17 41 minutes ago, Calm said: Is it a smaller building? I am trying to remember if we used the dividers up in Canada before the extension was built on. I was always in primary and in classrooms. We did not have carpet in the cultural hall, but the dividers were the same. Carpet was probably a lot cheaper than the wood. Maybe it was used when they were having to build quite a few and did not have the money reserves they have now. Whoever designed our building wasn't too smart though. The primary isn't in a room, it's in an area off of the cultural hall that is only separated from the hall by one of those accordion "walls". And since we have Sunday School in that room it means that no one can hear what anyone is saying whenever the primary kids are singing. It's incredibly annoying. 1
TheTanakas Posted February 17 Posted February 17 In addition to what @Analytics posted here, I would speculate the church also has an undisclosed amount in gold and silver. Cash and stocks won't help much if there's a significant financial crisis. If the LDS investors are savvy, let's throw in some BTC and ETH too. 2
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