Eve excelled over Adam in wisdom?

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

I have heard women express their dislike for Mother’s Day.  I absolutely love Father’s Day.  It’s easily my favorite Sunday all year.

Please help me understand why women hate “their” day so badly.

It is the day were women hear about how extra special and more spiritual they are (the "pandering" bluebell talks about).   That is harmful for all the reasons that have been mentioned.  I was asked to speak on Mother's day several years ago.  Little did the 1st counselor know that it has always been a painful day for us (my wife would skip church that day) due to infertility issues.  I wrote a talk for all the other reasons it is a difficult day for many, besides the reasons mentioned above.   I have never received as much positive feedback for a talk as I did this one.  If you are interested:

 

Quote

 

When Mother’s Day is Difficult

 

Today is a special day for Emily and I, but it wasn’t always that way.  To give you a little introduction to our background, Emily and I have been married for almost 11 years now.  In the first year or two of our marriage, we liked to talk a lot about our future family together.    We felt a strong responsibility to our future children, and worked hard to place ourselves in a position to raise them in a financially, emotionally, and spiritually sound home.

It was an exciting time as we dreamed about our future family - what they might look like, and what kind of little characters a combination of the two of us would make.  We even had names picked out early on…Oliver James for our little boy, and Penny Lane for a little girl.   I liked to think about my future kids a lot, to the point that I began to form a sort of relationship with these little creations of my mind.  It’s hard to explain, but I felt closeness to them.

Never did we anticipate or consider that children might not be in our future. Month after month, after month, after year, after year, after year, after procedure after procedure, after heartache after heartache, we would renew our hope for children, only to find our hopes dashed in pieces every single time for the next eight years.  After LDS family services closed their doors to adoption services, private adoption became financially out of reach for our situation. Hope for us became associated with the inevitable dagger and pain of discouragement.

They say that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting a different result.  By that definition, I think it is pretty safe to say that we were insane.  We began to realize just how insane it all was to keep putting ourselves through this.  But we also recognized that to put away this insanity, meant to put away those children we had grown to love in our minds.  It meant that we would have to bury forever from our hopes and dreams, our little Oliver James and Penny Lane. 

Brothers and Sisters, Mother’s Day is a beautiful and wonderful day of celebration.  But for some, it can be a painful reminder of what we long for but cannot have.  And for others, it can be a reminder of the tender loss or terminal illness of a beloved mother or child, or struggles with other unique mothering circumstances.

There are single mothers who are struggling to get by.  There are mothers who may feel a sense of inadequacy or frustration in their roles.  There are those whose relationship with their mothers or with their children are struggling – and many more situations with their own unique challenges. All of these things can potentially cast a shadow over this day for some and can make celebration feel painful. 

In a blog that I recently read, one mother wisely said, “When holidays come, we often put expectations on ourselves to feel a certain way.  We think, “This is a special occasion.  I have to put on a happy face and make the best of it.”  But it’s okay to feel sad and even cry.  It has been said that, “we grieve because we love.  It’s also helpful to realize that emotions are not good or bad.  They are just messengers that tell us about what’s going on in our lives.” 

Emily and I know what it feels like to grieve on Mother’s day.  If Mother’s Day is a difficult day for you, I think it is important to give yourself permission to grieve in your own way on this day.  

We eventually came to be at peace with our infertility, and had come to accept a new vision for our lives. However, just shy of our tenth wedding anniversary, we received some delightful and totally unexpected news.  We were going to be parents! On August 19, 2016, almost 9 months ago months ago, little Olie, whom I had buried in my mind, rose from that imagined grave and came into the world.  He was born with a full, thick head of brilliant white hair and was completely radiant.  Our doctor commented that he had never seen anything like it, and that our baby had the hair of an angel.

We frequently get asked, “Who did he get his white hair from?” Well, he didn’t really get it from either of us in the way you might expect.  But technically, he did get it from both of us.  Oliver was born with a rare recessive genetic disorder called Oculocutaneous Albinism, which means that he was born without any pigment in his hair, skin and eyes.  This condition causes harmful sun sensitivity, and can also cause severe visual impairment to the point of legal blindness. We won’t be able to know the full extent of his visual impairment until he learns to talk.   Through these challenges that we are learning to navigate, we love our little Oliver so much and are incredibly grateful to have him in our family.

I want to share a message from Sister Sharon Eubank who is now the first counselor in the General Relief Society Presidency.  She spoke at the FAIR Mormon conference on the topic of women in the church in 2014.  Her talk can be found on LDS.org.  One part of her speech that I found particularly enlightening said:

“Eve was so desirous to be a mother that she sacrificed Eden for it, knowingly and lovingly.   Adam called his wife’s name Eve, which means the “mother of all living”, this is interesting in that she did not yet have children.   She was given a divine title…and whether you have children in this life or not and receive your endowment, you are given a name, and you are an inheritor of that…and have the title to be a mother.   The gospel gives you the inherent title to be a mother, and it is yours through your covenant.  It is promised to you, whether in this brief life upon the earth or in the span of the eternities, it is yours through covenant.”

That knowledge and eternal perspective really helped me to cope with the pain of infertility.  Knowing that someday I would have the opportunity to be a father personally gave me a lot of comfort, even if that meant waiting until the millennium.  However, having said that, I don’t want to diminish the grieving that anybody may be experiencing right now, or give the impression that the comfort you receive from the hope of a future day should somehow replace the pain that you may be feeling today…it doesn’t, and it’s OK to grieve.  Yet, Sister Eubank’s words reveal a glorious message for those who have lost hope in motherhood. 

What a beautiful gospel this is to show us the structure and pattern of the eternities.  It is through this gospel that we have been introduced to another powerful truth and beautifully unique Mormon teaching.  This truth was proclaimed to the world in the document The Family: A Proclamation to the World.  It proclaims that we are all beloved children of heavenly parents.  This truth was further expounded upon in one of the recent Gospel Topics Essays published by the Church entitled, Mother in Heaven.

The doctrine of a heavenly Mother gives hope, perspective, and divinity to the role and title of Mother.  It gives proper perspective to all the covenant daughters of the divine feminine, whose image you have in your countenance.  President Spencer W. Kimball taught, “God made women in the image of his wife- partner”, the Mother of Heaven.  

I didn’t want to let this Mother’s Day pass by without at least acknowledging and honoring Her, Her title and role in our lives.  She, along with Mother Eve are the common grounds upon which we can all recognize and honor our shared Mothers, and celebrate this day.   President George F. Richards said that our heavenly parents are “counting on us to honor them, to love them, and obey them. ‘ Thou shalt honor thy father and they mother.’” He said, “This commandment applies to both earthly and heavenly parents.”

I feel to honor Heavenly Mother this day for Her role in my life.  Elder Jeffrey R. Holland taught us a little about that role.  He said, “our Mother and our Father are involved in the ongoing process of creating everything around us, and are doing so lovingly and carefully masterfully.”  And President Harold B. Lee said, “Sometimes we think the whole job is up to us, forgetful that there are loved ones beyond our sight who are thinking about us and our children.  We forget that we have Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother who are even more concerned, probably, than our earthly father and mother, and that influences from beyond are constantly working to try to help us…” Elder Holland’s and President Lee’s remarks touch on how actively involved our Heavenly Mother may be in our day-to-day lives.  While we have been advised by President Gordon B. Hinckley to not pray to Heavenly Mother, we can all make a sacred space for her in our hearts and allow that influence into our lives, which President Harold B. Lee spoke of.

In closing, I want to share with you one last final quote from Elder Glenn L. Pace of the First Quorum of the Seventy.  Speaking of our heavenly mother and to all women who may be struggling to find their place due to infertility or any other reason, he said in a BYU devotional, “Sisters, I testify that when you stand in front of your heavenly parents in those royal courts on high and you look into Her eyes and behold Her countenance, any question you ever had about the role of women in the kingdom will evaporate into the rich celestial air, because at that moment you will see standing directly in front of you, your divine nature and destiny.” 

I love that!  Sisters you are inherent daughters of the title of Mother.  Out of all the titles that we hold, Mother and Father are the only ones that I can think of that we share in common with our Godly parents.  This knowledge takes these titles from the mundane and ordinary and places them in the category of sacred and divine. 

I recognize that in the humdrum of day to day life, the title of mother may not always feel so noble, but please recognize that we are merely in the embryonic stage of our development into divinity, so give yourselves some much deserved slack.  It is my prayer on this day that as we celebrate and honor both our Heavenly and earthly mothers, that we also make a place in our heart to be aware of and even mourn with those who may be mourning on this day for various reasons.  

It was exactly two years ago today that Emily was having a particularly difficult Mother’s Day when my parents stopped by to visit.  Right as my dad entered the door, he put his arm around Emily in a side hug, pulling her in and said simply, “I’ve been thinking about you today”.  Emily later told me how touched she was by that simple gesture, and how that is all she needed to hear.  So to any sisters who may be having a difficult day today, I just want you to know that I am thinking about you today.

I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

 

 

When I wrote this talk, Penny Lane was not a reality - but she is now   

Edited March 28, 2023 by pogi

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

the hating of Mother's Day Sunday in particular is a main and constant theme being discussed since I was in my 20s and noticed it (I'm 46 now).  I know more than one woman who refuses to go to church on Mother's Day because they hate the 'pandering" talks so much.

Same here and I am 64

[Calm]

58 minutes ago, Durangout said:

I have heard women express their dislike for Mother’s Day.  I absolutely love Father’s Day.  It’s easily my favorite Sunday all year.

Please help me understand why women hate “their” day so badly.

Some basic reasons I have heard over 45 years…some were more common in the past…there are more, but got to go…there are also more complicated ones but I don’t have time to get into them 

1) Because it feels fake, forced, which makes any praise patronizing in any situation (my guess is most people know how that feels, praise that is done by the numbers rather than what actually is going on emphasizes the speaker’s neglect or lack of awareness rather than highlighting the person’s value)

2) because in the past it was one day where the rest of the year the same stuff was mostly ignored and the yearly spotlight just made the neglect stand out more; the example of neglect often given was on “her day” Mom gets to go back home and spend hours making the feast and then hours cleaning up in the kitchen while the men “celebrate her” in the other room.  Also men seemed to think that one day’s breakfast in bed earns them the right to do nothing for meals for the rest of the year, including thanking his wife or mother for the efforts.  Or that men were expected to be praised for their one day of gratefulness while she was just expected to provide that type of care for them the rest of the year; iow, Mother’s Day felt more like it was about men wanting to be praised for being good husbands rather than being about the women getting recognition for what they were doing

3) previously only mothers were ever celebrated or held up as the ideal, single or childless women were reminded again they weren’t really seen by others in the Church.  This one is a hard one to get the balance right on. Easy to come across as patronizing. The only way to really deal with it is to include single or childless women in the manuals, the talks, etc. Make it natural for them to be seen as an essential and recognized part of the membership and not an afterthought or pitied as having their lives on hold while they wait for the blessings that give women value in the Church, marriage and motherhood

4) since Primary often did the Mother’s Day stuff with the kids, it was just weird for some as Primary was primarily women leaders…women were being required to do the work to celebrate them, similar to how Mom makes the feast that others enjoy to celebrate her…or like Mom being given money and told to buy herself a nice gift rather than Dad bothering to make the effort and yet Dad thinks Mom should feel appreciated 

[pogi]

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

and I am 64

And we all still need you!  I'd feed you too, if I could.

 

 

 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

I have heard women express their dislike for Mother’s Day.  I absolutely love Father’s Day.  It’s easily my favorite Sunday all year.

Please help me understand why women hate “their” day so badly.

Usually it's one or two reasons.  The woman is struggling with fertility issues or otherwise never had children and being in a place that is hyper focused on celebrating motherhood is painful.  And/or, the woman hears all the great things being said about wives and mothers and she does not believe she measures up so she feels like a failure (or it causes her to focus on her perceived failures in those areas, even if she doesn't feel like a failure overall).

Women often take things very personally, tend to lead with our weaknesses, and are generally very introspective.  This combination seems to produce people who are fault-focused.  The more praise is heaped upon women the more those perceived faults and failures become highlighted in some women's minds.

Men don't seem to be built that way.

To some extent it can also be an issue of having the "it's your day!!" shoved in your face while it not actually being our day at all.  This is especially true for moms with little kids.  Mother's day and Father's day are often celebrated quite differently, with wives often treating it as a day off for the husbands while husbands sometimes don't do the same for their wives.  That doesn't really have much to do with going to church but it can add to why some women would rather skip the day than not.

[Calm]

I should add a lot of women would be dismissive of their own feelings, saying this is how they felt about Mother’s Day, their gut response, but they knew their husbands value them so they did not see reality as that way and they might feel guilt even they weren’t gushing in gratitude (ah, those were the days 🤮 ) about feeling that way though others did feel there was quite a bit of reality in those feelings and hearing the stories, they had a right to.

There was one awful case when I was a teen where they had the whole family (large one, the youngest child was my age, all very active and devout) speak on Mother’s Day and while they all extolled mothers in general, they pretty much only personalized it by making jokes about their own mother/wife who was the type who was slowly killing herself to serve her family, very dismissive of her as a person. It was very sad. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

It is the day were women hear about how extra special and more spiritual they are (the "pandering" bluebell talks about).   That is harmful for all the reasons that have been mentioned.  I was asked to speak on Mother's day several years ago.  Little did the 1st counselor know that it has always been a painful day for us (my wife would skip church that day) due to infertility issues.  I wrote a talk for all the other reasons it is a difficult day for many, besides the reasons mentioned above.   I have never received as much positive feedback for a talk as I did this one.  If you are interested:

 

 

When I wrote this talk, Penny Lane was not a reality - but she is now   

😍 What an inspiring talk pogi! I'm so happy for Oliver and Penny that they have parents like you and Emily!

Edited March 29, 2023 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

I should add a lot of women would be dismissive of their own feelings, saying this is how they felt about Mother’s Day, their gut response, but they knew their husbands value them so they did not see reality as that way and they might feel guilt even they weren’t gushing in gratitude (ah, those were the days 🤮 ) about feeling that way though others did feel there was quite a bit of reality in those feelings and hearing the stories, they had a right to.

There was one awful case when I was a teen where they had the whole family (large one, the youngest child was my age, all very active and devout) speak on Mother’s Day and while they all extolled mothers in general, they pretty much only personalized it by making jokes about their own mother/wife who was the type who was slowly killing herself to serve her family, very dismissive of her as a person. It was very sad. 

Oh how awful, and how the mother must have felt.   The closest I have to this is a talk many years ago by a young woman speaking about her mom and saying she had the "mean" mom. But turns out she mean't just really strict and that she's grateful now that her mother was so strict and how it helped her eventually.