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Israel under coordinated attack by Hamas.


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10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Hey, it's gotta start somewhere, why not where it's supposed to? ;)

 

I know some Protestants have an apocalyptic end-of-days view of what happens with Israel, thus their support. Do LDS? Is supporting Israel part of LDS theology? I ask if the support is beyond just supporting a state being attacked. For example, is supporting Israel theologically more important than supporting, say, Ukraine?

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24 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

The political  state of Israel?

I think so. Gentile nations established it for a " gathering  place for the Jews " , a homeland if you will. For a short primer :

 

The late 19th century saw the widespread consolidation of a Jewish nationalist movement known as Zionism, as part of which aliyah (Jewish return to the Land of Israel from the diaspora) increased. During World War I, the Sinai and Palestine campaign of the Allies led to the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire. Britain was granted control of the region by League of Nations mandate, in what became known as Mandatory Palestine. The British government publicly committed itself to the creation of a Jewish homeland. Arab nationalism opposed this design, asserting Arab rights over the former Ottoman territories and seeking to prevent Jewish migration. As a result, Arab–Jewish tensions grew in the succeeding decades of British administration.

In 1948, the Israeli Declaration of Independence sparked the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, which resulted in the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight and subsequently led to waves of Jewish emigration from other parts of the Middle East. Today, approximately 43 percent of the global Jewish population resides in Israel. In 1979, the Egypt–Israel peace treaty was signed, based on the Camp David Accords. In 1993, Israel signed the Oslo I Accord with the Palestine Liberation Organization, which was followed by the establishment of the Palestinian National Authority. In 1994, the Israel–Jordan peace treaty was signed. Despite efforts to finalize the peace agreement, the conflict continues to play a major role in Israeli and international political, social, and economic life.

Typically with political decisions , they made a mess of it. The current situation sends shivers though the " signs of the times " community. 

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2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I know some Protestants have an apocalyptic end-of-days view of what happens with Israel, thus their support. Do LDS? Is supporting Israel part of LDS theology? I ask if the support is beyond just supporting a state being attacked. For example, is supporting Israel theologically more important than supporting, say, Ukraine?

The idea I have heard taught, from the pulpit,  in my youth was it would the US and Israel against the rest of the world and Israel would be about to fall when Christ comes again to save it. I can’t remember where I heard it actually, my guess is seminary, but maybe my parents.  They had The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Exodus by Leon Uris and some other books I can’t remember telling the modern history of the State of Israel that I read in my early teens, only political stuff in the house, I did not know if my parents were Republicans or Democrats…and didn’t care.  I was extremely disappointed when I found out I wouldn’t be considered a Jew even though the father of the father of the father of my father was a German Jew who emigrated to England and whose son came to the US and eventually Salt Lake and became a Saint.

The Jews were making the desert blossom as the rose as the Mormons had Utah.  We were Israel as well and so shared a sense of brotherhood with them (very one sided, of course).  There was a sense of obligation to support the state of Israel as many saw it as a fulfillment of prophecy (as mentioned in the talk I linked to).  I don’t know the current state of beliefs as it has been eons since it was discussed while I was around at church.

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I know some Protestants have an apocalyptic end-of-days view of what happens with Israel, thus their support. Do LDS? Is supporting Israel part of LDS theology? I ask if the support is beyond just supporting a state being attacked. For example, is supporting Israel theologically more important than supporting, say, Ukraine?

Meh.

Kind of. 

I have not heard really of supporting Israel on theological grounds; but in a sense yes, only because the church members see themselves as part of the "children of Israel" and the process of the "gathering of Israel" which is now, under President Nelson, has been connected with missionary activites and growth of the CHURCH but not necessarily of "Christianity".

We see ourselves as somehow connected by with Judaism through having prophets, having a temple which reflects similar ceremonies shared to some extent with the ancient temple, and as a re-organization of Jesus' church, which was the NEW (Testament/ covenant) replacing the old covenant with Abraham and Moses, the New Testament and then as restored by Joseph Smith for the Latter Days.

Politically?  Politics are never discussed in church simply because they would be divisive in a ward.

Historically I think we have a reputation for being conservative, but that is changing now with demographic change and other factors 

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51 minutes ago, Calm said:

The idea I have heard taught, from the pulpit,  in my youth was it would the US and Israel against the rest of the world and Israel would be about to fall when Christ comes again to save it. I can’t remember where I heard it actually, my guess is seminary, but maybe my parents.  

Yes I think that is pretty standard semi-biblical stuff

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9 hours ago, Calm said:

The idea I have heard taught, from the pulpit,  in my youth was it would the US and Israel against the rest of the world and Israel would be about to fall when Christ comes again to save it. I can’t remember where I heard it actually, my guess is seminary...

The Jews were making the desert blossom as the rose as the Mormons had Utah.  We were Israel as well and so shared a sense of brotherhood with them (very one sided, of course).  There was a sense of obligation to support the state of Israel as many saw it as a fulfillment of prophecy (as mentioned in the talk I linked to).  I don’t know the current state of beliefs as it has been eons since it was discussed while I was around at church.

That was my perception as well back in the day, the "Stick of Judah" and the "Stick of Joseph" being interpreted as the Bible and the Book of Mormon, respectively.  I took it pretty seriously.  In college I became the first non-Jewish campus liason for AIPAC, or so they told me.  My mother lived in Israel for seven years and wanted to convert to Orthodox Judaism.  They wouldn't take her so she returned to the US and converted from Mormonism to Reform Judaism. 

Edited to add:  "AIPAC" = American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

Edited by manol
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21 minutes ago, manol said:

In college I became the first non-Jewish campus liason for AIPAC, or so they told me.

Please explain what the letters represent, don't recall of hearing of such an organization 

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3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I know some Protestants have an apocalyptic end-of-days view of what happens with Israel, thus their support. Do LDS? Is supporting Israel part of LDS theology? I ask if the support is beyond just supporting a state being attacked. For example, is supporting Israel theologically more important than supporting, say, Ukraine?

There is a commonly accepted end-times prophecy but I don’t see why it requires support for the state of Israel. If we take the battle of Armageddon as a real thing that is going to happen it is not good guys being attacked by bad guys. It is bad guys fighting bad guys with the Second Coming saving a fraction of the fighters. It is not a happy story.

I don’t see any scriptural merit for the idea that anyone is required to unequivocally support the political state of Israel. God is able to do his own work.

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8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Please explain what the letters represent, don't recall of hearing of such an organization 

Sorry about that!

American Israel Public Affairs Committee.  It's the pro-Israeli political action committee, or at least the biggest one. 

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"Some Protestants" is probably a good term to use. Far fewer than when I was young and dispensationalism and prophetic teachings were all the rage. My father was a leader in that movement so I knew most of its protagonists. Mainliners and Evangelical today are nowhere near those teachings as current Fundamentalists remain. Having said that, there is still a strong pro-Israel sentiment among many Protestants, just without all the Gog, Magog, Tubalsk, Ezekiel 38, and Armageddon (Valley of Megiddo) type references.

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11 hours ago, Calm said:

The idea I have heard taught, from the pulpit,  in my youth was it would the US and Israel against the rest of the world and Israel would be about to fall when Christ comes again to save .

This is what we were taught as a Protestant before joining the Church. Our pastor made a big thing out of the fact that the United States is not mentioned in the Prophecies of the Old Testament or the Book of Revelation and he would point out that's because we are the house of Israel. Along with other European and British Nations we are the Lost ten tribes. Israel today is the house of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi if my memory serves me correctly. It could be Simeon instead of Benjamin.

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30 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

This is what we were taught as a Protestant before joining the Church. Our pastor made a big thing out of the fact that the United States is not mentioned in the Prophecies of the Old Testament or the Book of Revelation and he would point out that's because we are the house of Israel. Along with other European and British Nations we are the Lost ten tribes. Israel today is the house of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi if my memory serves me correctly. It could be Simeon instead of Benjamin.

If you go to any End-Times forum one of the most repeated questions is what does the Bible say about the USA? It is inconceivable to many that the Bible would ignore their nation which has to be super important. That is one of the more creative interpretations I have seen to try to shoehorn the USA into the Bible.

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23 hours ago, Calm said:

This is an Israeli social media journalist.  He is showing pictures of those who have been kidnapped for hostages, including young children.

How can anyone think this is a good move?  
image.thumb.png.8e9161c1c375755c2a144a7cdda77e58.png

And it looks like Hezbollah is joining the attack in the North.

https://www.facebook.com/hnaftali

WARNING AS HE HAS DISTURBING CONTENT ON HIS PAGE

This is pure evil, and all you planned and implemented, they should pay dearly, and without mercy.

Edited by Bill “Papa” Lee
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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

If you go to any End-Times forum one of the most repeated questions is what does the Bible say about the USA? It is inconceivable to many that the Bible would ignore their nation which has to be super important. That is one of the more creative interpretations I have seen to try to shoehorn the USA into the Bible.

Well Dr Gene Scott backed it up with lots of facts. He had degrees in history and language. There is no way I could recite any of the facts now this was back in 1982 but it was instrumental to me joining the church and having a belief that the Book of Mormon was true. If memory serves me correctly the United States is the tribe of Manasseh and England is the tribe of Ephraim. It's no accident that we were instrumental in bringing the Jews back to Israel.

Edited by rodheadlee
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