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Have you seen the presiding authority correct doctrine or stop a long talk?


Rain

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42 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

It happened about a month ago while I was visiting an old ward of mine in So Cal. The speaker was going on too long and there was another slated to speak. The bishop got up and whispered into his ear. That's about the only time I can think of, however. There have been numerous times when I have wondered if the leadership would say something though they never have. I wonder sometimes what I would do if put into such a leadership position. Yuck.

My husband is on the high counsel. They have been told the HC needs to speak last and speak longer.  They were also told to tell their companion speakers to make sure to not speak so long so the HC gets that time to speak. My husband has never felt comfortable telling them that - and that's before they speak. So I'm sure he understands your feelings.

42 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I have never heard a leader correct something that is considered false doctrine though there have been multiple times when someone has said something that I privately contest and that perhaps should be addressed. Just last Sunday in Priesthood there were several comments that I thought needed much more nuance and clarification. The teacher each time simply followed up with an "Exactly. Couldn't agree more" or some such comment. It was discouraging for me to say the least. : ( 

Edited to add: I think participating on this board as either helped or hindered me. I am so much more familiar with important nuances that it seems other members have never even considered. Geesh.

 

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9 hours ago, Amulek said:

Yes to both.

And I even remember one occasion where our stake president made some statements during a ward conference which were doctrinally incorrect. When brought to his attention after the meeting, he proceeded to make the rounds to every class during the second hour to apologize / correct himself. He was a good guy, that one.

 

That is impressive.

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3 hours ago, Vanguard said:

I think participating on this board as either helped or hindered me. I am so much more familiar with important nuances that it seems other members have never even considered. Geesh.

Somethings jump out as much more important or groundbreaking than they do for my husband; this board and FAIR have really changed how I engage talks and both in positive or negative ways as you mention.  I don’t mind considering how a critic might respond to a talk or dissecting it on what is intended, but I would first like to get through a whole talk from the personal viewpoint of “this is something that I can probably use to help me focus on the Lord and others” like I used to.  It is at least more uplifting that way and I like that feeling.

PS:  I think I solved this problem for conference by playing the video at 1.5 times the usual speed…no time for anything but focusing on the words and absorbing them.  Helps retain the whole talk more, rather than just the last or most interesting points.

Edited by Calm
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11 hours ago, Rain said:

I wonder why the differences - why none for me and 8 times for you. Maybe if you have seen it done you are more comfortable doing it?

It's cultural. Bet it happens least in Utah?

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On 11/27/2023 at 5:44 PM, Rain said:

I would like to keep this light so I don't want to discuss why it happens etc.  Just curious if you have ever seen the presiding authority in Sacrament meeting correct doctrine or stop someone running overtime.

I've never seen doctrine corrected and I've heard some very incorrect doctrine taught. Nearly every week talks run over time and I've never seen someone put a stop to it.  Never in 55 years.

Have you seen it done? A lot? Did it happen more in some of your wards than others?

I don’t remember the doctrine correction, though it may have been done subtly enough by a bishop adding their own testimony at the end and putting a different emphasis.  I can imagine this happened, but if it did, I didn’t realize he was doing that…which would have bern the point.

The overtiming, just a couple of times and that was when there was a very tight schedule between meetings and only the last speaker.

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3 hours ago, bluebell said:

So now you must share you super powers with the rest of the membership and speak up in your classes to offer a "different perspective" :D 

Oh it's so difficult to be me! ;o I think there at least two reasons why so many times I don't speak up. In no order of importance - 1) I'm scared I may provoke a conflictual exchange in the group and/or 2) I don't think it's germane enough to the lesson and the purpose of the discussion. I do on occasion try to convey my own thoughts though I am particularly careful in how I word it. Sometimes it seems others have no problem saying exactly how they think about a given topic regardless of how their comments might impact others unnecessarily.

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10 hours ago, filovirus said:

We have a red light on the podium.

It needs to be something no one else is aware of so the bishop doesn’t worry about embarrassing them for it to be more consistently applied, imo.

Maybe hand out bracelets to every speaker with a time set for the recommended length plus a few extra minutes to be kind that gives increasingly stronger electrical shocks for every minute past that time.…with an override button for the bishop so he can turn it off if they are giving a talk that calls out for more time or can start early if false doctrine. ;) 

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3 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

As a former high councilman, I would not be comfortable telling my companion speaker "...to not speak so long...". Instead, I would probably when reaching out to a potential companion speaker simply say "I need you to speak for about 10? 15? mins" and leave it at that. 

I cringe when the speakers go on and on, like in F&T meetings. Cannot stand it when people take up others' time. So I can understand the High Council speaker to need enough time, especially to relay things of importance. I've seen this happen numerous times in all my years of Sacrament meetings. 

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4 hours ago, Thinking said:

After the meeting was over the GA instructed my companion about the proper procedure of announcing the song and prayer before his talk. I felt bad for my companion. He thought he was conducting correctly, but was corrected. I probably would have made the same mistake. Neither of us had ever been taught how to appropriately conduct a meeting.

As a bishop, I had a similar correction from a GA after I referred to the congregation as "you guys".  ("Hope you guys have a nice 》...which holiday? ...《)

I thought that was a little overly strict 

I had to stop one guy that started a political tirade, and 2 going overtime.

In fact the present bishop had to cut off an overtime speaker just last Sunday. 

Time for lunch, and another ward waiting for us to get out so they could come in!  Dunno which one of those was more important! ;)

 

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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11 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

Sometimes it seems others have no problem saying exactly how they think about a given topic regardless of how their comments might impact others unnecessarily.

While I think it is good to have strong convictions, it is empathy and caring for others that make them worthwhile to share, so not being concerned about impact seems to be missing the point of communication, imo.

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On 11/27/2023 at 4:44 PM, Rain said:

I would like to keep this light so I don't want to discuss why it happens etc.  Just curious if you have ever seen the presiding authority in Sacrament meeting correct doctrine or stop someone running overtime.

I've never seen doctrine corrected and I've heard some very incorrect doctrine taught. Nearly every week talks run over time and I've never seen someone put a stop to it.  Never in 55 years.

Have you seen it done? A lot? Did it happen more in some of your wards than others?

It happened to Elder LeGrand Richards in General Conference. 😄

 

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2 hours ago, Vanguard said:

As a former high councilman, I would not be comfortable telling my companion speaker "...to not speak so long...". Instead, I would probably when reaching out to a potential companion speaker simply say "I need you to speak for about 10? 15? mins" and leave it at that. 

I always ask how long they want me to speak, even if it's a request from the bishopric for a regular sacrament meeting talk.  And I did that especially one time when I was scheduled to be the companion speaker for a high councilman several years ago.  I was aware of the speaking assignment several months ahead of time because of my particular calling, and the high councilman called me the week prior to the talk to confirm that I would be speaking, and I asked him how long I should take.  He told me twelve minutes!  (And let me tell you that was a tough talk to edit down to twelve minutes given the topic, but I timed it out perfectly).

I think it's important for whoever schedules a person to speak to let them know how much time they should take, and the speaker should respect that.

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I cringe when the speakers go on and on, like in F&T meetings. Cannot stand it when people take up others' time. So I can understand the High Council speaker to need enough time, especially to relay things of importance. I've seen this happen numerous times in all my years of Sacrament meetings. 

Your comment reminded me of a "story" that was told by a high counselor speaker when I was on my mission (I wrote it down).  This is how it went:

"I knew two boys that were about 12 years old and were of different religions.  One boy was a Catholic and the other a Latter-day Saint.  These boys became curious about each other's religions, how they differed, and what kind of things they believed in and taught.  So, they decided to attend each other's meetings to see what they were like. 

"The first week they went to the Catholic boy's church.  The LDS boy was very curious about what was going on, and every time a candle was lit or something happened, the LDS boy would lean over to the Catholic boy and ask, 'What does that mean?', and the Catholic boy would explain it to him.

"The next week the two boys went to the LDS meeting and it just happened to be the high councilman week to speak in church.  Well, the meeting progressed and the high councilman got up to speak and took his watch off of his wrist and set it on the pulpit beside him so he could watch the time as councilmen do sometimes.  And the Catholic boy leaned over to the LDS boy and asked, 'What does that mean?'  And the LDS boy replied, 'ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.'"

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7 hours ago, CV75 said:

What would have happened if your companion sat down without announcing the closing song and prayer?

Good question. I can't remember if there was a printed program (40 years ago). I suppose that when the pianist started playing the hymn, people would have figured out which one it was. Also, the member who offered the prayer certainly knew they were praying.

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On 11/27/2023 at 7:44 PM, Rain said:

I would like to keep this light so I don't want to discuss why it happens etc.  Just curious if you have ever seen the presiding authority in Sacrament meeting correct doctrine or stop someone running overtime.

I've never seen doctrine corrected and I've heard some very incorrect doctrine taught. Nearly every week talks run over time and I've never seen someone put a stop to it.  Never in 55 years.

Have you seen it done? A lot? Did it happen more in some of your wards than others?

I have seen both.

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FYI:

Quote

Notice
Date: April 28, 2016
To: General Authorities and the following leaders in the United States and Canada: Area Seventies; Stake, Mission, and District Presidents; Bishops and Branch Presidents
From: Church Security Department (1-801-240-2661; toll free 1-844-537-7000)
Subject: Security Guidelines for Church Meetinghouses
The enclosed document, “Security Guidelines for Church Meetinghouses,” has been approved for distribution to units in the United States and Canada.

Quote

5. Responding to a Disruptive Person in a Church Meeting
If a person becomes disruptive during a Church meeting, be respectful, speak calmly and with self-control, and respect his or her personal space.

Whether the person causing the disturbance remains seated in the congregation, approaches the stand, or stands at the pulpit, approach the person and ask him or her to stop or to leave, or invite the person to meet with a priesthood leader in the foyer. Tell the person that his or her behavior or comments are inappropriate. If the person has been asked to leave but refuses, inform him or her that the police may be notified and he or she may be arrested for trespassing.  If the person refuses to leave and continues to cause a disturbance at the pulpit, turn off the microphone and dismiss the meeting. Do not attempt to physically restrain the person unless it is absolutely necessary. (Adapt these guidelines as needed for auxiliary meetings, classes, or other Church events or activities.)

If a serious or dangerous disruption is occurring on Church property, call the police. When the situation is under control, notify your priesthood leader and the Church Security Department.

Sometimes people will grab microphones in order to take advantage of a captive audience.   A lot of people and orgs will try to deny those people the microphone, but we will deny them the audience.  I think that's pretty cool.  Something a peaceful people would come up with. 

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