To understand Jesus words and behavior we need to understand Jesus himself first

[Bassil]

"

although Jesus Himself was not
baptizing, but His disciples were

" (John, 4:2)

If we understood Jesus, we would know he doesn't approve of the baptism practice.

Explanation: after the death of John the Baptist, his disciples followed Jesus, and they were the ones who practiced baptism. If Jesus declared the practice was wrong he would be saying John the Baptist was wrong. Bad idea. By practicing Baptism, we are following John, not Jesus.

                               *          *            *

"

Then render to Caesar
the things that are Caesar's

" (Matthew, 22:21)

If we understood Jesus we would know he would never approve of unjust and tyranny. He said, if you believe that you have something belonging to Caesar then give it back to him. The question is, did people believe that they have something that belong to Caesar? They don't. Jesus didn't believe that Caesar has the right to tax people.

                           *          *          *

The verses in John 5:31-47 are tough to be understood without understanding Jesus himself. Jesus gives the keys to understanding his words. The key here is verse 39.

"

You search the Scriptures because
you think that in them you have eternal
life...

" (John, 5:39)

The key phrase here is, 'Because you think.' He didn't say, 'Because in them you eternal life.' He said, 'Because you think that in them you have eternal life.' Jesus says, 'The scriptures don't give us eternal life, but he does.'

Jesus doesn't accept the prophecies of so-called 'prophets.'

The only testimony Jesus accept is God's, through his works.

"

I do not accept praise from men

" (John, 5:41)

"

And the Father who sent me has
himself testified concerning me.

" (John, 5:37)

"

I have testimony weightier than that of
John. For the very work that the Father
has given me to finish, and which I am
doing, testifies that the Father has sent
me.

" (John, 5:36)

"

The miracles I do in
my Father's name speak for me

" (John, 10:25)

Someone may say, but Jesus said:

"

it is these that testify about Me

" (John, 5:39)

It means, 'Even your scriptures are on my side. They won't help you against me.'

Someone may say, but Jesus said:

"

For if you believed Moses, you would
believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

" (John, 5:46)

There's no Moses. Jesus here was making an analogy about his mission. This analogy was written in Exodus. Jesus would mention it again.

"

As Moses lifted up the serpent in the
wilderness, even so must the Son of
Man be lifted up

" (John, 3:14)

That was the analogy Jesus meant.

Jesus described the priesthood of the temple as 'serpents.' 

"

You serpents, you brood of vipers

" (Matthew, 23:33)

"

You brood of vipers

" (Matthew, 12:34)

What Jesus is saying, he came down to free us from religions represented by the priesthoods.

[Calm]

43 minutes ago, Bassil said:

we understood Jesus, we would know he doesn't approve of the baptism practice.

Why was he baptized himself then?

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/matt/3?lang=eng&id=16#p16

He also commanded his disciples to baptize.

Quote

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/matt/28?lang=eng&id=19#p19

Edited August 18, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

Jesus didn't believe that Caesar has the right to tax people.

How do you draw this conclusion?  I am very interested in why you believe these things.  Some of them are unusual.

When I post scriptures in response to your comments, it is not meant to argue with you but to explain what and why I believe differently and I am asking how you understand these verse which appear to me to contradict your ideas.  
 

If you don’t accept my belief, that’s fine. I am definitely not condemning you for having those beliefs.  I think it’s great you are exploring the scriptures, learning of Jesus and God from them.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

51 minutes ago, Bassil said:

Jesus doesn't accept the prophecies of so-called 'prophets.'

Do you mean he doesn’t accept any prophets?

Quote

What Jesus is saying, he came down to free us from religions represented by the priesthoods.

With rejecting prophets and priesthood, you have rejected Mormonism.    They are fundamental to our faith.  The leader of our Church is a modern prophet, a spokesman for God to his people.  And we believe that God’s priesthood that he has given to us is his power and authority.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/believe/restoration/god-speaks-to-us-through-prophets

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/priesthood?lang=eng

Edited August 18, 2023 by Calm

[Navidad]

That is a lot of scriptures without any context. I have read them over several times. I am not sure what it is you are saying and how you come to your interpretations and conclusions?

[Calm]

The priesthood of the temple were Levites, not Pharisees.  It was the latter he condemned.

Quote

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them…

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

The Pharisees were Jews that had a certain belief system…similar to how there are different forms of Judaism today.

Quote

In the New Testament, a religious group among the Jews whose name suggests being separate or apart. The Pharisees prided themselves on strictly observing the law of Moses and avoiding anything associated with the Gentiles. They believed in life after death, the Resurrection, and the existence of angels and spirits. They believed that the oral law and tradition were equally as important as the written laws. Their teachings reduced religion to the observance of rules and encouraged spiritual pride. They caused many Jewish people to doubt Christ and His gospel. The Lord denounced the Pharisees and their works in Matthew 23; Mark 7:1–23; and Luke 11:37–44.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/pharisees?lang=eng

Levites:

Quote

Descendants of Levi. The work of ministering in the sanctuary was assigned to this tribe. The Levites are sometimes spoken of as distinct from the priests (1 Kgs. 8:4; Ezra 2:70; John 1:19); sometimes as though all Levites were also priests, “the priests, the Levites” (Deut. 18:1; Josh. 3:3). The work of the Levites was to assist the priests (Num. 3:5–10; 18:1–7). They acted as musicians (1 Chr. 6:16, 31; 15:16; Neh. 11:17, 22); slaughtered the sacrifices (2 Chr. 29:34; 35:11; Ezra 6:20); and generally assisted in the temple (Neh. 11:16, 19). The Levites were themselves offered as a wave-offering on behalf of the children of Israel (Num. 8:11–15); they thus became God’s peculiar property, given to Him in place of the firstborn (8:16). They were cleansed for their office (8:7–16). They had no inheritance in Canaan (18:23–24); but they had the tithe (18:21), 48 cities (35:6), and a claim on the alms of the people at feast times (Deut. 12:18–19; 14:27–29).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/levites?lang=eng

Edited August 18, 2023 by Calm

[Bassil]

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Those verses proved not to be in old scriptures. They were added later.

[Bassil]

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

How do you draw this conclusion?  I am very interested in why you believe these things.  Some of them are unusual.

By understanding Jesus himself first we understand his words. 

[pogi]

So, if we can’t understand Jesus’ words until we understand Jesus himself…why are you quoting his words?  Seems as if you are trying to help me understand Jesus through his words - the very thing you claim can’t be done.  Hmmm….
 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by pogi

[Bassil]

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

When I post scriptures in response to your comments, it is not meant to argue with you

I didn't post this to argue with others. People would think I woke up one day and said what I said. In this post, I'm saying that's not the case.

[Bassil]

35 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you don’t accept my belief, that’s fine.

I don't judge anyone's beliefs. In fact, I'm not planning to post more posts like this one.

[Bassil]

38 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do you mean he doesn’t accept any prophets?

Yes.

"

All who came before Me are thieves
and robbers

" (John, 10:8)

[Bassil]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

With rejecting prophets and priesthood, you have rejected Mormonism.

No, I don't reject the Mormons. I just explain mine.

[Bassil]

39 minutes ago, Navidad said:

That is a lot of scriptures without any context. I have read them over several times. I am not sure what it is you are saying and how you come to your interpretations and conclusions?

Just explain my belief, not wanting to hurt anyone.

[Bassil]

14 minutes ago, pogi said:

So, if we can’t understand Jesus’ words until we understand Jesus himself…why are you quoting his words?

When we read the Gospels we can focus on understanding Jesus.

[JLHPROF]

3 minutes ago, Bassil said:

Just explain my belief, not wanting to hurt anyone.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.  But when it comes to Christianity it should jive with the Bible.

You say Jesus didn't approve of baptism.  The New Testament shows that is not so.

[Bassil]

1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

You say Jesus didn't approve of baptism.  The New Testament shows that is not so.

You can believe that.

[MustardSeed]

16 minutes ago, Bassil said:

Just explain my belief, not wanting to hurt anyone.

Be honest about your intentions because they are transparent to us, and if you aren’t up front you will not gain trust and therefore will have no influence to enlighten. 
You are here to do more than “just” share your belief.  That’s ok, just be honest. 

[juliann]

11 minutes ago, Bassil said:

You can believe that.

We have a tradition on this board called "call for documentation." That means you will be expected to support your opinons with something valid. So start documenting with acceptable sources. 

[Bassil]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Why was he baptized himself then?

That never happened. That John the Baptist baptized Jesus is a story based on hearsay, not witnessed.

[Bassil]

11 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Be honest about your intentions because they are transparent to us, and if you aren’t up front you will not gain trust and therefore will have no influence to enlighten. 
You are here to do more than “just” share your belief.  That’s ok, just be honest. 

I'm honest here. Some members asked to know me. I decided that there is no better way than a demonstration.

[Bassil]

12 minutes ago, juliann said:

We have a tradition on this board called "call for documentation."

I did.

[MustardSeed]

4 minutes ago, Bassil said:

I'm honest here. Some members asked to know me. I decided that there is no better way than a demonstration.

I’m suggesting gently that you be honest about your intentions.  Most of us who participate have been here for years and we know each other. We know intentions.  It would help for new folks to be transparent about their objectives here. 

[Bassil]

4 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I’m suggesting gently that you be honest about your intentions.  Most of us who participate have been here for years and we know each other. We know intentions.  It would help for new folks to be transparent about their objectives here.

I'm honest, and I'm not planning to post further posts like this one.

[juliann]

10 minutes ago, Bassil said:

I did.

You have not provided one iota of documentation, that means a source that you cite. Random scriptures aren't a source. 

So here is your first call for references, also known as CFR. If you continue with unsupported opinons after you have been asked for references, this thread will be reported.