Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Can I become a Mormon?


Bassil

Recommended Posts

I have several comments, none of which are connected to our new friend's desire to become LDS. I will leave that with all of you. My counsel is that I would be very cautious in offering him any advice that might put him at personal risk. Yemen is among the highest countries for persecution of Christians and other minority (to Islam) faiths. There are few privacy rights that we take for granted. Second, I am wondering if our friend has come in contact with any Marcionite Christians? As I ponder his beliefs over in my head, I hear much that sounds like ancient Marcionite teachings that still exist across the middle east. Third, I think sometimes we forget or simply don't know that there are many ancient Christian traditions, beliefs, and groups that were at one time or another considered heretical that are still practiced across the middle east, sometimes in seclusion and sometimes in the wide open. In the old times they were considered the "Eastern Church" (not to be confused with the Eastern Orthodox). From Ethiopia to Egypt to Iraq, Iran and into Turkey and the Caucasus regions, there are more than remnants of Gnostic, Nestorian, Yazidi, Chaldeans, and Marionites, in addition to Marcionites. What is my point? I am not sure, but it is not unusual for folks from the middle east who have explored Christianity to have some (or lots) of ancient 3rd to 7th century ideas built into their Christianity. I think I see some of that in the beliefs of our new friend. I don't know if any of this hurts or helps.  You know me, I just couldn't sit on the sidelines for the entire conversation! best to all.

Edited by Navidad
Link to comment
43 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I have several comments, none of which are connected to our new friend's desire to become LDS. I will leave that all with you. My counsel is that I would be very cautious in offering him any advice that might put him at personal risk. Yemen is among the highest countries for persecution of Christians and other minority (to Islam) faiths. There are few privacy rights that we take for granted. Second, I am wondering if our friend has come in contact with any Marcionite Christians? As I ponder his beliefs over in my head, I hear much that sounds like ancient Marcionite teachings that still exist across the middle east. Third, I think sometimes we forget or simply don't know that there are many ancient Christian traditions, beliefs, and groups that were at one time or another considered heretical that are still practiced across the middle east, sometimes in seclusion and sometimes in the wide open. In the old times they were considered the "Eastern Church" (not to be confused with the Eastern Orthodox). From Ethiopia to Egypt to Iraq, Iran and into Turkey and the Caucasus regions, there are more than remnants of Gnostic, Nestorian, Yazidi, Chaldeans, and Marionites. What is my point? I am not sure, but it is not unusual for folks from the middle east who have explored Christianity to have some (or lots) of ancient 3rd to 7th century ideas built into their Christianity. I think I see some of that in the beliefs of our new friend. I don't know if any of this hurts or helps.  You know me, I just couldn't sit on the sidelines for the entire conversation! best to all.

I had been wondering if some of his resources and ideas were present in his area, but not very available in ours.  It is an unusual idea to me to accept scriptures in the New Testament that deal with Christ in one limited way, but treat the rest as not only irrelevant but morally wrong (all prophets as false or nonexistent, for examples).

Link to comment
On 8/17/2023 at 10:28 PM, Bassil said:

Other Christians don't show tolerance. I was banned from many forums and groups. Gnostic Christians on Reddit were OK, but I can't reach Reddit anymore. Reddit just disappeared! I looked for forums, but I didn't find any active gnostic forums. I was desperate, then I started thinking, there's the Mormons. They are in Utah and maybe a few in the UK, I told myself. I was surprised to know that Mormons are all over Latin America. I considered myself a Protestant, but they are super sensitive and angry. The one in Egypt would tolerate me but I failed to contact them. Mormons was a desperate move, I admit it. I started to like you, and I hope that continues.

 Hello Bassil, and welcome!

I am a former Mormon, and am no longer a member of any organized religion.  I respect your beliefs, and I think Mormonism is an excellent path, with many enlightening teachings.  I think Joseph Smith would have enjoyed your company very much, whether or not you became a member of the LDS Church. 

It is possible that some of your beliefs cannot be reconciled with Mormonism, such as your belief that Jesus doesn't approve of baptism (which you stated in another thread). 

Personally I am very comfortable with your process of following what the Holy Spirit teaches you.  In my opinion THAT is what we're supposed to do. 

If the main thing you are looking for is a welcoming community, the most tolerant Christian religion I am aware of is the Unitarian Universalist Church.  They are deliberately focused on being inclusive; my understanding is that they do not exclude people based on differences in beliefs.  So while they are not likely to actually AGREE with your beliefs, they unlikely to exclude you BECAUSE of your beliefs. 

You can find out more about them here:  https://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/beliefs

 

Link to comment
3 hours ago, manol said:

It is possible that some of your beliefs cannot be reconciled with Mormonism, such as your belief that Jesus doesn't approve of baptism (which you stated in another thread). 

He does not approve of baptism practiced by John the Baptist. Dipping people into the water and all forgiven! You may think I got it wrong. But that is what John was doing, and that's why people kept coming to him to get baptized at the Jordan River.

Link to comment
On 8/17/2023 at 8:12 PM, edvantageous said:

To find a meeting house or where you could attend church services near you, you can do a search here:

I used it, but there are none. Thank you for the effort.

Link to comment
24 minutes ago, Bassil said:

He does not approve of baptism practiced by John the Baptist. Dipping people into the water and all forgiven!

Interesting!

What are your thoughts on forgiveness? 

Link to comment
18 minutes ago, manol said:

What are your thoughts on forgiveness? 

God doesn't get angry with us. He improves us through the Holy Spirit. It's all about improvement. And there's no punishment.

Link to comment
37 minutes ago, Bassil said:

God doesn't get angry with us. He improves us through the Holy Spirit. It's all about improvement. And there's no punishment.

Omigosh!  I think you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!  Almost nobody comes to that conclusion on their own.

So imo here is the beneficial role John's baptism might have played:  For a society that was immersed in fear of an angry God, believing in "forgiveness" through baptism was a massive improvement over believing they were condemned by God and destined for punishment.  The forgiveness teaching that accompanied John's baptism was what might be called a "happy illusion".

The truth (that God never condemned them in the first place!) would have required the Jewish people to go against most of what they deeply believed about God, and that would have been too much for most of them, so they probably would have rejected that teaching entirely and retreated back into their fear-dominated belief system.

In this sense it seems to me that John the Baptist helped prepared people for the higher truth Jesus had to offer them, because making the leap from "angry vengeful God" to "God is love and never condemns us in the first place" all at once would have been too much for most people. 

Edited by manol
Link to comment
13 minutes ago, manol said:

In this sense it seems to me that John the Baptist helped prepared people for the higher truth Jesus had to offer

If you believe so. No matter the truth about John the Baptist is, it won't hinder either of us from growing. It's not a big deal. 

Link to comment
On 8/17/2023 at 7:26 AM, bluebell said:

but we don't believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.

But we call it the Godhead consisting of the Father Son and HG, unified as one  by their Purpose which is the immortality and eternal lives of all mankind 

Link to comment
16 hours ago, Bassil said:

He does not approve of baptism practiced by John the Baptist. Dipping people into the water and all forgiven! You may think I got it wrong. But that is what John was doing, and that's why people kept coming to him to get baptized at the Jordan River.

Hmmm.  Since Christ himself was baptized by John the Baptist, I have a difficult time understanding how Christ would not approve of John the Baptist or of the baptisms he performed.

Link to comment
16 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Hmmm.  Since Christ himself was baptized by John the Baptist, I have a difficult time understanding how Christ would not approve of John the Baptist or of the baptisms he performed.

I don't blame you. I think you missed some of my comments about the alleged event when Jesus was baptized by John. I believe that that event never happened. Until before his death people were thinking of John as the Messiah. People loved both Jesus and John so they told stories about them that put them in the same context. Those stories had their way into the Gospels, but non of the apostles witnessed that event. It was all hearsay. What the apostles witnessed is the event was told in Matthew, 11:1-6. It was clear that John doesn't believe in Jesus, and he was questioning Jesus' motives. Jesus sensed that vibe coming from John's question, so he answered firmly, 'Blessed is he who does not take
offense at Me.
' Jesus and John didn't like each other, but they had to put up with each other. Baptized by water isn't Jesus' way. It was John's way. I believe in Jesus, not John.

Link to comment

Why do you stop at verse 6?  Why not include verses 7-15 where Jesus is praising John?

What in these verses makes it clear to you John doesn’t believe in Jesus as opposed to not be sure who he is?

Quote

When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”

Assuming John was asking for his own sake and not giving his disciples a chance to encounter Jesus and accept him on their own.

Edited by Calm
Link to comment

Jesus quotes or references the Old Testament a lot, yet you reject it.  So why does Jesus use it to teach so much in your view (since you apparently believe it was written by false prophets), including pointing to prophecy that has been fulfilled by him?

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
9 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

But we call it the Godhead consisting of the Father Son and HG, unified as one  by their Purpose which is the immortality and eternal lives of all mankind 

Yes, and some of our differences are semantics.  But not all of our differences are.

Link to comment
20 hours ago, Calm said:

Assuming John was asking for his own sake and not giving his disciples a chance to encounter Jesus and accept him on their own.

As you can see, John already knows about Jesus' deeds. When Jesus answered John's question, he just mentioned his deeds. That was not the answer John was waiting for because he already heard about those deeds. John knew that Jesus wouldn't give a straight answer, and he probably wanted his disciples to see it.

By the way, Jesus praised John in Luka's. The problem is that Luka wasn't a witness.

Link to comment
21 hours ago, Calm said:

What in these verses makes it clear to you John doesn’t believe in Jesus as opposed to not be sure who he is?

It's not just these verses. Jesus didn't show sorrow for what happened to John.

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
8/17/2023 at 9:06 AM, Chum said:

 and

are kinda different things. I'm not even sure they overlap.

I meant accepted as a member.

 

Simple, to be baptized one must believe or have Faith in God the Father and his literal Son Jesus Christ, repent of your sins, be baptized by someone who has authority and then receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS.  

 

 

 

Link to comment
On 8/21/2023 at 3:06 AM, Bassil said:

It's not just these verses. Jesus didn't show sorrow for what happened to John.

God should show sorrow because one of his most faithful sons returned home to be glorified?

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, rjohnson7 said:

Did you join the Church because of intellectual reasoning or because of personal revelation?   I have no problem with either... 

who are you asking the question of?

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...