Did L. Ron Hubbard use Mormonism to invent Scientology

[RAD DAD]

Recent months have found me immersed in the study of scientology, and it is through these studies that I have come to the conclusion that L. Ron Hubbard most likely drew inspiration for the development of scientology from Mormonism. Many of the beliefs and practises that can be found within scientology are very similar to those that can be found within Mormonism; however, these similarities are carefully hidden just enough so that you cannot detect them unless you dig a little deeper. The following are some similarities that may be found between Mormonism and Scientology. 

1. A spiritual being resides in a human's physical body, giving humans the ability to live forever.

2. The spirit has a history on another planet and was a member of a different culture before it came to this world.

3. Scientologists believe that in order to access their particular powers, they must first be "cleared" of any undesirable behavioural patterns. Mormons believe that if they repent and are forgiven for their sins, they will be able to tap into the power of the priesthood, which is power that no one else on earth possesses, and use that power to heal the sick as well as defend themselves and others.

4. Scientologists think that they were sent to earth to learn how to survive, and that his survival is dependent on the activities that he performs here on earth, if he obeys the laws of scientology, eternal life is possible; Mormons believe that the deeds they perform here on earth will ultimately bring them back to God and an eternal life.

5. In order to grow their membership, both Mormons and Scientologists engage in extensive recruiting. 

6. Like Mormons, members of the Scientology religion believe they were sent to earth to fight when called upon.

7. Both Mormons and Scientologists agree to a contract with an extraterrestrial being that will last forever. However, whereas Mormons make this agreement in the form of a covenant (a spiritual contract), Scientologists sign a billion year contract in physical form. 

Many more comparisons to come. Please feel free to add to my list if you so wish and I look forward to discussing this further. 

[rpn]

I'd argue that because Scientologists do not operate with anything seemingly related to free will or agency, that it takes nothing at all from the teachings of Jesus Christ.   If you were suggesting that it is the epitome of every thing that cannot help us become what all mortals come to earth to do, I'd agree with you.  

[RAD DAD]

23 minutes ago, rpn said:

I'd argue that because Scientologists do not operate with anything seemingly related to free will or agency, that it takes nothing at all from the teachings of Jesus Christ.   If you were suggesting that it is the epitome of every thing that cannot help us become what all mortals come to earth to do, I'd agree with you.  

It seems to me that one could make an argument that the fundamental beliefs of scientology allow for more personal agency than those of Mormonism. Scientology, for instance, does not insist that its adherents believe only in Scientology, in contrast to Mormonism, which will almost certainly excommunicate a member for embracing and joining a different church. Scientology does not adhere to any particular religious dogma and welcomes people of all faiths and backgrounds into its ranks. 

[Tacenda]

There was a thread comparing Scientologists to LDS a few years ago, I'll try to find and link and maybe that might be interesting. And I'll edit to add.

Tons of google prompts come up about the comparison. 

Here's one that totally bothered me at the time, glad the church stopped the I'm a Mormon campaign. https://www.scribd.com/document/200571599/Mormon-and-Scientologist-Ad-Campaigns-Who-Copied-Who

Edited May 7, 2023 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

56 minutes ago, RAD DAD said:

It seems to me that one could make an argument that the fundamental beliefs of scientology allow for more personal agency than those of Mormonism. Scientology, for instance, does not insist that its adherents believe only in Scientology, in contrast to Mormonism, which will almost certainly excommunicate a member for embracing and joining a different church. Scientology does not adhere to any particular religious dogma and welcomes people of all faiths and backgrounds into its ranks. 

I think it depends on how deeply into Scientology a person goes. Up to a point it’s really just expensive self improvement classes. After that the commitment required seems to increase dramatically and what you can say express without being labeled a “subversive person” appears to decrease.

Full fledged Scientologists also believe that L Ron Hubbard didn’t die. Instead they believe that he made the choice to “drop his body” so he could move on into the next stages of development.  

[RAD DAD]

16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think it depends on how deeply into Scientology a person goes. Up to a point it’s really just expensive self improvement classes. After that the commitment required seems to increase dramatically and what you can say express without being labeled a “subversive person” appears to decrease.

A good number of my Christian and Jewish acquaintances have told me that Mormonism is nothing more than an extremely pricey self-improvement course that lasts a lifetime. Which, in my case, is correct. I plan to work for 35 to 40 years and make somewhere between 5 and 6 million dollars at that period. This means that I will donate somewhere in the range of 5 to 6 hundred thousand dollars to the church, or even more if I include fast offerings in my giving. 

 

17 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Full fledged Scientologists also believe that L Ron Hubbard didn’t die. Instead they believe that he made the choice to “drop his body” so he could move on into the next stages of development

Am I correct in assuming that Mormons think Joseph is still alive and that he has moved on to the next stage of everlasting development where he is striving towards becoming a God someday?

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, RAD DAD said:

A good number of my Christian and Jewish acquaintances have told me that Mormonism is nothing more than an extremely pricey self-improvement course that lasts a lifetime. Which, in my case, is correct. I plan to work for 35 to 40 years and make somewhere between 5 and 6 million dollars at that period. This means that I will donate somewhere in the range of 5 to 6 hundred thousand dollars to the church, or even more if I include fast offerings in my giving. 

 

Am I correct in assuming that Mormons think Joseph is still alive and that he has moved on to the next stage of everlasting development where he is striving towards becoming a God someday?

I can see why some would view 10% as pricey. They probably tip really poorly. 😂

And no, Latter-day Saints don’t believe that JS had the power to separate his spirit from his body on command. They believe he died. 

[RAD DAD]

20 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I can see why some would view 10% as pricey. They probably tip really poorly. 😂

In example, a devout Mormon may spend more, and in some cases quite a bit more, over the course of their lifetime supporting their religion. A typical scientologist may spend between two hundred and three hundred thousand dollars while working their way up the organization's "ladder." Is it reasonable to conclude that?

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, RAD DAD said:

A good number of my Christian and Jewish acquaintances have told me that Mormonism is nothing more than an extremely pricey self-improvement course that lasts a lifetime. Which, in my case, is correct. I plan to work for 35 to 40 years and make somewhere between 5 and 6 million dollars at that period. This means that I will donate somewhere in the range of 5 to 6 hundred thousand dollars to the church, or even more if I include fast offerings in my giving. 

I suggest you and your Christian interlocutors have a look at the New Testament and read it really, really closely. I believe you will find Jesus himself advising his followers that if they cannot give up everything for him, up to and including their lives, they aren't worthy of him. I can't recommend anything in particular, scripturally, for your Jewish friends, but they might consider exploring Leviticus with an eye to determining how much the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob expects of them.

Doesn't that make a mere 10% of your increase, and 1/7th of your week look a bit more affordable?

And good luck on the millions.

1 hour ago, RAD DAD said:

Am I correct in assuming that Mormons think Joseph is still alive and that he has moved on to the next stage of everlasting development where he is striving towards becoming a God someday?

Where are you getting this crap? Or probably more to the point, are you making this crap up? Or is your hobby internet trolling?

Aside from those of us still here, every human who has lived on this earth "has moved on to the next stage of everlasting development." And no, Joseph Smith's body lies moldering in the grave. Just like everyone else's, with the exception of those who got cremated, were buried at sea, or whose body has otherwise completely dispersed.

 

[blackstrap]

I am sure I am not the only person who has noticed that both Mormons and Scientologists often use the same prepositions in their communication. It is uncanny how common this is. 🥴

[Pyreaux]

6 hours ago, RAD DAD said:

Recent months have found me immersed in the study of scientology, and it is through these studies that I have come to the conclusion that L. Ron Hubbard most likely drew inspiration for the development of scientology from Mormonism. Many of the beliefs and practises that can be found within scientology are very similar to those that can be found within Mormonism; however, these similarities are carefully hidden just enough so that you cannot detect them unless you dig a little deeper. The following are some similarities that may be found between Mormonism and Scientology. 

1. A spiritual being resides in a human's physical body, giving humans the ability to live forever.

2. The spirit has a history on another planet and was a member of a different culture before it came to this world.

3. Scientologists believe that in order to access their particular powers, they must first be "cleared" of any undesirable behavioural patterns. Mormons believe that if they repent and are forgiven for their sins, they will be able to tap into the power of the priesthood, which is power that no one else on earth possesses, and use that power to heal the sick as well as defend themselves and others.

4. Scientologists think that they were sent to earth to learn how to survive, and that his survival is dependent on the activities that he performs here on earth, if he obeys the laws of scientology, eternal life is possible; Mormons believe that the deeds they perform here on earth will ultimately bring them back to God and an eternal life.

5. In order to grow their membership, both Mormons and Scientologists engage in extensive recruiting. 

6. Like Mormons, members of the Scientology religion believe they were sent to earth to fight when called upon.

7. Both Mormons and Scientologists agree to a contract with an extraterrestrial being that will last forever. However, whereas Mormons make this agreement in the form of a covenant (a spiritual contract), Scientologists sign a billion year contract in physical form. 

Many more comparisons to come. Please feel free to add to my list if you so wish and I look forward to discussing this further. 

I don't know, dude. So far it seems mostly superficial. Scientology believes in reincarnation rather than preincarnation. and the inclusion of a planet seems to be just popular science fiction of that era rather than a clear lift from Mormonism, they could just as easily have gleaned these other things from Christianity.

1. Christians believe a spiritual being resides in a human's physical body, giving humans the ability to live forever.

2. The Bible says a spirit from heaven came into our mortal bodies and it will return (the duration of that pre-mortal life is disputed).

3. Christians believe that in order to access their spiritual powers, they must first be "cleared" of any undesirable behavioral patterns. If they repent and are forgiven for their sins, a power that no non-Christian possesses, and use that power to heal the sick as well as defend themselves and others.

4. Christians believe that the deeds they perform (confessing faith and baptism) here on earth will ultimately bring them back to God and an eternal life.

5. In order to grow their membership, both Christian engage in extensive recruiting (some more than others). 

6. Christians believe they were sent to earth, chosen, predestined for a purpose.

7. Christians agree to a contract (salvation) with an extraterrestrial being that will last forever.

But don't let me discourage your study. I'd like to see a list, I need to see more, I'd be glad if someone could describe any initiation details, are there any robes or rites?  I'm working on tracing the royal cult though the ages and would like to know how much is in Scientology might have in it.

Man, you need to get The Urantia Book. It's on another level, it's very much like if Mormon believed in Trinitarian metaphysics and we dialed it up to 11. Just keep in mind that distinctions matter.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Pyreaux

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, RAD DAD said:

In example, a devout Mormon may spend more, and in some cases quite a bit more, over the course of their lifetime supporting their religion. A typical scientologist may spend between two hundred and three hundred thousand dollars while working their way up the organization's "ladder." Is it reasonable to conclude that?

Maybe depending on a person’s perspective (from mine, 10% is not pricey), but a Scientologist will have to spend that (and likely much more) even if their income is zero dollars.  That is very different than for a Latter-day Saint.  I know devout saints who pay zero in tithing and still hold a temple recommend.

And a Scientologist (as I understand it. I’m trying to only use official sources) can’t access any of the benefits of the religion without first paying  hundreds of dollars (again, even if they have no income).  That is also different from how the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints functions.

[rpn]

4 hours ago, RAD DAD said:

t seems to me that one could make an argument that the fundamental beliefs of scientology allow for more personal agency than those of Mormonism. Scientology, for instance, does not insist that its adherents believe only in Scientology, in contrast to Mormonism, which will almost certainly excommunicate a member for embracing and joining a different church. Scientology does not adhere to any particular religious dogma and welcomes people of all faiths and backgrounds into its ranks. 

They just require you believe only in a mortal, Ron Hubbard, who controls every aspect of your life, even after you leave and renounce the faith because joining the movement includes signing an agreement that every dispute will be heard by arbitrators selected by them, with no independent oversight.

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Maybe depending on a person’s perspective (from mine, 10% is not pricey), but a Scientologist will have to spend that (and likely much more) even if their income is zero dollars.  That is very different than for a Latter-day Saint.  I know devout saints who pay zero in tithing and still hold a temple recommend.

And a Scientologist (as I understand it. I’m trying to only use official sources) can’t access any of the benefits of the religion without first paying  hundreds of dollars (again, even if they have no income).  That is also different from how the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints functions.

Yes, Scientology is truly evil, especially when they separate children from their parents and others raise them. 😡

Edited May 7, 2023 by Tacenda