Does the Bible Prophesy About the Israel/Hamas War?

[Calm]

55 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is this.

I haven’t seen the sun go dark. I have seen a blood red moon a few times now.

Does a full eclipse count?  Temperature dropped a bit.

[CV75]

I like to remember this when it comes to signs so the times:

all things denote there is a God; yea, even the ^bearth, and ^call things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its ^dmotion, yea, and also all the ^eplanets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator. (from Alma 30).

Also D&C 88, where a sign is something that is fixed beforehand (this passage refers to the heavens, but I think any aspect of nature applies; see verse 90 and D&C 43: 25):

42 And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a ^alaw unto all things, by which they move in their ^btimes and their seasons;

43 And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets.

44 And they give ^alight to each other in their times and in their seasons, in their minutes, in their hours, in their days, in their weeks, in their months, in their years—all these are ^bone year with God, but not with man.

45 The earth ^arolls upon her wings, and the ^bsun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the ^cpower of God.

46 Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand?

47 Behold, all these are ^akingdoms, and any man who hath ^bseen any or the least of these hath ^cseen God ^dmoving in his majesty and power.

48 I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his ^aown was not comprehended.

49 The ^alight shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall ^bcomprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.

50 Then shall ye know that ye have ^aseen me, that I am, and that I am the true ^blight that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.

[The Nehor]

18 hours ago, CV75 said:

I like to remember this when it comes to signs so the times:

all things denote there is a God; yea, even the ^bearth, and ^call things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its ^dmotion, yea, and also all the ^eplanets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator. (from Alma 30).

Also D&C 88, where a sign is something that is fixed beforehand (this passage refers to the heavens, but I think any aspect of nature applies; see verse 90 and D&C 43: 25):

42 And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a ^alaw unto all things, by which they move in their ^btimes and their seasons;

43 And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets.

44 And they give ^alight to each other in their times and in their seasons, in their minutes, in their hours, in their days, in their weeks, in their months, in their years—all these are ^bone year with God, but not with man.

45 The earth ^arolls upon her wings, and the ^bsun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the ^cpower of God.

46 Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand?

47 Behold, all these are ^akingdoms, and any man who hath ^bseen any or the least of these hath ^cseen God ^dmoving in his majesty and power.

48 I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his ^aown was not comprehended.

49 The ^alight shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall ^bcomprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.

50 Then shall ye know that ye have ^aseen me, that I am, and that I am the true ^blight that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.

The prophets were just being hyperbolic weirdos and the signs in the heavens are just mundane and predictable events that happen at a convenient moment?

Why have signs at all?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Why have signs at all?

To make the mundane sacred.

[CV75]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The prophets were just being hyperbolic weirdos and the signs in the heavens are just mundane and predictable events that happen at a convenient moment?

Why have signs at all?

I think you can answer the first question yourself  As to the second, the scripture above says that all things serve as signs to denote there is a God, which I do not take to be hyperbolic.

As to the prophesied signs of the Second Coming: Chapter 43: Signs of the Second Coming (churchofjesuschrist.org). These signs are subsets of "all things." -- "Jesus has told us that certain signs and events will warn us when the time of His Second Coming is near." They aren't too specific (no one knows the day or the hour of His Coming), yet anyway, but the faithful will look for and see them, just as they do in "all things" that denote there is a God:

"And it shall come to pass that he that ^afeareth me shall be ^blooking forth for the great ^cday of the Lord to ^dcome, even for the ^esigns of the coming of the ^fSon of Man. 40 And they shall see signs and ^awonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath." (D&C 45: 39 ).

So, the prophesied signs can help us when we know and apply them to prepare to live through them with faith, and even live through them, period! Prophecy is a sign, and some prophecies concerning current and future events come with greater specificity than others.

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, CV75 said:

I think you can answer the first question yourself  As to the second, the scripture above says that all things serve as signs to denote there is a God, which I do not take to be hyperbolic.

As to the prophesied signs of the Second Coming: Chapter 43: Signs of the Second Coming (churchofjesuschrist.org). These signs are subsets of "all things." -- "Jesus has told us that certain signs and events will warn us when the time of His Second Coming is near." They aren't too specific (no one knows the day or the hour of His Coming), yet anyway, but the faithful will look for and see them, just as they do in "all things" that denote there is a God:

"And it shall come to pass that he that ^afeareth me shall be ^blooking forth for the great ^cday of the Lord to ^dcome, even for the ^esigns of the coming of the ^fSon of Man. 40 And they shall see signs and ^awonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath." (D&C 45: 39 ).

So, the prophesied signs can help us when we know and apply them to prepare to live through them with faith, and even live through them, period! Prophecy is a sign, and some prophecies concerning current and future events come with greater specificity than others.

But the faithful have almost always claimed to have seen those signs and thought it was imminent. If the Second Coming does occur of course most of the faithful will have seen the signs but that is not much evidence of anything. It is the boy who cried wolf story with a twist. If you cry wolf forever and a wolf eventually shows up then the boy crying wolf or possibly his great-great-great-grandchild who took up the ancestral wolf-crying hobby will eventually be right.

[provoman]

Rev 9:9 is about attack helicopter.

Rev 9:16-17 is about A10s and Tanks

[CV75]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

But the faithful have almost always claimed to have seen those signs and thought it was imminent. If the Second Coming does occur of course most of the faithful will have seen the signs but that is not much evidence of anything. It is the boy who cried wolf story with a twist. If you cry wolf forever and a wolf eventually shows up then the boy crying wolf or possibly his great-great-great-grandchild who took up the ancestral wolf-crying hobby will eventually be right.

The Lord will eventually judge who the faithful are, and ultimately as individuals no matter their group identity, and judge them right no matter what they claim, do, believe or reckon in terms of imminence of His coming. No one knows the day or the hour, and the signs of the times help us manage that by prompting the observant to develop all sorts of divine attributes. So do signs in general. My view is that the sign(s) of the Restoration described in scripture -- and the Book of Mormon is a great help in identifying nonfigurative and literal specifics -- renders every other prophesied event or kind of event that follows a sign of the times preceding the Lord’s Second Coming.

[InCognitus]

On 10/21/2023 at 2:44 PM, provoman said:

Rev 9:9 is about attack helicopter.

Rev 9:16-17 is about A10s and Tanks

And Rev 19:11 is about Jesus arriving on the scene in a Learjet, and those with him in a fleet of Learjets (Rev 19:14), while all the armies of the earth sit on their horses Rev 19:18-19.

[Buckeye]

On 10/17/2023 at 4:46 PM, CA Steve said:

People have been waiting 2000 years to say "See I told you we were in the last days!!!"

When asked if we’re in the last days, I often answer “yes, we’ve been in the last days for 2,000 years and will be for at least another 2,000 years.”  

[The Nehor]

47 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

When asked if we’re in the last days, I often answer “yes, we’ve been in the last days for 2,000 years and will be for at least another 2,000 years.”  

We are in the latter days but when do the last latter days start?

[JustAnAustralian]

19 hours ago, Buckeye said:

When asked if we’re in the last days, I often answer “yes, we’ve been in the last days for 2,000 years and will be for at least another 2,000 years.”  

Wasn't it Elder Packer that said something along the lines of don't expect the second coming any time soon?

[Navidad]

I don't know who this preacher is, neither do I know much about Dan McClellan. It does seem to me however that they are two similar peas of a different pod. . . . confident to the point of cocky about their interpretations and understandings of scripture. Uncertainty seems foreign to both of them. Dan seems a bit too sarcastic and intolerant. The preacher seems a bit too simplistic and reductionist. He is a throwback to the forties; while Dan is representative of a completely postmodern and secular approach to the Bible. Neither seems to be a friend of uncertainty and each seems to be guilty of the sin of certainty.  One says "this is what is happening today" and the other says "this will never happen"—Two peas of a different pod. I would need to hear more from each of them about the role of the Holy Spirit and prayer in Biblical interpretation in order not to reject both of their teachings

Edited October 24, 2023 by Navidad

[The Nehor]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:44 AM, Calm said:

To make the mundane sacred.

That can be noble but if the things are meant to be signposts for an event and occur whether or not the event is imminent it seems less like the divine elevating reality and more like a huckster running a scam.

[CA Steve]

On 10/21/2023 at 5:44 AM, Calm said:

To make the mundane sacred.

If the mundane can be taken and made sacred through biblical interpretation, it destroys the distinction between the two.

Edited October 24, 2023 by CA Steve

[jkwilliams]

It seems every time there’s any violence in the Middle East, someone says it’s a fulfillment of prophecy. They said this in 1991 and 2003 when the US invaded Iraq, for example. I suppose one of these days they’ll be correct. Or not. 

In case anyone is curious, my nephew is in a rapid-response team protecting villages in the West Bank. Not as dangerous as Gaza, but not exactly safe. 

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

It seems every time there’s any violence in the Middle East, someone says it’s a fulfillment of prophecy. They said this in 1991 and 2003 when the US invaded Iraq, for example. I suppose one of these days they’ll be correct. Or not. 

In case anyone is curious, my nephew is in a rapid-response team protecting villages in the West Bank. Not as dangerous as Gaza, but not exactly safe. 

Hope he is okay. There is fighting from settler attacks and anti-Israel protests (violent and non-violent) on top of IDF attacks but hopefully it won’t escalate.

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Hope he is okay. There is fighting from settler attacks and anti-Israel protests (violent and non-violent) on top of IDF attacks but hopefully it won’t escalate.

My impression from talking to my sister is that they are trying to keep the peace between settlers and Palestinians. Definitely there is a lot of potential for danger. 

[Damien the Leper]

I'm curious if any other non-Abrahamic religions have similar apocalyptic obsessions the way Western Christianity does. 

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, Damien the Leper said:

I'm curious if any other non-Abrahamic religions have similar apocalyptic obsessions the way Western Christianity does. 

I remember back in 2014 a neo-Asatru group predicted Ragnarok. For better or worse it didn’t happen. I am going with worse. Ragnarok still wins for the most metal end of the world.

Off the top of my head Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, and some forms of Buddhism have end of the world stories but you don’t really look forward to those. It is not a vindication scenario like the Christian Second Coming.

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, Damien the Leper said:

I'm curious if any other non-Abrahamic religions have similar apocalyptic obsessions the way Western Christianity does. 

I am not sure if there are obsessions, but some have cycles that are laid out what happens when they end.  
 

Some make detailed predictions such as this person (I have no clue where they sit on mainstream-fringe spectrum):

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/when-end-universe-per-hinduism-kishore-shintre

 

[ksfisher]

19 minutes ago, Damien the Leper said:

I'm curious if any other non-Abrahamic religions have similar apocalyptic obsessions the way Western Christianity does. 

The Fifth World in the context of creation myths describes the present world as interpreted by several indigenous groups in the USA and Mexico. The central theme of the myth holds that there were four other cycles of creation and destruction that preceded the Fifth World. The creation story is taken largely from the mythological, cosmological, and eschatological beliefs and traditions of earlier Mesoamerican cultures.^[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_World_(mythology)

[Nofear]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:15 PM, Navidad said:

I don't know who this preacher is, neither do I know much about Dan McClellan. It does seem to me however that they are two similar peas of a different pod. . . . confident to the point of cocky about their interpretations and understandings of scripture.

Well, here is a different kind of cocky. Not about scripture but about history. He is clearly very biased towards Israel (being Israeli himself).
 

 

[The Nehor]

12 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Well, here is a different kind of cocky. Not about scripture but about history. He is clearly very biased towards Israel (being Israeli himself).
 

 

He comes out swinging with Palestinians aren’t a people. I stopped listening at that point. It is a pointless point. Not having an independent history does not mean you can’t have a state. The United States didn’t have such a foundation. Most nations have a myth about a grand history that the people in it share but it is just that: a myth.

Also not a good look using the same argument Putin used for his cultural genocide.

If this is an average Israeli then Israel needs to be better.

[blackstrap]

i happened upon an article about the year 536 AD as the worst year in history. I wonder what today's end-timers would think if such a year were to happen now ?

the worst year in history 536 - Search (bing.com)

Edited November 7, 2023 by blackstrap