Does the Bible Prophesy About the Israel/Hamas War?

[Damien the Leper]

Daniel McClellan very nicely addresses this question.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Damien the Leper

[bluebell]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Is it Dan's belief that the bible contains no "end time" prophecies?  Or is he just saying that these specific prophecies are not correct?

[The Nehor]

No.

[CA Steve]

I think he is saying that the scriptures the preacher was quoting do not say what he thinks they say. He also was criticizing the preacher for portraying this as a fulfillment of prophecy we should be excited about, instead of the horrible crisis it is.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

I think he is saying that the scriptures the preacher was quoting do not say what he thinks they say. He also was criticizing the preacher for portraying this as a fulfillment of prophecy we should be excited about, instead of the horrible crisis it is.

Yeah, there is something disturbing about the End-Timer types getting all giddy excited every time people start dying in the Middle East.

[rpn]

I'm not going to assume it is end times until our prophet says something is meeting a prophecy in official situation.   We don't need anyone to tell us that there are wars and rumors of wars ---- that's been true in all of recorded mortal existence (and likely in unrecorded existence too.

[CA Steve]

25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, there is something disturbing about the End-Timer types getting all giddy excited every time people start dying in the Middle East.

People have been waiting 2000 years to say "See I told you we were in the last days!!!"

[Damien the Leper]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Is it Dan's belief that the bible contains no "end time" prophecies?  Or is he just saying that these specific prophecies are not correct?

Dan is speaking of the poorly understood verses that people are using to suggest that there is a prophecy dealing with Israel or Hamas. 

[Damien the Leper]

The talk of "signs of the times" bring on the sudden urges to barf or throat punch myself...and not in any particular order.

[The Nehor]

“It is a war. One of the signs is lots of wars and rumors of wars. War is being poured out on all nations.”

-Person living in a time period historians call “the Long Peace”

[Rain]

33 minutes ago, rpn said:

I'm not going to assume it is end times until our prophet says something is meeting a prophecy in official situation.   We don't need anyone to tell us that there are wars and rumors of wars ---- that's been true in all of recorded mortal existence (and likely in unrecorded existence too.

Yes, working with refugees it has amazed me how many wars there have been over the years. Most of them just aren't front page news.

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

“It is a war. One of the signs is lots of wars and rumors of wars. War is being poured out on all nations.”

-Person living in a time period historians call “the Long Peace”

That's an interesting quote.  Were they only talking about specific countries?

[Pyreaux]

Wars and rumors of wars.

[bluebell]

48 minutes ago, rpn said:

I'm not going to assume it is end times until our prophet says something is meeting a prophecy in official situation.   We don't need anyone to tell us that there are wars and rumors of wars ---- that's been true in all of recorded mortal existence (and likely in unrecorded existence too.

I wonder if the prophecy about wars and rumors of wars has more to do with there being more of a spread of information than there being more war than their used to be.  Because there was a time not that long ago when most of the world would never have heard of most of the wars happening.

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Damien the Leper said:

Daniel McClellan very nicely addresses this question.

 

 

The "latter/last days" in the Bible usually refer to the times in which the prophet/preacher were speaking. Of course, ancient prophecy can be extended into later times and serve as a template for the gospel message in any dispensation. The latter days in the New Testament can be read to mean any time between the Lord's First Coming and Second Coming. The specific prophecies concerning the Restoration in the Book of Mormon cover hundreds of years prior to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon (Columbus, Conquistadors, Pilgrims, etc. as we interpret them), and so it stands to reason it could extend hundreds of years after is coming forth... The D&C likewise. The "signs of the times" allow the saints of any time "to recognize God’s plan, be warned, and prepare" for the Second Coming, no matter when that might turn out to be Signs of the Times (churchofjesuschrist.org).

I think D&C 133 is very helpful in understanding 3 Nephi 21:1, which describes the commencement of the work to prepare for the Second Coming (including the portions of the Old Testament Jesus cites in subsequent chapters and cited by Nephi in the small plates).

[CV75]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I wonder if the prophecy about wars and rumors of wars has more to do with there being more of a spread of information than there being more war than their used to be.  Because there was a time not that long ago when most of the world would never have heard of most of the wars happening.

The context for the phrase, in my opinion, is that the gospel will be preached and the kingdom will roll forward despite the continuation of such conditions: Joseph Smith—Matthew 1 (churchofjesuschrist.org), notably verses 27 - 31 after these wars accompanied the failure to gather Israel the first time around (verse 23).

 

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Of course, ancient prophecy can be extended into later times and serve as a template for the gospel message in any dispensation.

Yes, but was this intended by the original author or is it a case of likening scriptures to ourselves?

[tagriffy]

40 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yes, but was this intended by the original author or is it a case of likening scriptures to ourselves?

It's a case of likening scriptures to ourselves.

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, tagriffy said:

It's a case of likening scriptures to ourselves.

I agree

[rodheadlee]

Does anyone care to comment on the Book of Joel? It specifies that it precedes the Second Coming. Also I don't know why they call it the end times? To me it's the beginning of a beautiful Thousand Years.

Edited October 18, 2023 by rodheadlee

[tagriffy]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Does anyone care to comment on the Book of Joel? It specifies that it precedes the Second Coming. Also I don't know why they call it the end times? To me it's the beginning of a beautiful Thousand Years.

Joel does not specify that it precedes the Second Coming. It talks about the "day of the Lord." It is later interpreters who connect it to the Second Coming.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Does anyone care to comment on the Book of Joel? It specifies that it precedes the Second Coming. Also I don't know why they call it the end times? To me it's the beginning of a beautiful Thousand Years.

Joel talks about the Day of the Lord.

So does Amos in Chapter 5:

“Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. 

As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?”

That doesn’t sound like something anyone should be pining for.

Joel also talks about swarms of locusts and an invading foreign army. That doesn’t sound like the current situation which was a border attack and is now, in essence, a siege which is going to become a humanitarian disaster within the next few days.

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, tagriffy said:

Joel does not specify that it precedes the Second Coming. It talks about the "day of the Lord." It is later interpreters who connect it to the Second Coming.

The notes above chapter 2 say it is.

[rodheadlee]

22 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Joel talks about the Day of the Lord.

So does Amos in Chapter 5:

“Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. 

As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?”

That doesn’t sound like something anyone should be pining for.

Joel also talks about swarms of locusts and an invading foreign army. That doesn’t sound like the current situation which was a border attack and is now, in essence, a siege which is going to become a humanitarian disaster within the next few days.

It has the potential to become.much more than a border.war. 

It's kind of strange we didn't have the whole world worried about a humanitarian disaster when Russia invaded Ukraine. 

What a mess.

 

[tagriffy]

8 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

The notes above chapter 2 say it is.

The notes are wrong.