Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

My New Ex/Former Pentacostal/Restoration Minister Friend Joins LDS Church/Faith


Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, Sara H said:

If I understand you right, as long as someone believes, they are a Christian, right? OK, let's try something out. Let's say that a 60-year-old man who has never believed in God had a vision in which God told him he needed to start a Christian church. The man starts speaking from a street corner the next day. Within six months, he had rented a building for his Chapel. Within a year, the IRS recognizes him as a church and gives him all the tax breaks that a church in the United States gets. He calls himself a prophet and shares his beliefs with as many people as he can. He tells people that the ten commandments are a good place to start if they want to become Christians, but that they are not complete. He also tells his followers that child sacrifice is still required today, just like it was for the Israelites. Exodus 22:29-30 is used by the preacher as proof that child sacrifice is a commandment. The new Christian leader is a good speaker who makes it easy for people to join his church. In just five years, he has gained more than 10,000 followers. During the secret baptism process that is required to join the Christian church, new members make a covenant to never talk about the child sacrifices they witness because most Christians wouldn't understand. 

Now that it's been 25 years, the Christian church is still going strong. Every year, more people join, and tithing payments keep bringing in money. The prophet is still telling people what the Bible says about God, and his followers are still telling people they are Christians. The only real difference between the prophet's church and mainstream Christianity is that once a month, a child is sacrificed in a ceremony that takes pplace in secret. 

This little story I made up isn't too far from a scenario that could be true. A man can make up a faith and get a lot of people to follow it at any time. Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Branch Davidian's, and Heaven's Gate all went too far with their religions.  

So, I'd like to ask you, Tacenda, in my story, the prophet knew for sure that he was a Christian, and God told him that along with the tten commandments he had to sacrifice children. He had a real church in a real building, and the IRS gave it tax-free status. His followers were completely committed to Christ, the church, and the prophet they followed. They felt in their bones that they were Christians. 

 

Tacenda, do you believe the members of this child sacrificing Christian  church are Christians? 

 

I do think when hearing "acting like a Christian or doing the Christian thing" it means that we are trying to be like Jesus or how He'd want us to be. I'm positive he'd disapprove of child sacrifice, but in the scriptures it does say that there is only one unforgivable sin and that is non belief in Christ if one has seen Him or knows it deep down. But yet still deny Him. So in a round about way I guess they could be Christian since they'd be forgiven, don't ask me how, because that is the lowest a person could do is sacrifice a child, and so on. 

Just my feelings, but you do bring up some good things, and I think your posts are well thought out. 

Link to comment
On 9/3/2023 at 11:54 AM, MiserereNobis said:

It definitely has an anti-Catholic bias. I suppose that’s not surprising since he was previously a Protestant. However, he does repeat some old inaccuracies about Catholic history.

Perhaps you can contact him to let him know of his errors regarding Catholicism.

Link to comment
21 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I do think when hearing "acting like a Christian or doing the Christian thing" it means that we are trying to be like Jesus or how He'd want us to be. I'm positive he'd disapprove of child sacrifice, but in the scriptures it does say that there is only one unforgivable sin and that is non belief in Christ if one has seen Him or knows it deep down. But yet still deny Him. So in a round about way I guess they could be Christian since they'd be forgiven, don't ask me how, because that is the lowest a person could do is sacrifice a child, and so on. 

Just my feelings, but you do bring up some good things, and I think your posts are well thought out. 

I don't think most Mormons realize how different our gospel is from the Christian faith. In all honesty, the gospels are nothing alike. I could show you hundreds of quotes from Prophets and Apostles of our church that show that our faith goes beyond Christianity. This is why I don't like the idea of LDS people thinking we're Christians. Let me show you the clearest difference between our gospel and the Christian gospel. Below is a picture of a single dot. That dot is the Christian God, and there are no other dots because there are no other Gods. According to Christianity, there is only one God. 

Screenshot_20230906_140925_Chrome.jpg.3a2305326849e0c86b4cda9c7ca1e17d.jpg

 

There are 100,000 dots in the picture below, but let's say there are an infinite amount of dots in this picture. So, when you really think about it, Islam is probably more like Christianity than the gospel we follow. The same could be said about the Jewish faith, because both belive in one God.

Screenshot_20230906_140943_Chrome.thumb.jpg.305b34a06715c7b49dc1963baf221fb9.jpg

Another way to look at it is this. If you add Protestants and Catholics together, there are 2.6 billion Christians, and almost all of them believe in one God. All 1.8 billion Muslims think that there is only one God. There are about 16 million Jews, and almost all of them think that there is only one God. Then there are people like us, who believe in more than one God. We don't know exactly how many Gods there are, but we think there are an endless number, and that number keeps growing as more of the gods' children die.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why LDS people want to be seen as Christians, because everyone wants to fit in, but the more we try to fit in, the more our core beliefs will be lost. If that's what the brethren want, then it's right for them to try to make our church look Christian. But if core beliefs are really important, then trying to fit into Christianity is the wrong way to spread church beliefs and teachings. What they should do is set us up to be seen as the fourth Abrahamic religion, different from the other three, and promote the fact that we believe in a Heavenly Mother and a pre mortal existence. Women make up 49.74% of the world's population, so talking about Heavenly mother instead of acting like she's a wallflower who doesn't have a voice would honor her, in my view, and change the world. But you can't act like Christians and do something like that at the same time. 

 

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, Sara H said:

I don't think most Mormons realize how different our gospel is from the Christian faith. In all honesty, the gospels are nothing alike. I could show you hundreds of quotes from Prophets and Apostles of our church that show that our faith goes beyond Christianity. This is why I don't like the idea of LDS people thinking we're Christians. Let me show you the clearest difference between our gospel and the Christian gospel. Below is a picture of a single dot. That dot is the Christian God, and there are no other dots because there are no other Gods. According to Christianity, there is only one God. 

Screenshot_20230906_140925_Chrome.jpg.3a2305326849e0c86b4cda9c7ca1e17d.jpg

 

There are 100,000 dots in the picture below, but let's say there are an infinite amount of dots in this picture. So, when you really think about it, Islam is probably more like Christianity than the gospel we follow. The same could be said about the Jewish faith, because both belive in one God.

Screenshot_20230906_140943_Chrome.thumb.jpg.305b34a06715c7b49dc1963baf221fb9.jpg

Another way to look at it is this. If you add Protestants and Catholics together, there are 2.6 billion Christians, and almost all of them believe in one God. All 1.8 billion Muslims think that there is only one God. There are about 16 million Jews, and almost all of them think that there is only one God. Then there are people like us, who believe in more than one God. We don't know exactly how many Gods there are, but we think there are an endless number, and that number keeps growing as more of the gods' children die.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why LDS people want to be seen as Christians, because everyone wants to fit in, but the more we try to fit in, the more our core beliefs will be lost. If that's what the brethren want, then it's right for them to try to make our church look Christian. But if core beliefs are really important, then trying to fit into Christianity is the wrong way to spread church beliefs and teachings. What they should do is set us up to be seen as the fourth Abrahamic religion, different from the other three, and promote the fact that we believe in a Heavenly Mother and a pre mortal existence. Women make up 49.74% of the world's population, so talking about Heavenly mother instead of acting like she's a wallflower who doesn't have a voice would honor her, in my view, and change the world. But you can't act like Christians and do something like that at the same time. 

 

Here I'm being an apologist, never thought I'd see that day! 

I believe the way the LDS believe is that there is only one God. He is supreme compared to the rest of us. But since the Bible or Jesus says we must become like God/Jesus, maybe that put in Joseph Smith's mind that we will be just like our earth father or mother and become like them. But not BE them. 

But I get where you're coming from, and I know that's why many religions don't accept LDS as being Christians, and how ironic that is because members believe you must be LDS to live with God, and not even that, you must be endowed in the temple to do so, unless you've sinned an unpardonable sin. 

And I can see why the LDS church wants to distance themselves publicly of this because the non LDS out there probably need to be fed the milk, until they are a member in order to see or understand for themselves.

Edit: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+3%3A21&version=ESV

21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

 

Edited by Tacenda
Link to comment
16 minutes ago, Sara H said:

don't think most Mormons realize how different our gospel is from the Christian faith.

We believe our faith is a restoration of the primitive Christian Church that Christ established in all the important factors, yes?

https://rsc.byu.edu/go-ye-all-world/same-organization-existed-primitive-church

Quote

In short, Joseph Smith was talking about the “prime-itive” or “first” church—the one the Savior organized in the first century A.D. As it turns out, in the early 1800s, just at the time the Lord spoke to Joseph Smith, there was considerable interest in America in the primitive Church. Aware of the spiritual barnacles that over the centuries had attached themselves to existing Christian traditions, many religious souls in and out of different denominations sought to reform their churches in the primitive mold. This quest for the primitive Church, not surprisingly, has been labeled by historians of early American religion as “Christian primitivism” or simply “primitivism.” Many of those who joined the Church in the early years of this dispensation were primitivists who found in the message of the Restoration precisely what they were looking for. [1]…

Yet the “and so forth” at the end of the article indicates he was being suggestive rather than exhaustive in his list. As will be seen, the terms used in Ephesians 4:11 and the sixth article of faith are generally best understood in terms of function rather than position. That Joseph was using the words here more allusively than exactingly is apparent from the fact that earlier in the same letter he wrote that the Book of Mormon “tells us” that “they had apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers and evangelists; the same order, the same priesthood, the same ordinances, gifts, powers, and blessing, as was enjoyed on the eastern continent.” [4] Technically speaking, of course, this is not true, for in the Book of Mormon, no ancient American servants of the Lord are designated “pastors” or “evangelists.” [5] The Prophet seems more concerned with affirming the nature of the organization in the primitive Church than with its nomenclature.

Quote

For a Latter-day Saint at the dawn of the twenty-first century to assume that the present Church organization and accompanying job descriptions are identical to that of the 1840s, let alone the first century A.D., is problematic. Yet by attending more to function than flowchart, we can discern an essential “sameness” between the primitive Church and the kingdom of God in latter days.

Quote

Yet as we have seen, to read Paul or Joseph Smith as focusing on formal office titles is misleading and problematic. Better to look at the “and so forth” as extending what the Prophet was really trying to affirm in this article of faith, that the latter-day Church embraces and implements every ministerial impulse and activity that was present in the primitive Church. Exactly who carries them out and what titles they bear is secondary.

A concluding comparison can be drawn from the Primary. Though the Church has changed the names, arrangement, and curricula of its Primary classes a number of times over the years, it is still the “same” Primary organization in the one way that really matters—function, in its abiding commitment to love and teach the children of the Church. Nomenclature, organizational flowchart, and specific practices will always be tailored to contemporary circumstances. Indeed that is the grand design of continuing revelation. Latter-day Saint interest in replicating the primitive Church, unlike some historic forms of Christian primitivism, never has been strait-jacketed into matching the precise configuration of things in the New Testament. A loving Lord is thus free to constantly adjust the Church’s outer garment so that it best serves its unchanging inner commitment to “bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

What is crucially the same about the Savior’s work in the latter days is its function. He continues to send forth authorized servants of various kinds (as apostles) who act under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost (as prophets) to shepherd His Saints (as pastors), to instruct them in the word of life (as teachers), and to spread the good news of His saving grace to all the world (as evangelists). These functions are the similarities that really count. Indeed, they are the essence of what makes this the “only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth” (D&C 1:30).

 

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

And I can see why the LDS church wants to distance themselves publicly of this…

Except we don’t.  Our temples are throughout the earth, yet one still needs a temple recommend to get into them except for the Open Houses, which make clear our differences.  And the temples are intended to be landmarks, easily seen from many positions, easily seen to be different from their surroundings (though hopefully not obtrusively so).

Our temples are our banners of peculiarity.

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Except we don’t.  Our temples are throughout the earth, yet one still needs a temple recommend to get into them except for the Open Houses, which make clear our differences.  And the temples are intended to be landmarks, easily seen from many positions, easily seen to be different from their surroundings (though hopefully not obtrusively so).

Our temples are our banners of peculiarity.

I meant being Gods one day. Like Pres Hinckley said in an interview, he doesn't know that we teach it...the couplet that was spoken by Lorenzo Snow. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-lorenzo-snow/chapter-5-the-grand-destiny-of-the-faithful?lang=eng

“As man now is, God once was: “As God now is, man may be.” Feeling that he had received “a sacred communication” that he should guard carefully, Lorenzo Snow did not teach the doctrine publicly until he knew that the Prophet Joseph Smith had taught it.

Link to comment
44 minutes ago, Sara H said:

I don't think most Mormons realize how different our gospel is from the Christian faith. In all honesty, the gospels are nothing alike. I could show you hundreds of quotes from Prophets and Apostles of our church that show that our faith goes beyond Christianity. This is why I don't like the idea of LDS people thinking we're Christians. Let me show you the clearest difference between our gospel and the Christian gospel. Below is a picture of a single dot. That dot is the Christian God, and there are no other dots because there are no other Gods. According to Christianity, there is only one God. 

Screenshot_20230906_140925_Chrome.jpg.3a2305326849e0c86b4cda9c7ca1e17d.jpg

 

There are 100,000 dots in the picture below, but let's say there are an infinite amount of dots in this picture. So, when you really think about it, Islam is probably more like Christianity than the gospel we follow. The same could be said about the Jewish faith, because both belive in one God.

Screenshot_20230906_140943_Chrome.thumb.jpg.305b34a06715c7b49dc1963baf221fb9.jpg

Another way to look at it is this. If you add Protestants and Catholics together, there are 2.6 billion Christians, and almost all of them believe in one God. All 1.8 billion Muslims think that there is only one God. There are about 16 million Jews, and almost all of them think that there is only one God. Then there are people like us, who believe in more than one God. We don't know exactly how many Gods there are, but we think there are an endless number, and that number keeps growing as more of the gods' children die.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why LDS people want to be seen as Christians, because everyone wants to fit in, but the more we try to fit in, the more our core beliefs will be lost. If that's what the brethren want, then it's right for them to try to make our church look Christian. But if core beliefs are really important, then trying to fit into Christianity is the wrong way to spread church beliefs and teachings. What they should do is set us up to be seen as the fourth Abrahamic religion, different from the other three, and promote the fact that we believe in a Heavenly Mother and a pre mortal existence. Women make up 49.74% of the world's population, so talking about Heavenly mother instead of acting like she's a wallflower who doesn't have a voice would honor her, in my view, and change the world. But you can't act like Christians and do something like that at the same time. 

 

Quoting you again, I neglected to respond or may have neglected to fully read the last part. I agree on the matter of keeping Mother in heaven in the dark or closet, my words. 

We should boldly proclaim Her and speak of Her often. Women seem to get the shaft in churches and scriptures sometimes. 

I guess I'm not too knowledgeable about the 4th Abrahamic religion. But that's why I'm here, to learn. 

Edited by Tacenda
Link to comment
19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Like Pres Hinckley said in an interview, he doesn't know that we teach it.

First off, that part of the interview was referring to the first part of the couplet.  And he corrected himself and said we don’t emphasize it.  Why would he need to say “we don’t emphasize it” if he meant we don’t even teach it.  There is no need to say we don’t emphasize something if we don’t teach it.  That only makes sense as a correction of “teach”.  He realized that “teach” wasn’t the right word because we do teach the couplet….but if you check our online website (and I have), every reference to the couplet is pretty much referring to the second part, what happens to man in the future, not what happened to God in the past.  We don’t have much to say about the Father’s “past”….so we don’t say it.

When was the last time you heard across the pulpit, if ever, a reference to the Father being a mortal man like we are in his past besides it being said in the couplet?

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/archive/publications/does_president_hinckley_understand_lds_doctrine

Quote

about that, God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?

Quote

I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it.

 

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
44 minutes ago, Calm said:

First off, that part of the interview was referring to the first part of the couplet.  And he corrected himself and said we don’t emphasize it.  Why would he need to say “we don’t emphasize it” if he meant we don’t even teach it.  There is no need to say we don’t emphasize something if we don’t teach it.  That only makes sense as a correction of “teach”.  He realized that “teach” wasn’t the right word because we do teach the couplet….but if you check our online website (and I have), every reference to the couplet is pretty much referring to the second part, what happens to man in the future, not what happened to God in the past.  We don’t have much to say about the Father’s “past”….so we don’t say it.

When was the last time you heard across the pulpit, if ever, a reference to the Father being a man like we are besides it being said in the couplet?

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/archive/publications/does_president_hinckley_understand_lds_doctrine

 

Thanks, I was going to c/p the full quote by Pres Hinckley, should have. 

But do think in the interview it must have been difficult to answer a question like that at a seconds moment. And the way he handled it was pretty good. 

Edited by Tacenda
Link to comment
51 minutes ago, Sara H said:

I don't think most Mormons realize how different our gospel is from the Christian faith. In all honesty, the gospels are nothing alike. I could show you hundreds of quotes from Prophets and Apostles of our church that show that our faith goes beyond Christianity. This is why I don't like the idea of LDS people thinking we're Christians

You are right that we believe things that most Christians don't believe.  But that doesn't mean we aren't Christian.  You quoted Elder McConkie earlier and I showed you his definition of Christianity.  He stated that we are definitely Christians.  He would call us "true Christians" and the rest of Christianity as "so-called Christians", but he definitely calls us Christians.  We are 100% Christians.  You have never defined what a "Christian" so I don't know why you think we aren't.  The church has always seen itself as Christians.

57 minutes ago, Sara H said:

Don't get me wrong, I understand why LDS people want to be seen as Christians, because everyone wants to fit in, but the more we try to fit in, the more our core beliefs will be lost. If that's what the brethren want, then it's right for them to try to make our church look Christian.

You don't understand why the church leaders or many of its members want to be seen as Christians.  This very concept is completely wrong.  We don't want to be seen as Christians to "fit in".  We want to be seen as Christians because we believe in Him.  That's it.  That's the sole reason.  We have always been Christians since Joseph Smith restored the church.  It is not a new thing.

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

But do think in the interview it must have been difficult to answer a question like that at a seconds moment. And the way he handled it was pretty good. 

I agree.  I wish he hadn’t made the mistake of saying “teach”, but other than that it was a great answer.  And if people paid attention to the whole answer and the question that went with it, there would be a lot less criticism, imo.  Not none because of course it’s an unusual idea and it is part of an enduring couplet that is used in the Church.

Link to comment
10 hours ago, webbles said:

The church has always seen itself as Christians.

We call ourselves The Church of Jesus Christ.  Our Sacrament is done in the name of Christ to take upon us his name, to remember Christ, and to keep Christ’s commandments.

What else would that mean save to be Christians?

PS: because we claim the name for ourselves does not mean others who also see themselves acting in Christ’s name or for Christ or following Christ cannot claim the name as well anymore than because my name is Cris it means no one else in the world has a right to be called Cris/Chris/Kris (I always think of the name Chris this way due to the three “Chrises” of my high school class having these three variations).

PS added much later:  my given name means Christ bearer or follower of Christ.  The name Christian as my faith is as intimately and intensely belonging to me as my given name and has been since my mother told me my name’s meaning was the same meaning as my faith and how important it was to be a Christian, a Cris to the best of my ability, to live up to my name when I was very young. She probably told me the story of my name years before I could understand it and told me again and again until I could tell it back to her (my younger siblings were 7 years and younger than me, so I saw how she taught them the meaning of their names, names were important to my mother).  I would fight to use them both if necessary.  I staked my claim to being a Christian long before I knew anyone cared whether I did or not. And btw, my middle name is Ann which means Grace or God has favored me…a blessed name in my view all around.

Last name means blood letter, as in surgeon supposedly (it’s Jewish and blood letter is the German meaning and they are not sure of the original name, it might mean God is my Help).  Not sure how good that fits…

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
11 minutes ago, Calm said:

We call ourselves The Church of Jesus Christ.  Our Sacrament is done in the name of Christ to take upon us his name, to remember Christ, and to keep Christ’s commandments.

What else would that mean save to be Christians?

Plus 3 Nephi 27: 7-8

Quote

7 Therefore, whatsoever ye shall do, ye shall do it in my name; therefore ye shall call the church in my name; and ye shall call upon the Father in my name that he will bless the church for my sake.

8 And how be it amy bchurch save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.

Maybe the better question to ask @Sara H, what should we call ourselves?  If not Christians, what?  What is a better term than Christians that fits within Christ's teachings?

Link to comment
34 minutes ago, Calm said:

I agree.  I wish he hadn’t made the mistake of saying “teach”, but other than that it was a great answer.  And if people paid attention to the whole answer and the question that went with it, there would be a lot less criticism, imo.  Not none because of course it’s an unusual idea and it is part of an enduring couplet that is used in the Church.

He was kind of right by saying we don't teach it, do they in regular Sunday School? Maybe...

Link to comment
10 hours ago, Sara H said:

I don't think most Mormons realize how different our gospel is from the Christian faith. In all honesty, the gospels are nothing alike. I could show you hundreds of quotes from Prophets and Apostles of our church that show that our faith goes beyond Christianity. This is why I don't like the idea of LDS people thinking we're Christians. Let me show you the clearest difference between our gospel and the Christian gospel. Below is a picture of a single dot. That dot is the Christian God, and there are no other dots because there are no other Gods. According to Christianity, there is only one God. 

Screenshot_20230906_140925_Chrome.jpg.3a2305326849e0c86b4cda9c7ca1e17d.jpg

 

There are 100,000 dots in the picture below, but let's say there are an infinite amount of dots in this picture. So, when you really think about it, Islam is probably more like Christianity than the gospel we follow. The same could be said about the Jewish faith, because both belive in one God.

Screenshot_20230906_140943_Chrome.thumb.jpg.305b34a06715c7b49dc1963baf221fb9.jpg

Another way to look at it is this. If you add Protestants and Catholics together, there are 2.6 billion Christians, and almost all of them believe in one God. All 1.8 billion Muslims think that there is only one God. There are about 16 million Jews, and almost all of them think that there is only one God. Then there are people like us, who believe in more than one God. We don't know exactly how many Gods there are, but we think there are an endless number, and that number keeps growing as more of the gods' children die.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why LDS people want to be seen as Christians, because everyone wants to fit in, but the more we try to fit in, the more our core beliefs will be lost. If that's what the brethren want, then it's right for them to try to make our church look Christian. But if core beliefs are really important, then trying to fit into Christianity is the wrong way to spread church beliefs and teachings. What they should do is set us up to be seen as the fourth Abrahamic religion, different from the other three, and promote the fact that we believe in a Heavenly Mother and a pre mortal existence. Women make up 49.74% of the world's population, so talking about Heavenly mother instead of acting like she's a wallflower who doesn't have a voice would honor her, in my view, and change the world. But you can't act like Christians and do something like that at the same time. 

 

Seems like a straightforward question with a simple answer, why are you skirting the question except somehow you are a self proclaimed gate keeper of what Christianity is. 

Nemesis 

Link to comment
22 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

The point being I think we struggle mightily when we try to label things in a tight box rather than a loose interpretation. I don't really care how people label my relationship with God, I know what it is.

Agreed. 

I think what you are saying is consistent with the principle of religious tolerance and respect for others as illustrated in the eleventh Article of Faith: 

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

In this context I think we could say, "We claim the privilege of labeling ourselves in relationship to Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all mankind the same privilege... "

Link to comment
On 9/3/2023 at 3:07 PM, Sara H said:

Tell me about any other religious denominations that are associated with the Restored gospel.

Are you asking from their point of view or the LDS point of view? That makes a huge difference in the answer. There are many Christian groups that make a difference between being restorational and a part of the magisterial reformation a la Calvin and Zwingli. The whole Christian world doesn't reduce to Catholics/Orthodox, Protestants, and LDS.

Link to comment
On 9/5/2023 at 8:54 AM, Damien the Leper said:

Having a physical temple? Yes. That is as far as the comparison gets. I highly doubt Solomon's Temple included Masonic imagery and symbol. 

Do you not know of Hiram Abiff?

Link to comment
On 9/5/2023 at 10:44 AM, Sara H said:

Do you not think that what I just said about the Latter-day Saint movement is how most Christians feel? 

I think that "most Christians" know nothing or very very little about the Latter-day Saint movement. I don't think that most Christians feel anything about the LDS church and its adherents. Most probably they know that BYU has a football team that wins games they are not supposed to, and loses games they are supposed to win. Living, traveling and speaking here in Mexico, I have never had a Catholic describe any thoughts about or knowledge of any LDS doctrinal beliefs. Maybe they are familiar with white shirts and black tags, but that is it.

Link to comment
On 9/6/2023 at 11:43 AM, Sara H said:

I don't think most Mormons realize how different our gospel is from the Christian faith. In all honesty, the gospels are nothing alike. I could show you hundreds of quotes from Prophets and Apostles of our church that show that our faith goes beyond Christianity. This is why I don't like the idea of LDS people thinking we're Christians. Let me show you the clearest difference between our gospel and the Christian gospel. Below is a picture of a single dot. That dot is the Christian God, and there are no other dots because there are no other Gods. According to Christianity, there is only one God. 

Screenshot_20230906_140925_Chrome.jpg.3a2305326849e0c86b4cda9c7ca1e17d.jpg

 

There are 100,000 dots in the picture below, but let's say there are an infinite amount of dots in this picture. So, when you really think about it, Islam is probably more like Christianity than the gospel we follow. The same could be said about the Jewish faith, because both belive in one God.

Screenshot_20230906_140943_Chrome.thumb.jpg.305b34a06715c7b49dc1963baf221fb9.jpg

Another way to look at it is this. If you add Protestants and Catholics together, there are 2.6 billion Christians, and almost all of them believe in one God. All 1.8 billion Muslims think that there is only one God. There are about 16 million Jews, and almost all of them think that there is only one God. Then there are people like us, who believe in more than one God. We don't know exactly how many Gods there are, but we think there are an endless number, and that number keeps growing as more of the gods' children die.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why LDS people want to be seen as Christians, because everyone wants to fit in, but the more we try to fit in, the more our core beliefs will be lost. If that's what the brethren want, then it's right for them to try to make our church look Christian. But if core beliefs are really important, then trying to fit into Christianity is the wrong way to spread church beliefs and teachings. What they should do is set us up to be seen as the fourth Abrahamic religion, different from the other three, and promote the fact that we believe in a Heavenly Mother and a pre mortal existence. Women make up 49.74% of the world's population, so talking about Heavenly mother instead of acting like she's a wallflower who doesn't have a voice would honor her, in my view, and change the world. But you can't act like Christians and do something like that at the same time. 

 

Most folks here seem to be interested in hearing your definition of a Christian. I, on the other hand am interested in learning about your definition of "God" and "god." You use both a capital and a small case g in your posts. So, according to your thinking/belief what or who is God? what are God's attributes? What or who is a god and what are the attributes of gods? One last question? Of all the Gods/gods who or which is worthy to be worshiped? Thanks. Not a trick question. I really would like to know. Best.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...