LifeSTAR, Bishops, Porn and Satan

[Meadowchik]

1 hour ago, Sara H said:

I concur. What I have never truly understood, even when I was entirely dedicated to following the brethren without question, is why we give Satan so much power through our perception of how our gospel is supposed to be lived. The more I learn about Satan's power and read what our leaders have written about it, the more I am beginning to get the impression that Satan's power and authority are truly a priesthood calling that he has taken on at the request of heavenly father. This feeling grows stronger the more I study and read what our leaders have written about it. It is remarkable how much mental space we LDS people give him to occupy in our thoughts. 

Not hormones or the normal maturation of a young man's sexuality are to blame in our church if a young man engages in sexually inappropriate behavior, like as looking at the cover of a nudist magazine, for example. In our church, if a young woman curses, we think that Satan enticed her to curse, and the only possible explanation for her cursing is that she gave in to Satan's seduction and cursed as a result. But the way that we have put up the dichotomy "it's either Satan or Jesus" as a way of coping with the challenges that we face in our day-to-day lives collapses when we merely take into consideration someone who struggles with autism and anger issues. If you have ever spent any amount of time in the company of an autistic person who curses and becomes angry as a result of frustration while attempting to articulate their views, you would quickly come to the realization that the dichotomy of Satan vs Jesus is flawed. Unless one is willing to declare that a person with autism is being influenced by Satan more than a person who does not have autism, this explanation does not make sense. 

It is possible to create irreparable damage to one's mind by allowing no gray area for simply being human in the context of the Satan vs Jesus binary. When I've talked to a lot of LDS youth, I've found that a lot of them have no idea how to get out of their own heads long enough to be able to take a break from trying to determine whether Satan is the predominant God that is influencing their acts on that particular day. It causes an arduous conflict in one's head that never seems to finish because one can't manage to drive Satan out of one's mind. 

 

 

 

 

This is a beautiful explanation for why I love the discourse in 2 Nephi 2 going over the opposition of all things. It is Satan who describes godliness as knowing good from evil. But a few verses later Lehi defines redemption as knowing good *from* evil. 

I think the emphasis on the need for opposition operates more in that Satan-centered perspective that you're talking about. But "good *from* evil" is to me an important difference. It allows for focusing more on good because that's the end goal. Find the good. If you can only identity evil, for example, where's your redemption?

[MustardSeed]

I cringe when people refer to Satan as a cause of their behavior.  
“ I was trying to go to the temple but oooo Satan was working so hard on me.” 
 

well, I guess we can’t solve that problem because we can’t stop Satan. So we might as will not self reflect. :/ 
 

(there must’ve been a general conference talk about Satan’s efforts to thwart our temple attendance because I hear this commentary often enough) 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

This is a beautiful explanation for why I love the discourse in 2 Nephi 2 going over the opposition of all things. It is Satan who describes godliness as knowing good from evil. But a few verses later Lehi defines redemption as knowing good *from* evil. 

I think the emphasis on the need for opposition operates more in that Satan-centered perspective that you're talking about. But "good *from* evil" is to me an important difference. It allows for focusing more on good because that's the end goal. Find the good. If you can only identity evil, for example, where's your redemption?

It later talks of the necessity of opposition in order to know and experience the good because of the evil.  Without evil (which I don’t necessarily interpret as something derived from Satan’s influence, but can be any hardship), we can’t know the good.  So when it says “know good from evil”, perhaps it could also be talking about how evil/hardship can be for our good and ultimate benefit.  Where good literally sprouts and is known from/because of evil.  That perspective can help us more healthily face hardship and endure trials, learning and growing along the way.

That is not to say that all hardship should be valued or even diminished, but having faith and finding meaning on a greater level can often help maintain a more healthy mental health through otherwise devastating hardship - in a Corrie ten Boom sort of way.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:43 AM, Sara H said:

To reiterate, not everybody on earth acknowledges that our doctrine and practices are the word of God. I would say that almost all LDS boys and girls have been taught that viewing porn is a sin, but there are billions of young people in the world who have never been taught that viewing porn is a sin. If a young LDS boy or girl views pornographic…

I agree that not everyone shares in our belief. But Phonographic material leaves in its wake, broken homes and broken people. Also, I cannot imagine a single person in a marriage, most certainly women who find their husbands engaging in pornography, are not broken inside. Finding out that their husbands (for the lion share of this), seeking pleasure on a computer screen, or on TV, when they should be finding such pleasure in the “Marriage Bed”. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:33 AM, Sara H said:

If a person has never been taught that watching porn is a sin, are they sinning while watching porn?

 

Yes, if not married, they are viewing things that they believe that future wife wants. Thus they seek to turn their wives into a what they saw on (whichever forum). When they can’t, it leads to divorce. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:32 AM, Meadowchik said:

Not silly at all. Any excess that interferes with functioning in life or with healthy relationships can be bad for people and families. 

Of course golf can be damaging to a marriage. Do you think it is good for a spouse to neglect their family every weekend, and to abuse the budget by overspending?

Long-term, such behaviour can result in neglected children/spouse and loss of financial security. 

Compare that to someone who uses porn legally and for a few minutes several times a week within the family budget. And without neglecting family.

The former example is obviously harmful and the latter might not be harmful at all and even if it is, by order of magnitudes much less harmful.

I was not imply to that anyone who spends more time away from home, was somehow good. But comparing these other things to porn, implies somehow all are equal. Porn is a sin with few if any equals. 

[The Nehor]

59 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

But Phonographic material leaves in its wake, broken homes and broken people.

I agree. Glad we got rid of the hell-spawned things.

 

55 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Yes, if not married, they are viewing things that they believe that future wife wants. Thus they seek to turn their wives into a what they saw on (whichever forum). When they can’t, it leads to divorce. 

That is not how porn works nor how most people who view it deal with it. That is a worst-case naive greedy idiot porn viewer approach. I happens but it is rare.

Also, why just wives and not husbands?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I agree. Glad we got rid of the hell-spawned things.

 

That is not how porn works nor how most people who view it deal with it. That is a worst-case naive greedy idiot porn viewer approach. I happens but it is rare.

Also, why just wives and not husbands?

I was speaking of, and suggesting that “Wives” endure the “lion share of heartbreak”, when their husbands were caught viewing this in secret, or even openly. It is true that there are also wives (women) who view porn, but compared to husbands or boyfriends, women pale in comparison. Either way, be it women or men, pornography scares, and grieves our very souls, that part of us that was given to us by God our Father, over time. When I was a Police Officer, I encountered so many married men in houses of ill repute. Some who would lament (or man-splianing), as to why they come here, just to do what their wives won’t do. Of course, we would arrest both men and woman. The men almost always said “I have never done anything like this before”. Sometimes, while trying to be understanding, and having a little time (waiting for the raid to end) I would speak, all the truth I could, about all that I had seen. I would ask them to think back, then I would tell them “it began first with pornography, then to strip clubs which were legal, and in the end it led you to the illegal; right? Nine of of ten times the replies were; yes. 
 

Every world monotheistic religion on earth, teaches laws and commandments, of the dangers and hazards of viewing such materials, even if was reminding them of the story of David. Most, before such material ever came into being. Commandments, especially now of the dangers were only a click away, or changing a channel away. I once taught a Sunday School class, where I spoke of the Holy Marriage, using both the assigned Scriptures, and quotes from General Authorities. Then while my wife was sitting there, I expanded a policy between the two of us, I told the class, “that every computer, every device, at home or in the office, my wife has my every password, to every site”. This still applies today, my wife, whenever she wants, can get my iPad, find every location I visit, and read anything I post, she might even read this one. After all just this last Friday, we meet 48 years ago, there is no her and myself, there is only “us”. The most shocking thing during that lesson, a 25+ year old wife, and mother, stood up visible angry, mumbling some very harsh words, and stormed out of the Chapel (where we were holding Sunday School at the time). She left before I finished, that this was not doctrine, but what we do in our home. From that point on, she would pass me in the halls, and turn sideways to avoid even a handshake. Even worse, that Brother and Sister ended up divorced about a year later, and I don’t know why. What I do know from practical experience, be it work, or callings in the Church. Secrets in a marriages are poison, especially secrets about anything to do with things of a sexual nature. Some may view pornography as harmless, or something that might improve their love life in marriage, but that is just a lie, 

I am sorry for being too long winded, or rather long-sentenced response. But I have seen in my duties on the job, the fallout, and carnage that follows from the first look if the devastation of both men and women. Especially women, and the horrors that led them to becoming involved in pornography, and prostitution, horrors that usually began in their home. That place when any child should be safe from the horrors of the world.

 

As always forgive my copious mistakes, my eyes grow dimmer every day. Anyway, enough on this topic. God bless you all.