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Church sued again over how it uses tithing contributions from members


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Posted

I've read the Complaint and my initial reaction is that, especially as it relates to the  Second Cause of Action, I am skeptical of the fraud claim being able to succeed. As a forensic accountant who has been involved in both criminal and civil cases, I know firsthand the difficulty in showing intent as an element of fraud. At first blush, I just don't know that the act of hoarding cash gets over the hurdle of proving fraud. The simple defense is just "Hey, we haven't spent it yet, but we will when we determine it's the right time. In the meantime no one is getting rich of this hoard personally, so what's the problem?" I defer to Spencer on an understanding of the law, but the First Amendment issues seem to be pretty tough to overcome, too. In short, setting aside my exmo glasses, I'm not sure this gets too far.

BTW,  Plaintiff Masen Christensen is about to get a call from his Stake Executive Secretary to come in and discuss his involvement in this case with his Stake President - "Mr. Christensen is an active member of the Church who made his most recent annual donation to [the Church] on November 11, 2022 and plans to continue making annual donations for the foreseeable future..."

Posted
3 minutes ago, ttribe said:

I've read the Complaint and my initial reaction is that, especially as it relates to the  Second Cause of Action, I am skeptical of the fraud claim being able to succeed. As a forensic accountant who has been involved in both criminal and civil cases, I know firsthand the difficulty in showing intent as an element of fraud. At first blush, I just don't know that the act of hoarding cash gets over the hurdle of proving fraud. The simple defense is just "Hey, we haven't spent it yet, but we will when we determine it's the right time. In the meantime no one is getting rich of this hoard personally, so what's the problem?"

There are a variety of problems with the legal theory in this lawsuit.  

3 minutes ago, ttribe said:

I defer to Spencer on an understanding of the law, but the First Amendment issues seem to be pretty tough to overcome, too. In short, setting aside my exmo glasses, I'm not sure this gets too far.

I suspect the Church's will make an "Ecclesiastical Abstention" / "Free Exercise" argument, but I hope that they address the defects in pleading relating to fraud (and to the fiduciary duty claim).

3 minutes ago, ttribe said:

BTW,  Plaintiff Masen Christensen is about to get a call from his Stake Executive Secretary to come in and discuss his involvement in this case with his Stake President - "Mr. Christensen is an active member of the Church who made his most recent annual donation to [the Church] on November 11, 2022 and plans to continue making annual donations for the foreseeable future..."

Yes, that is likely.

Thank you,

-Smac

Posted (edited)

CourtListener page https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67934488/chappell-v-corporation-of-the-president-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of/

Still very much in the early stages. Will be interesting to see the reply in the near future.

 

1 hour ago, ttribe said:

"Mr. Christensen is an active member of the Church who made his most recent annual donation to [the Church] on November 11, 2022 and plans to continue making annual donations for the foreseeable future..."

 

"Annual donation" is an odd phrase to use for someone that is an "active member".

Edited by JustAnAustralian
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Annual donation" is an odd phrase to use for someone that is an "active member".

My dad was very active and paid tithing that way.  He actually paid it every other year technically. He would pay at the end of one year and the beginning of the next. Never got complaints that I know.  

Edited by Calm
Posted
2 minutes ago, Calm said:

My dad was very active and paid tithing that way.  He actually paid it every other year technically. He would pay at the end of one year and the beginning of the next. Never got complaints that I know.  

We pay twice a year.

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Calm said:

My dad was very active and paid tithing that way.  He actually paid it every other year technically. He would pay at the end of one year and the beginning of the next. Never got complaints that I know.  

I don't mean paying tithing annually. I do this too to an extent.

I mean calling it an annual donation, rather than saying he was a tithe payer. I know multiple people who pay their tithing less frequently than their pay comes in. I don't know any of them who call it their monthly donation, or biannual donation, or annual donation. 

Edited by JustAnAustralian
Posted

Non-transparency and secrecy along with the SEC revelations are not a good look for a religious organization that requires donations from its members.   These types of lawsuits should not be a surprise.

Posted
21 minutes ago, smac97 said:

These are substantial overstatements/misstatements, and I think they may come back to bite the plaintiffs in the keister (if the case survives a motion to dismiss, which is iffy).

Even if they did state that they would be used for charitable purposes, the IRS appears to have that covered.

Quote

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exempt-purposes-internal-revenue-code-section-501c3

The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion; advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government; lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice and discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.

The church could sell all of its investments and build a giant solid gold version of the Christus statue and argue it was fulfilling the advancement of religion requirement.

Posted
27 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Non-transparency and secrecy along with the SEC revelations are not a good look for a religious organization that requires donations from its members. 

 Which is likely why these stupid lawsuits keep getting filed.  Not because they have merit, but because they cast the church in a poor light.

27 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

 These types of lawsuits should not be a surprise.

 I don't think anyone has suggested such a thing.  Denson.  Gaddy.  Huntsman.  Ho hum.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Lawfare is the new norm.

Litigation rates in the US have largely been falling over recent years. There are groups though that want to condemn and vilify people using the legal system to seek redress and they are doing a good job of it.

The US has a high litigation per capita rate but a huge number of those are contract disputes (mostly debt collection). We are a debt-ridden society would probably be an accurate appraisal.

Edited by The Nehor
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, smac97 said:
15 hours ago, ttribe said:

BTW,  Plaintiff Masen Christensen is about to get a call from his Stake Executive Secretary to come in and discuss his involvement in this case with his Stake President - "Mr. Christensen is an active member of the Church who made his most recent annual donation to [the Church] on November 11, 2022 and plans to continue making annual donations for the foreseeable future..."

Yes, that is likely.

But if it happens it is a really short sited thing to do.   Unless the member is talking to the press, members should be able to file court cases without having their membership challenged.   The church has a practice of waiting until  court proceedings are over before beginning church discipline.   I'd recommend that the Bishop decline to give this member anything but love and sunshine at least until the case has been finished.

 

ETA:  Yes I know that church discipline is supposed to be a blessing.  But especially in cases like this, it will be felt as anything but that.   And it is hard for anyone to see what value it would  have in any redemptive way, either.

Edited by rpn
Posted

Also seems like it attempts to ignore that there are multiple meanings of the word "charitable"

"has publicly, continually, and repeatedly declared in no uncertain terms that tithing funds are 'always used' for charitable purposes."

The lawsuit seems to be trying to claim that the church promises to use all the money to feed poor people, etc. but ignore that the church by definition is a "charitable purpose". The very operation of the church is for tax and legal purposes a "charitable purpose". Am I right about this? It seems to me that the church could spend zero money feeding the poor but still legitimately be spending all money for "charitable purposes". Money spend from the ward budget for our ward talent show is a spending on a "charitable purpose", isn't it, for legal and tax purposes?

Maybe the complaint is specifically about he humanitarian fund. Perhaps that would make a difference. But they don't refer to donations to that fund, rather to their tithing donations.  

Posted
20 hours ago, smac97 said:

Here:

A few thoughts:

1. Copy of Lawsuit: I have downloaded a copy of the Complaint, see here.  It is a proposed "class action" against the Church.  This suit, like Huntsman's, relies on the "whistleblower" claims against EPA, and the SEC investigation.  The suit names both the Church and Ensign Peak Advisors.  One of the plaintiffs, Masen Christensen, is described as "a resident of Utah" and, somewhat surprisingly, "an active member of the Church who made his most recent annual donation to COP on November 11, 2022 and plans to continue making annual donations for the foreseeable future with the understanding the equitable and injunctive relief sought in this litigation is realized."  The legal claims for relief presented are:

  • First Cause of Action: "Breach of Fiduciary Duty"
  • Second Cause of Action: "Fraud and Fraudulent Inducement"
  • Third Cause of Action: "Fraudulent Concealment"
  • Fourth Cause of Action: "Unjust Enrichment"

2. Church Statements Re: "Humanitarian Relief" and "Philanthropies":  The lawsuit includes screen caps of the Church's website for donations to its "Humanitarian Relief" fund, including that it states: "One hundred percent of every dollar is used to help those in need without regard to race, religion, or ethnic origin."  The complaint also references "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – Philanthropies ('Philanthropies')," which is "'the department of COP of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints responsible for facilitating philanthropic donations (not tithing or fast offerings) to COP and its affiliated charities,'" and statements from the Church's website that "'100 percent of all donations {to Philanthropies} go to help those in need. No administrative costs are deducted by Philanthropies or our affiliated charities.'" 

They then allege that "{d}espite these representations to donors, Plaintiffs understand based on public reports from third parties that COP deliberately hid that some, if not all, of these donations (including both tithes and donations made to a COP philanthropy) are permanently invested in accounts it never uses for any charitable work."

In other words, they are claiming that the Church is funneling some part of donations to its "Humanitarian Relief" and "Philanthropies" funds (which are the ones being characterized as "100%" efficient in terms of the money going to "help those in need") to Ensign Peak (where such monies are presumably invested, rather than being spent to "help those in need").  The plaintiffs present very little in terms of factual allegations on this point (see image below).  This does not bode well for a lawsuit based on fraud claims.

3. Variation on the "It's All Ultimately 'Tithing'" Argument: This looks like a variation on the "all the Church's money is infinitely fungible"-style arguments we have seen on this board.  I don't think this works.  I rather strongly suspect that the Church would, if necessary, be able to demonstrate that the "one hundred percent" characterization of donations to the Humanitarian Relief fund is accurate.  But obviously it's not going to be fully accurate as to other donations to the Church (such as "tithes"), but the Church has not made such a representation about those other types of donations.  

As noted above, the Complaint references, in addition to the "Humanitarian Relief" fund, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – Philanthropies ('Philanthropies')," which is "'the department of COP of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints responsible for facilitating philanthropic donations (not tithing or fast offerings) to COP and its affiliated charities,'" and that "'100 percent of all donations {to Philanthropies} go to help those in need. No administrative costs are deducted by Philanthropies or our affiliated charities.'"  Interestingly, the suit then claims:

It goes on to point to the Church's "100%" claims in the "Humanitarian Aid" and "Philanthropies" portions of the Church's website.  The allegations on this point are hammered home repeatedly, but then the other shoe never seems to drop.  The Complaint includes allegations that some portion of the donations to the Church's "Humanitarian Aid" and "Philanthropies" efforts "are shifted throughout various church organizations," including Ensign Peak, where such donations are "never used to fund any Church organizations or efforts."

In support of this claim, plaintiffs cite Lars Nielsen's "Whistleblower report at Exh. H.2" (link here), which is a flowchart which Mr. Nielsen attributes to EPA in 2013:

x2nIk3tKbG.webp

I will be interested to see if this is a sufficient basis to survive the "pleading with particularity" requirement (explained below).  It doesn't seem like it, for a few reasons.

First, it's just a graphical image, and a pretty vague and "high altitude" one.

Second, it's from 2013, and makes no reference to "donations" to the Church's "Humanitarian Relief" fund.  So this graphic doesn't really work as evidence to support a fraud claim regarding donations to this fund.

Third, there is a reference to "LDS Philanthropies," which may or may not be the precise equivalent of the "Philanthropies" fund referenced in the Complaint.  If there are differences between the two, then I don't think the plaintiffs can take the Church's currently-on-the-website statements about donations to the "Philanthropies" fund and retroactively apply it to the entity described in 2013 as "LDS Philanthropies."

Fourth, even if "LDS Philanthropies" and "Philanthropies" are the exact same entity, the graphic does not seem to support the central premise of the Complaint, which is that donations flow this way: Donor --> COP (the corporate Church) --> Ensign Peak (and not "to help those in need").  Instead, the graphic seems to indicate that, in 2013, some "donations" wen to "LDS Philanthropies," which then sends some funds to "COP" and some to "Deseret Trust Company."  Overall, though, the graphic doesn't do much as evidence to contradict the Church's "100%" statements re: donations to its Humanitarian Relief and Philanthropies funds.  Arrows pointing to bubbles are hard to quantify.

Fifth, there must be some temporal symmetry between the statements which purport to be fraudulent (here, the Church's currently-on-the-website "100%" statements about certain donations (to the Church's "Humanitarian Relief" and "Philanthropies" funds) and the evidence which purports to expose the fraud (the 2013 graphic above).  What the Church is saying now, in 2023, about "100%" of donations to specific efforts can't just be presumptively falsified by pointing to a graphic EPA generated ten years ago.  Was the Church making these "100%" statements in 2013?  If not, then the graphic would not seem to be competent evidence of a misrepresentation.  And here, the plaintiffs have made no effort at all to contextualize the 2013 evidence as relevant to the Church's current (2023) statements.

Sixth, I don't think the Complaint alleges that the plaintiffs made donations to either the "Humanitarian Relief" fund or the "Philanthropies" fund.  If they didn't make such donations, they cannot claim to have been fraudulently induced by the Church.  If they made no donations to these funds, they did not "rely" on statements from the Church, nor were they damaged by any statements by the Church.

The Complaint then pivots to, it seems, all donations to the Church:

The foregoing allegations are, I think, the crux of the lawsuit. 

The complaint also claims that the Church and EPA (?) "were under a continuous fiduciary duty to disclose to Plaintiffs and Class members the true character and nature of the disposition of all donated funds collected, including the critical material facts that a significant portion of donated monies are not used for any religious or charitable purpose, but rather are diverted to noncharitable investments."  I question this assertion.

The complaint also claims that the Church "has publicly, continually, and repeatedly declared in no uncertain terms that tithing funds are 'always used' for charitable purposes."  I question this assertion.  A lot, actually.

4. What the Complaint Gets Right: In contrast to the previous "fraud"-based lawsuits we have discussed (Gaddy, Huntsman), the complaint in this lawsuit is, overall, drafted quite well.  That's not much of a compliment, though, as the complaints in the previous lawsuits were really bad, some of the worst I have seen in twenty years of legal practice.  Here, the Complaint is well organized.  It is documented fairly well.

5. What the Complaint Gets Wrong (Generally): Despite being drafted well, the Complaint is not very substantive, and somewhat misleading.  There's not a lot of "there" there.  It doesn't plow any new "factual" ground, and what facts are alleged are thin and anemic.  Although it has some novel legal theories not previously addressed in the Gaddy or Huntsman lawsuits, the legal theories (discussed below) are pretty wobbly (and misleading), which is not good when the suit is based on fraud claims and is filed in federal court. 

6. What the Complaint (Maybe) Gets Wrong (Breach of Fiduciary Duty): As noted above, the first cause of action is "Breach of Fiduciary Duty."  This claim is based on a state statute: Utah Code Ann. § 13-22-23:

A "fiduciary duty" is a pretty big deal.  See, e.g., here:

Now look at how the Complaint frames the issue ("COP" is the Church) (emphases added) :

This is, I think, a pretty novel legal theory.  According to the plaintiffs, if I donate $5 to the American Red Cross, that organization now owes me a "fiduciary duty" which includes "the duty to fully disclose to {me} all (!) material facts and information in connection with its disposition of the donations."  And if the Red Cross does not voluntarily provide me with "all material facts and information," I can file a lawsuit against it and use the coercive power of the courts to A) compel disclosure of that information to me, B) punish the Red Cross for not voluntarily providing it to me, or C) both A and B.

I have not researched this point of law, but it doesn't quite ring true.  Again, a fiduciary duty is a big deal.  The claim that one arises every time a donor donates any donation to a charitable organization, and that the latter thereafter has the legal duty to "fully disclose" (!) to the donor "all (!) material facts and information in connection with its disposition of the donations" is . . . pretty iffy.

I think there can be circumstances where a fiduciary duty might arise as to a donor's restricted gift.  See, e.g., here:

However, this 2005 bar journal article seems to indicate that even donors of restricted gifts are not owed "fiduciary" duties:

I have not read the whole article, but the author (an associate professor of law at University of Tennessee College of Law) is repudiating the idea of donors having "standing to enforce a host of fiduciary duties, effectively making these donors into private attorneys general with all the supervisory and regulatory authority that inheres in that office."  She is saying that donors to charitable organizations do not have such standing, and cannot act as de facto "private attorneys general" to investigate charitable organizations.  That is an apt characterization, because in this case that is what the plaintiffs are trying to do.  They are saying that the Church owes them (and, for that matter, every other of the many millions of people who have made donations to it) a very significant "fiduciary duty," one that requires the Church to, as the plaintiffs put it, "fully disclose to them all material facts and information in connection with its disposition of the donations."

If this theory holds for the Church, it holds for all organizations that receive charitable donations, and for all donors to such organizations.  The likelihood of that being the current state of the law is, in my view, pretty low (I am, of course, open to correction).  The plaintiffs do not cite to any legal authority to support their theory (except the Utah statute, addressed below), which I think is a significant omission.  If such a proposition (that charitable orgs owe expansive "fiduciary duties" to all of their donors) is an established point of law, the attorneys would likely have cited to an authority for that proposition (particularly in this case, where they are obligated to plead with "particularity").  So the omission of any such reference is, to me, an indicator that no such reference exists.

Consequently, my off-the-cuff assessment of the Complaint is that it is presenting a new and untested legal theory.  That is, that charitable organizations should owe expansive fiduciary duties to their donors.  If that is what they are doing, then I'm pretty sure they are going to lose.  I don't think a federal judge would find that it has authority to craft what looks like a new "common law" principle, particularly in an area that is already regulated by state and federal statutes.  I think a federal judge would decline to recognize that such a fiduciary duty exists, and would also decline to create one (leaving such matters to, I think, state and/or federal legislatures, which is likely where they belong).

Getting back to the statute cited by plaintiffs (Utah Code Ann. § 13-22-23), it clearly creates a fiduciary status owed by particular persons ("{e}very person soliciting, collecting, or expending contributions for charitable purposes, and every officer, director, trustee, or employee of any person concerned with the solicitation, collection, or expenditure of those contributions"), but the statute is silent as to whom that duty is owed.  I could not find any case law interpreting this statute.  Like, ever.  However, I suspect that further research would indicate that the statute creates a fiduciary relationship between A) the persons referenced in the statute (basically, people "soliciting, collecting, or expending" donations to a charitable organization), and B) the charitable organization (not, as plaintiffs are suggesting, the donors to the charitable organization).  If this is the case (I haven't researched it), then the plaintiffs' "breach of fiduciary duty" claim is dead as a doornail.

 7. What the Complaint Gets Wrong (Fraud Claims):

The Complaint's fraud-based claims are, I think, in even worse shape than the "fiduciary duty" one above.

First, the suit "sounds in fraud."  That is, its central legal theory is that the Church has committed fraud (as opposed to, say, a breach of contract claim, a violation of some state or federal law, etc.).  Rule 9(b) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure requires that "{i}n alleging fraud or mistake, a party must state with particularity the circumstances constituting fraud or mistake."  I have previously commented on fraud claims against the Church and how they often fail to satisfy the above "state with particularity" requirement.  See, e.g., here (regarding McKenna Denson's lawsuit) :

The three plaintiffs are residents of Virginia (one of them) and Utah (the other two).  How these two states treat allegations of fraud varies a bit in phrasing, but otherwise their treatments seem substantively identical or very close.  See, e.g., here (Virginia) :

And here (Utah) :

Fraud claims are relatively unique in that the "pleading requirements" (how the legal claims are presented in the complaint) at the front end of the lawsuit are quite stringent, whereas most other legal claims can be vaguely asserted.  I have spent a lot of time and effort in my legal career in addressing fraud claims, usually defending against them.  Defeating such claims has been, for the most part, akin to shooting fish in a barrel, most often because the plaintiffs fail to satisfy the "particularity" requirements referenced above.

There is a good reason for this.  "Fraud" is a potent, yet quite vague, word.  And its popular definition is substantially different from its legal definition.  My understanding is that both federal and state courts have pretty much uniformly required stringent "pleading" requirements for fraud claims because the word just covers way too much ground.  "He done me wrong" grievances that rely on vague claims of dishonesty would, without these pleading requirements, clog up the dockets of courts up and down the country.  So the courts have limited the ability to bring or prosecute fraud claims by

  • (A) developing fairly specific multi-factor definitions of the term (Utah's definition is divided into nine parts, Virginia's into six, but they cover the same concepts);
  • (B) requiring a plaintiff to plead facts sufficient to make out a prima facie showing of every element of the definition (this is a lot more difficult thing to do than even many attorneys realize);
  • (C) requiring that each element of the definition be pleaded with "particularity" (“the who, what, when, where, and how: the first paragraph of any newspaper story”) (again, this is often quite difficult to do); and
  • (D) requiring that that each element of the definition be ultimately proven up by "clear and convincing" evidence (defined as " medium level burden of proof which must be met for certain convictions/judgments. This standard is a more rigorous to meet than preponderance of the evidence standard, but less rigorous standard to meet than proving evidence beyond a reasonable doubt," meaning "the evidence is highly and substantially more likely to be true than untrue. In other words, the fact finder must be convinced that the contention is highly probable").  

Items (A), (B) and (C) of the above list are required of the Plaintiff at the front of the lawsuit, in the text of the complaint.  In the present case, I don't think the complaint satisfies these requirements.  

Second, this lawsuit was filed in federal court.  In years past, the federal courts had a loosey-goosey pleading standard for complaints.  However, some years ago the U.S. Supreme Court adopted a new - and considerably more stringent - pleading standard based on two cases from 2007 and 2009.  Here is a summary from ChatGPT (emphasis added) :

I'm not sure how "significant" this impact has been, but discussions of it show just how common it is to see a federal complaint fail at the outset of the case.  See, e.g., here:

As you can see, more than 1/3 of federal lawsuits are dismissed at the outset.  Here, the lawsuit is filed in federal court (and thus has a higher "baseline" for pleading), and is also based on fraud, and so is even more susceptible to dismissal because of the high pleading standard required of such claims.  I don't think the new lawsuit against the Church meets this pleading requirement, which means I think there's a pretty solid chance it will end up being one of those 1/3 of suits that are dismissed at the beginning of, rather than during or at the end of, litigation.

Third, the factual allegations in the Complaint are poor.  This complaint is considerably better drafted than Huntsman's (that one was, in my view, an embarrassment to its authors), but I don't think it will work because, in addition to the insufficiently "particular" pleading in the text of the document, the facts they allege are pretty weak.  They equivocate all over the place.  The plaintiffs want to take the "100%" statements by the Church about donations to its "Humanitarian Aid" and "Philanthropies" funds and attach them (the statements) to what the Church has said generally about all donations (such as tithes).  This switcheroo shouldn't work at all in a legal context, and really doesn't work in a legal context centering on allegations of fraud.  

8. Preliminary Assessment: I think the lawsuit is not going to succeed.

As an aside, I can't help but express some distaste for this lawsuit.  The Church has created at least two of the most cost-efficient charitable mechanisms in the history of charitable giving (the "Humanitarian Relief" and "Philanthropies" funds).  The Church absorbs and pays for the administrative and other costs associated with these efforts, which is the only practical way the Church can legitimately claim that "100 percent of all donations go to help those in need," and that "{n}o administrative costs are deducted by Philanthropies or our affiliated charities."

I think a decent person would be happy to see an organization making such efforts.  Here, though, the plaintiffs are using what looks like legal chicanery to mischaracterize the Church and ask the government to punish based on the above efforts.

Thanks,

-Smac

I guess their (Plaintiff's) left hand didn't know what their right hand was doing at the time.

Posted
29 minutes ago, cujo22 said:

Also seems like it attempts to ignore that there are multiple meanings of the word "charitable"

"has publicly, continually, and repeatedly declared in no uncertain terms that tithing funds are 'always used' for charitable purposes."

The lawsuit seems to be trying to claim that the church promises to use all the money to feed poor people, etc. but ignore that the church by definition is a "charitable purpose". The very operation of the church is for tax and legal purposes a "charitable purpose". Am I right about this? It seems to me that the church could spend zero money feeding the poor but still legitimately be spending all money for "charitable purposes". Money spend from the ward budget for our ward talent show is a spending on a "charitable purpose", isn't it, for legal and tax purposes?

Maybe the complaint is specifically about he humanitarian fund. Perhaps that would make a difference. But they don't refer to donations to that fund, rather to their tithing donations.  

I think you're on to something. I wish I'd known early in my marriage that my tithing really wasn't going to any charity, but to the building of temples, churches and running the church. I might have dug in my heels a bit more when my husband said we don't need to donate to charities because we pay tithing. Plus, this makes me wonder and I'm still confused, if the reason the LDS are the most charitable religion, or think I read somewhere that it is, is because when they take these polls they believe their donations are charitable because that's how it looks when they claim it on taxes. 

Posted

When I donate $10 dollars in my tithing slip to the humanitarian box I honestly expect that $10 to be spent on humanitarian costs. But, I also expect the funds to be 100% fungible and I really don't care where the $10 "comes from". If there is a temporal delay because of investment and what not that doesn't bother me either. The Church receives $X in donations to the humanitarian fund. It spends more than $X to humanitarian causes every year. Consequently, every expectation on my part is met and exceeded.

Posted
15 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

"Annual donation" is an odd phrase to use for someone that is an "active member".

When I was a ward financial clerk and when I was a ward clerk, I saw a number of members who paid annually. Usually, they were people who owned their own businesses and for whom their actual annual income was not fully known until the end of the year. When I was still an active member, this really wasn't that uncommon.

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, rpn said:

Unless the member is talking to the press, members should be able to file court cases without having their membership challenged.

It's not a coincidence the AP had an article ready to publish within hours of the lawsuit's filing.

The strategy "I want free advertising to gripe about the church" almost always has the following path. 1) Prep a lawsuit, 2) Contact national media and give them the story, 3) Ask the reporter the best date for publishing,4) File the lawsuit. They followed this path again.

The member is directly opposed to the church and wants to make a national scene about it. That has historically been incompatible with being a church member.

Edited by helix
Posted
44 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wish I'd known early in my marriage that my tithing really wasn't going to any charity, but to the building of temples, churches and running the church.

Temples, churches, and running the church is also charity, by definition.

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