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Pres. Nelson "Back to Work"


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11 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Must you though? Especially if you think their views are wrong and cause real harm?

Your passion and commitment to nay-saying the Church ... I suppose that I don't respect the object of the passion and commitment, but, that you are able to hold such conviction has merit. At the same time, the ability to hold conviction in one's uncertainty has its place. For my part, because I believe in the Restored Gospel and that the Church is authentically authoritative with Christ's leadership, I both admire and respect Pres. Nelson's dedication to it and that such dedication is worthy of emulation.

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I'm almost 62, my mother showed signs of Alzheimer's at around 62. In the last few days I've felt like it could be me. :( Hopefully it's lack of sleep. I saw this photo on FB and lucky for Pres Nelson that he's doing so well up to almost 100! I'll be lucky to be fully there by age 75. Just wanted to share this photo, and sorry if I made it about me. It's just something I think about 24/7 and wishing I could live that long, so I can see my family and especially my grandchildren's lives progress. Here's the photo of Pres Nelson and Wendy in a picture in the background on his desk. It doesn't look professional but like a snapshot that Pres Nelson liked. Hope this link will bring it up.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=921764765977075&set=a.289721535848071&__cft__[0]=AZVp2N2rdi546ZChtCyj-Bs2s7LtikvTbmTaqeIi-q6012f3nRQWhLDfk3YZAimibjLT8IRmUdK0Ri9bFvReAjNNSwmjoR7k47Ul_nurILTL02hXlV9bktgk1yyGbLtl6od6GXyQqydS8nK-kdEb7xyiRZn1C-WEtbq3flSdLHvusdkLdkXLFE0miu09yqOXf0cUJWNdwc4d7_ax-JDnZpDG&__tn__=EH-y-R

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5 hours ago, smac97 said:

Regardless of whether one concurs with Pres. Nelson's religious beliefs, I think we must commend him for sincerely holding them.  I think only strongly-held convictions about the truthfulness of the Restored Gospel would be sufficient to motivate a man of his age to continue to "work" as he does.  I admire and am grateful for him, and I am glad his health has improved.

I whole heartedly agree with this. I'm glad to hear President Nelson is doing better and wish him a full recovery, for himself, his family and friends, and all of the faithful.

(on the other hand, a partial recovery would mean he would get to rest more, which might not be so bad at 99 years old :) )

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3 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Must you though? Especially if you think their views are wrong and cause real harm?

Is there any major religious leader you would commend for sincerely holding strong religious beliefs?

I'm just trying to determine if you think Mormonism specifically causes real harm or religion in general.

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49 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm almost 62, my mother showed signs of Alzheimer's at around 62. In the last few days I've felt like it could be me. :( Hopefully it's lack of sleep. 

Most likely the sleep, that can have a subtle or massive impact.  But also just in case check all your medications and supplements, including combinations.  Two of mine were fine on their own, but horrible together.  Thankfully I could substitute one of them easily with a harmless version.  There are also some that can be fine originally, but then develop into being a problem.  We can talk privately if you want…

Edited by Calm
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14 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Is there any major religious leader you would commend for sincerely holding strong religious beliefs?

I think sincerity in this context (in general not just religious leaders), in and of itself, is a low bar for praise. Praising someone, (Nelson this case) because he honestly believes what he is preaching to millions? Well I sure hope he believes. 
 

I do find some actions from religious leaders commendable. Pope Francis eschewing the papal apartments for example. 

14 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'm just trying to determine if you think Mormonism specifically causes real harm or religion in general.

I can speak personally about Mormonism* (I can never remember what the official replacement for this word is supposed to be). I can draw parallels to most other religions. 

The topic is too big to go into here, and for those that wish to respond, I apologize in advance, but it’s a debate I just don’t have time for at the moment. I will also say that not everything religion does is harm (if that’s not clear). There are some things that religions can do really well. 

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3 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

can speak personally about Mormonism* (I can never remember what the official replacement for this word is supposed to be)

“The restored gospel  of Jesus Christ”** supposedly, but that doesn’t really cover culture that has little to do with the gospel, except that people in the culture practice the faith, so I don’t think they actually have a replacement…can I count this as a solid criticism of the Church as it really frustrates me because it should be obvious that it doesn’t work in so many cases “Mormonism” is used?  Christ didn’t restore use of green jello or funeral potatoes, for example.

So using “the restored gospel of Jesus Christ” for the actual doctrine and its interpretations into policy and practices and teachings, that I can agree with.  Lifestyle when it is a result of those teachings as well, though it seems borderline.  Lifestyle that does not follow those teachings, but is a result of a close knit community needs another name, maybe like “Mormonism”.

Until they come up with a sensible replacement for the last usage, they are doomed to fail, imo.

However, for your post, “the restored gospel of Jesus Christ” would be accurate by their standards, not sure by yours. (Capitals would work better, imo, because then it is a name; otherwise it reads like the person is agreeing it is the restored gospel and not just that the Church claims this).

**

  • Quote

    The term “Mormonism” is inaccurate and should not be used. When describing the combination of doctrine, culture and lifestyle unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the term “the restored gospel of Jesus Christ” is accurate and preferred.

    https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/style-guide

Edited by Calm
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On 11/10/2023 at 2:32 PM, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Must you though? Especially if you think their views are wrong and cause real harm?

I agree.  I don't commend old Muslim Imams who continue to promote jihad for example just because their belief keeps them energized in their elderly years.

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On 11/10/2023 at 2:48 PM, Nofear said:

Your passion and commitment to nay-saying the Church ...

Oh boo hoo.  @SeekingUnderstandinghad a valid question. Just because Russell Nelson is really really old but still committed to the cause and organization that is the foundation of what he likely believes does not mean one needs to commend him.  

On 11/10/2023 at 2:48 PM, Nofear said:

 

I suppose that I don't respect the object of the passion and commitment, but, that you are able to hold such conviction has merit. At the same time, the ability to hold conviction in one's uncertainty has its place. For my part, because I believe in the Restored Gospel and that the Church is authentically authoritative with Christ's leadership, I both admire and respect Pres. Nelson's dedication to it and that such dedication is worthy of emulation.

Sure. And if you were a devoted muslim jihadist you would admire a old warrior jihadist as much.  That does not mean we should fine your behavior commendable not the old jihadist's behavior.

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22 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Is there any major religious leader you would commend for sincerely holding strong religious beliefs?

You did not ask me but I like your current Pope pretty well.  I am sure there are others that I could commend.

22 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'm just trying to determine if you think Mormonism specifically causes real harm or religion in general.

Most organizations are a  mixed bag so I guess one has to think about the degree of harm or not.  

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19 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Just because Russell Nelson is really really old but still committed to the cause and organization that is the foundation of what he likely believes does not mean one needs to commend him. 

Nor does being old and committed disqualify one from being commendable. I gave the reasons why I do find him commendable.

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5 hours ago, smac97 said:

Because a not-uncommon narrative about the Church is that its leaders are a bunch of secretly conniving Machiavelli clones who know that the Church of Jesus Christ is a scam, but they perpetuate it for ulterior and nefarious reasons (greed, power, whatever).

I think it is more likely that Pres. Nelson sincerely believes in the foundational doctrines of the Restored Gospel, and on that basis is willing to get "back to work" in this, his 99th year of life.

I think it is sincerely- and strongly-held convictions about the truthfulness of the Restored Gospel that motivate this man.  I am grateful for his example.

Thanks,

-Smac

And that means that people who disagree with him, “must” commend him? Because he’s not lying about his conviction?

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1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

And that means that people who disagree with him, “must” commend him? Because he’s not lying about his conviction?

No, commending is fully voluntary. But improved understanding between parties that disagree is often advanced when favorable attributes and commonalities are recognized. I think the gospel and analogous principles help people accomplish this. Tearing down and minimizing another's positive attributes are voluntary too. Doing so as a result of feelings over the disagreement in policy is conflating and unproductive.

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