More blessed

[Rain]

3 Nephi 12:2 says: 

"more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me,"

How is someone "more" blessed for believing  on the words of someone that has seen and believed Jesus? What does that look like when you lay the blessings side by side?

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

3 Nephi 12:2 says: 

"more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me,"

How is someone "more" blessed for believing  on the words of someone that has seen and believed Jesus? What does that look like when you lay the blessings side by side?

I think of it as the difference between the physical blessings that come from walking around the block regularly and those that come from hiking up a mountain regularly.  You get physical blessings from doing both, but since one requires more struggle and is harder, it provides more blessings to our muscles, hearts, and lungs (when done appropriately of course).

I think that believing because you have seen a miracle provides many blessings, but it makes sense to me that believing because you are exercising your faith--because it is more of a struggle and "harder" to accomplish--would provide even more.

Blessings that might come in the shape of increased ability to trust in other things not known or seen, stronger reliance on God when it was difficult to see a way forward, a more personal relationship with God brought on by the exercise of greater faith, or a stronger ability to recognize the spirit when it communicates with us.

[marineland]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

3 Nephi 12:2 says: 

"more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me,"

How is someone "more" blessed for believing  on the words of someone that has seen and believed Jesus? What does that look like when you lay the blessings side by side?

There is a comparison between "blessed" and "more blessed" in 3 Nephi 12.

Jesus invited the Nephites to feel the nail prints in his hands and feet so that they would
believe (3 Nephi 11:14–15). The next chapter records Jesus as saying "therefore blessed 
are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know 
that I am".

While I don't consider it a blessing for believing in Jesus after seeing him and touching him, 
in this context "more blessed" means more of a blessing is pronounced because it is based on
faith, not on sight and touch.

[Buckeye]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

3 Nephi 12:2 says: 

"more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me,"

How is someone "more" blessed for believing  on the words of someone that has seen and believed Jesus? What does that look like when you lay the blessings side by side?

I view blessings as essentially relationships and bonds with loved ones.

The primary blessing from believing in Christ is a relationship with Him. That blessing is available equally to those who knew Him in mortality and to those who didn’t but believe on the words of those who did. 

The additional blessing spoken of in this scripture is a relationship between the testifier and the those who believe on the testimony. As an example, think of the relationship that forms between a convert and the missionaries who taught her. That blessing is secondary to the relationship with Christ, but still of great worth. 
 

I believe this principle is why our wise parents in heaven do not give all people all spiritual gifts. If the purpose of mortality were simply to build relationships with them, then it would be most efficient for all to have all gifts. But since the purpose is greater - for the children to also build bonds between each other - limiting the gifts facilitates a reliance on, and love for, one another that otherwise would not exist.
 

Of course, the adversary makes use of this situation to attempt to spur jealousy, selfishness, and other means of division. Therefore, when confronted with the reality that others have gifts we do not (yet) have, we should choose to react with gratitude for the gift given to another, joy in that gift with them, and build up the gifts we have been given to bless others. 

[Rain]

29 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

I view blessings as essentially relationships and bonds with loved ones.

The primary blessing from believing in Christ is a relationship with Him. That blessing is available equally to those who knew Him in mortality and to those who didn’t but believe on the words of those who did. 

The additional blessing spoken of in this scripture is a relationship between the testifier and the those who believe on the testimony. As an example, think of the relationship that forms between a convert and the missionaries who taught her. That blessing is secondary to the relationship with Christ, but still of great worth. 
 

I believe this principle is why our wise parents in heaven do not give all people all spiritual gifts. If the purpose of mortality were simply to build relationships with them, then it would be most efficient for all to have all gifts. But since the purpose is greater - for the children to also build bonds between each other - limiting the gifts facilitates a reliance on, and love for, one another that otherwise would not exist.
 

Of course, the adversary makes use of this situation to attempt to spur jealousy, selfishness, and other means of division. Therefore, when confronted with the reality that others have gifts we do not (yet) have, we should choose to react with gratitude for the gift given to another, joy in that gift with them, and build up the gifts we have been given to bless others. 

Thank you.  This really makes sense to me.

[LoudmouthMormon]

7 hours ago, Rain said:

How is someone "more" blessed for believing  on the words of someone that has seen and believed Jesus? What does that look like when you lay the blessings side by side?

I don't think it's comparing the amount of blessings between two people.  I think it's the difference in the life of someone who might be just standing there with a blank look on their face, but instead is standing there believing in Christ because someone testified.

[CV75]

10 hours ago, Rain said:

3 Nephi 12:2 says: 

"more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me,"

How is someone "more" blessed for believing  on the words of someone that has seen and believed Jesus? What does that look like when you lay the blessings side by side?

John 17 speaks of three levels of oneness, each one adding upon and thus a more blessed state than the previous: the Father and Son, the Son and His first witnesses, the Son and those who come unto Him by those witnesses (who in turn serve ad witnesses to bring even more into the fold). "More" could in this way refer to the collective as well as the fruits of faith being more satisfying than the fruits of sight (individually), and the fruits of oneness (the individual enters a state of "collectivity" -- and I think I may have judt made up a word! ) being greater than either.

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, CV75 said:

John 17 speaks of three levels of oneness, each one adding upon and thus a more blessed state than the previous: the Father and Son, the Son and His first witnesses, the Son and those who come unto Him by those witnesses (who in turn serve ad witnesses to bring even more into the fold). "More" could in this way refer to the collective as well as the fruits of faith being more satisfying than the fruits of sight (individually), and the fruits of oneness (the individual enters a state of "collectivity" -- and I think I may have judt made up a word! ) being greater than either.

Are you saying "more believers"?

[CV75]

11 hours ago, Rain said:

Are you saying "more believers"?

In a way, since the more believers, the more we have in the oneness and the more blessed we all are. 

[CV75]

@Rain I've been travelling, but to follow up, I was thinking later in the day that people who come in after the first witnesses (who came in earlier) enjoy the added blessing of a larger fold to join. But to whom much is given, much is required, so we all share the same joy with the Lord in the end.

 

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, CV75 said:

@Rain I've been travelling, but to follow up, I was thinking later in the day that people who come in after the first witnesses (who came in earlier) enjoy the added blessing of a larger fold to join. But to whom much is given, much is required, so we all share the same joy with the Lord in the end.

 

The much is given thing is sort of what I was thinking with this.  It didn't make sense that someone would be less blessed just because they were born when and where they could actually meet Jesus. While I don't really think God works on fairness, I do think that somehow it works out (same joy) so it seemed like this more thing was an overall thing, but should probably be in a "these specific ideas" thing. Not sure that makes sense.

[CV75]

5 minutes ago, Rain said:

The much is given thing is sort of what I was thinking with this.  It didn't make sense that someone would be less blessed just because they were born when and where they could actually meet Jesus. While I don't really think God works on fairness, I do think that somehow it works out (same joy) so it seemed like this more thing was an overall thing, but should probably be in a "these specific ideas" thing. Not sure that makes sense.

I almost referred to the parable of the laborers, each getting a penny. I think the 3 Nephi verse has to do with the growth of the kingdom in this world and what is expected of people as they convert. The first witnesses pay their dues (requirements) up front in getting to the point of receiving the gift of seeing the Lord. At some point the converted (who are given the gift of a witness as a result of hearing the witnesses, are required to) bear witness to others. Ciao, still travelling!

 

[manol]

On 9/11/2023 at 9:13 AM, Rain said:

3 Nephi 12:2 says: 

"more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me,"

How is someone "more" blessed for believing  on the words of someone that has seen and believed Jesus? What does that look like when you lay the blessings side by side?

In my opinion, this is not really about who gets to be “more blessed”; this is about the spiritual growth and progression inherent in choosing to align oneself to a higher belief system in the absence of compelling evidence. In this case, the compelling evidence was having actually seen Christ and knowing that he is (as described at the tail end of the preceding verse).  The greater spiritual growth and progression comes from making that choice while not having actually seen Christ. 

By way of analogy, if the Earth School is a gym where we go to develop our spiritual muscles, the opportunity to deliberately choose the Light in face of opposition, and/or in the absence of compelling evidence, is part of our exercise Plan.  And our "weight machine" labelled "belief in Christ" has a lot more weights on it than the "belief in Christ" machine those Nephites had.

But imo we are not "more blessed" than the Nephites in the sense of being the recipients of more favor from God.  We just have a heightened opportunity for progression from making the choice to believe in Christ in the absence of compelling evidence.  I'm sure they had no shortage of opportunities for progression. 

Edited September 20 by manol