End Times

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Uh oh. 

Indeed. 

[manol]

7 hours ago, ksfisher said:

I wonder what problem my brain was trying to solve a couple of nights ago when I had a dream that a baby bear was following me in the forest and I couldn't shake it.

My magic 8-ball says:

"There is something in your life, in the background for now, that is not yet a big problem but, if you do not address it, has the potential to become a really big problem."

At least that's what I think it says.  The writing is teeny-tiny. 

[JLHPROF]

Leaving aside the apocalyptic doomsayers I still think it's fascinating how few latter-day saints actually believe we're anywhere close to the end of the world.

Somewhere we stopped being a millennialist Church.  The idea that building Zion for the Lord's imminent second coming and the New Jerusalem doesn't seem to fit our current perspective much.

Do we even believe we're living in the literal last days anymore?

Matthew 24 describes a timeline for the end but it's anybody's guess how far along it we are.  It's the warning at the end I think best describes our current attitude.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Edited March 7, 2024 by JLHPROF

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Leaving aside the apocalyptic doomsayers I still think it's fascinating how few latter-day saints actually believe we're anywhere close to the end of the world.

Somewhere we stopped being a millennialist Church.  The idea that building Zion for the Lord's imminent second coming and the New Jerusalem doesn't seem to fit our current perspective much.

Do we even believe we're living in the literal last days anymore?

Matthew 24 describes a timeline for the end but it's anybody's guess how far along it we are.  It's the warning at the end I think best describes our current attitude.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Except some signs have been given to keep alert for so leaders should not be unaware imo and the Lord has promised faithful Saints need not fear….therefore if leaders are not pushing the idea and we are investing our time in goodly,godly pursuits and being financially  responsible (such as getting out of debt, buying useful products for likely emergencies, investing significant effort into being healthy and physically fit, and   other prudent choices…all good things for everyday life, then why should we be overly concerned about it?

Edited March 7, 2024 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Leaving aside the apocalyptic doomsayers I still think it's fascinating how few latter-day saints actually believe we're anywhere close to the end of the world.

Somewhere we stopped being a millennialist Church.  The idea that building Zion for the Lord's imminent second coming and the New Jerusalem doesn't seem to fit our current perspective much.

 

Where does this idea come from for you?

it’s my opinion that most members do agree that we are in the last days. 
 

Just most of us aren’t making that our predominant thought. (in my mind that would not be a healthy practice.)

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Where does this idea come from for you?

it’s my opinion that most members do agree that we are in the last days. 
 

Just most of us aren’t making that our predominant thought. (in my mind that would not be a healthy practice.)

For sure, it's a totally unhealthy mindset. You're kind of living in the future, and probably not paying attention to loved ones in the best way. They need a person that is living in the here and now. This moment, or every moment counts. Some people are nearly willing the second coming. I do understand doing that if you're dying, but not until.  

[manol]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

it’s my opinion that most members do agree that we are in the last days. 

Just most of us aren’t making that our predominant thought. (in my mind that would not be a healthy practice.)

 

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

For sure, it's a totally unhealthy mindset. You're kind of living in the future, and probably not paying attention to loved ones in the best way. They need a person that is living in the here and now. This moment, or every moment counts. Some people are nearly willing the second coming. I do understand doing that if you're dying, but not until.  

 

When Christ came the first time, the religious mindsets of the day held an expectation of something completely different from what actually happened.  The expectation was that the Messiah would deliver his people from oppression.  What actually happened could be framed in such terms after the fact, but virtually everyone was wrong in their expectations of what that would look like, and virtually nobody realized it was happening as it was happening.

I think the religious mindsets (LDS and otherwise) around the second coming of Christ are at least as mistaken as they were the first time around, if not moreso.  I think all of those expecting to see Christ condemn the world and vindicate their "we are special" paradigm will be disappointed.  I think the second coming of Christ will be something inner that we do rather than something external that we watch from the safety of our bunkers. 

Edited March 7, 2024 by manol

[teddyaware]

7 hours ago, manol said:

 

 

When Christ came the first time, the religious mindsets of the day held an expectation of something completely different from what actually happened.  The expectation was that the Messiah would deliver his people from oppression.  What actually happened could be framed in such terms after the fact, but virtually everyone was wrong in their expectations of what that would look like, and virtually nobody realized it was happening as it was happening.

I think the religious mindsets (LDS and otherwise) around the second coming of Christ are at least as mistaken as they were the first time around, if not moreso.  I think all of those expecting to see Christ condemn the world and vindicate their "we are special" paradigm will be disappointed.  I think the second coming of Christ will be something inner that we do rather than something external that we watch from the safety of our bunkers. 

Do you believe that the resurrected Jesus Christ actually appeared in very person to the Nephites who were gathered at the temple in the land Bountiful, and that all of the gathered actually touched the physical body of Christ after being personally invited by him to come forward and feel with their hands the wounds of his crucifixion in his hands and feet, and thrust their hands into his side? Or do you believe the account in 3 Nephi 11 was some sort of collective vision in which the attendees were so inspired by the Spirit of God that they only inwardly imagined seeing, hearing and touching the risen Lord?  Would you agree with me that it’s extremely difficult to imagine that the 3 Nephi 11 account didn’t actually happen as a real historical event in the external world? And if the 3 Nephi 11 account did indeed happen in the external world as described, why do you imagine that the Second Coming of Christ would be any less real, tangible and actual?

12 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words the whole multitude fell to the earth; for they remembered that it had been prophesied among them that Christ should show himself unto them after his ascension into heaven.

13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:

14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

15 And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.

16 And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord, saying:

17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him. (3 Nephi 11)

 

Edited March 8, 2024 by teddyaware

[manol]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

Do you believe that the resurrected Jesus Christ actually appeared in very person to the Nephites who were gathered at the temple in the land Bountiful, and that all of the gathered actually touched the physical body of Christ after being personally invited by him to come forward and feel with their hands the wounds of his crucifixion in his hands and feet, and thrust their hands into his side? Or do you believe the account in 3 Nephi 11 was some sort of collective vision in which the attendees were so inspired by the Spirit of God that they only inwardly imagined seeing, hearing and touching the risen Lord?  Would you agree with me that it’s extremely difficult to imagine that the 3 Nephi 11 account didn’t actually happen as a real historical event in the external world? And if the 3 Nephi 11 account did indeed happen in the external world as described, why do you imagine that the Second Coming of Christ would be any less real, tangible and actual?

I believe the Book of Mormon contains many wonderful and valuable teachings, whatever its degree of historical accuracy may be. It can and does change people's lives.

I do not think we are called to be spectators to the Second Coming of Christ; I think we are to be participants. I think it will be more real and more tangible than anything else on this plane of existence, but I do not think it will unfold the way Christianity (including the LDS Church) has envisioned.

Spectators do not elevate/progress/rise from a lower kingdom to a higher one. Participants do.

[mfbukowski]

12 hours ago, manol said:

I believe the Book of Mormon contains many wonderful and valuable teachings, whatever its degree of historical accuracy may be. It can and does change people's lives.

I do not think we are called to be spectators to the Second Coming of Christ; I think we are to be participants. I think it will be more real and more tangible than anything else on this plane of existence, but I do not think it will unfold the way Christianity (including the LDS Church) has envisioned.

Spectators do not elevate/progress/rise from a lower kingdom to a higher one. Participants do.

Excellent stuff, thanks.

Also @OGHoosier

As an analogy we need to understand that Santa is a principle, a symbol, for a giving spirit.

BUT our anthropological symbols are useful in teaching all ages.  I speak to my "Heavenly Father" daily, because I have no doubt that Someone or Something is "out there" who knows me and responds.

It gives us MEANING in life, something built into us.

Kids play with ideas about "what they want to be when they grow up."

What is that?

A longing for meaning that even babies feel.  We must have PURPOSE.

It is built into us.

And so we have our paradigms about those who have/had the HIGHEST paradigms and follow them.

And so I believe our LDS paradigm, with tweaks for understanding what is crucially needed in "the world" and what is spiritual/symbolic, to reach the Human Ideal, help us toward that goal.

Three levels of perfection, defined?

Great idea! Yet also each level is based on the idea that each individual person will be in the "best place" they are capable of reaching?

Now THAT is a paradigm for all humanity!  That IS a paradigm of what Heaven should be.

Paradigms on metal plates?

Look to the paradigms and not the stories.  These are world class ideas about the meaning of life.

What do YOU want to be when you grow up?

Design your own picture, your own paradigm through that VOICE you find within.

Those experiences are called "testmonies".

 

Edited March 8, 2024 by mfbukowski

[webbles]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:17 AM, JLHPROF said:

Leaving aside the apocalyptic doomsayers I still think it's fascinating how few latter-day saints actually believe we're anywhere close to the end of the world.

We did have President Packer say in 2011 ( https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/counsel-to-youth?lang=eng ) :

Quote

Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.

 

[ZealouslyStriving]

7 minutes ago, webbles said:

We did have President Packer say in 2011 ( https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/counsel-to-youth?lang=eng ) :

 

The point being that we should live like we will be long upon the land, not that the "end" isn't near or that we shouldn't look for the signs of the Second Coming.

[mfbukowski]

18 hours ago, manol said:

I believe the Book of Mormon contains many wonderful and valuable teachings, whatever its degree of historical accuracy may be. It can and does change people's lives.

I do not think we are called to be spectators to the Second Coming of Christ; I think we are to be participants. I think it will be more real and more tangible than anything else on this plane of existence, but I do not think it will unfold the way Christianity (including the LDS Church) has envisioned.

Spectators do not elevate/progress/rise from a lower kingdom to a higher one. Participants do.

Quote from the movie- "Oppenheimer" to physicists:

"Yes you know the physics, but can you hear the music"?

That's it in a nutshell.

[Stargazer]

On 2/9/2024 at 7:37 PM, Tacenda said:

Recently watched a Tic Tok with a man saying to have cash on hand & a 3 month supply of food because soon the banks are shutting down all over the US or maybe the world too and some have already. I did wonder about needing cash after making my husband take all his cash from a hiding place in the house and depositing it back in the bank. He was hoarding it for a while there. Because of thinking the banks will shut down. Now I'm thinking he does need cash at home too, but how much not sure.

It is a good thing to have cash on hand, but fiat money isn't the only kind of "cash" that should be kept. Fiat money can become worthless overnight if circumstances go certain ways. This is because governments have been known to panic and print money like there is no tomorrow, resulting in runaway inflation so bad one would have to carry money in a wheelbarrow to buy bread. It's called hyperinflation, and it's happened before. For this reason, other commodities such as gold and silver coins can serve as hedges against this kind of thing. But in extreme circumstances, even precious metals could become worthless. For this reason, some preppers store essential commodities as trade items, including storable food, ammunition, and other things likely to go into serious shortage due to widespread disruptions because of breakdowns in transportation networks, etc.

 

[Stargazer]

On 2/9/2024 at 7:52 PM, webbles said:

In the US, as long as the FDIC and NCUA are still solvent, your money in the bank should be ok (up to $250,000 per person).

In a huge banking crisis affecting all or most banks, the government would have to print so much money to cover FDIC and NCUA obligations that it would cause extreme inflation, and possibly even hyperinflation. In that case FDIC and NCUA would fail. Because they are only capable of handling a certain number of large banks going insolvent. 

The key words are "still solvent."