If Today Was Your Last.......

[Kenngo1969]

11 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I remember a long time a go reading that he got this from freemasonry.

 

Well, yes, there are "steps," or degrees, as one progresses in Freemasonry, and there is no question that Joseph Smith's thought was influenced by Freemasonry.  Whether any of Brother Joseph's thoughts on progression in the afterlife were influenced by his thoughts on Freemasonry, however, is, as far as I am aware, a rather more open question.  Others' mileage may vary, and, while there are some things that we (even with our finite minds and perspectives) can know about the afterlife, there are many, many others that remain open questions, the answers to which I will be content to learn when I get there.

Edited March 4 by Kenngo1969

[MustardSeed]

Peppermint , how are you doing since your father died?  I wonder what I will want in my dying days.  Would I prefer to go quickly and without warning? Would I want gathering? What would I want to communicate to my children and granddaughter?  
 

 

[Peacefully]

5 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

🙄

Perfect response. I think the term that might fit, but not quite, is “humble bragging”. 

Edited March 4 by Peacefully

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I remember a long time a go reading that he got this from freemasonry.

 

It is certainly possible, but ladder symbolism related to heaven and covenants is biblical so there is no real need. 

From a nonLDS POV:
 

Quote

Alone and on the run, Jacob decided to camp out under the stars, with nothing but a rock for a pillow (Genesis 28:11). Talk about a bad night’s sleep, but then the story takes a momentous turn.

Scripture says, “he (Jacob) had a dream, and behold, a ladder was set on the earth with its top reaching to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it” (Genesis 28:12).

This is the visual Jacob sees in the dream. But what does it mean?

The ladder represents the connection between God and man. It demonstrates that the God who created the universe desires an intimate relationship with his creation, especially mankind, and most importantly, that he is the one who initiates that connection, conversation, and relationship.

Unlike the Tower of Babel story, in which man tried to build a tower to connect with the divine (Genesis 11:1-9), God proves that this connection can only be made by his power and grace. Any connection to God must begin with him.

God then speaks to Jacob in the dream, saying:

“I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants. Your descendants will also be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you” (Genesis 28:13-15).

Here, God reaffirms the covenant of Abraham with Jacob, Abraham’s grandson, promising that the same blessings and promises he gave to Abraham would be fulfilled and carried on through Jacob, who God would later rename “Israel” (Genesis 32:28). Jacob, later renamed Israel, would go on to marry and father 12 sons who would become the 12 tribes of Israel.

From this lineage, the nation of Israel, God’s chosen people, would be born, and out of the line of Jacob would come the promised Messiah, Jesus Christ, God’s own son (Matthew 1:1-17).

 

Also

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob's_Ladder

You might be interested in this, Tacenda, about the relationship between the temple and Freemasonry. 
 

https://www.fromthedesk.org/freemasonry-temple-endowment-jeff-bradshaw/amp/

[Calm]

9 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I only share what I know. I'm genuinely sorry that offends you. Are you equally offended by the personal witnesses of God's power and goodness in the Gospels?

He never said he was offended. He made an observation, a good one Imo, that some will wonder why they don’t get the same types of experiences you do or at least as consistently as you do. You have pointed out in the past some of the reasons iirc, such as not following the Handbook closely in how to set up leadership among the young men. I thought that was a helpful instruction by you. You don’t mention the how you get there as much as you used to that I remember, so it may be helpful to go back to that more depending on your intent with your posts. It also might be helpful to include more of the valleys in your stories to help show how the crests can fit in others’ lives who struggle to relate to the crest experiences. 
 

I don’t have an issue with your choices of presentation because I see different people respond to different styles and there is no one size fits all. I find your stories refreshing (I mean that in a rather literal way, not in the sense that they are different from others, a palate cleanser, more in the sense of rejuvenating, but not quite that).  But it also might be useful in being a witness to use different styles to reach more. 
 

It is not helpful though to read offense where there is none. 

Edited March 4 by Calm

[Calm]

Tacenda, perhaps this is the Freemason reference you heard that connects to Joseph’s ladder quote. 

Quote

Note also that the important Masonic symbols of ascent in the first two degrees — “Jacob’s Theological Ladder in the First Degree, the Winding Stair which one ascends to obtain a reward in the Second Degree”²¹² — are not mentioned in the temple endowment.

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/an-important-new-study-of-freemasonry-and-the-latter-day-saints-whats-good-whats-questionable-and-whats-missing-in-method-infinite/
 

But since it refers to Jacob’s ladder, unless there is something more specific (which there may be, but not spending time now looking for it), seems like the Bible and likely sermons he or his family heard about Jacob’s ladder are sufficient for being part of Joseph’s inspiration for his choice of language to describe the afterlife.

The above review might also interest you in pointing out similarities and differences. 

Edited March 4 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

20 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I am thoroughly perplexed by your response to my post. Where did I mention or even imply 'perfection'? My former housemate relied on a combination of meth, marijuana, and alcohol to self-medicate before he met the missionaries, and he carried the effects of those addictions with him post-conversion. He'd be equally perplexed by your dismissal of both him and his experience as somehow perfect.

Christ is the crests.

I only share what I know. I'm genuinely sorry that offends you. Are you equally offended by the personal witnesses of God's power and goodness in the Gospels?

Someone else on this board also recently told me not to talk about my spiritual experiences because they seemed too perfect, and others would be jealous.

I am still dumbfounded by that logic.

So if I had no testimony at all, that would help convert others then right?

🤔🙄

Just think how fast we could convert the world if NOBODY had testimony experiences!!   

Very strange way of seeing things.

Jesus should have never done miracles, so that the whole world could follow him as a regular guy, I guess.  If that didn't show he was God, what would?? 

🤯🤐🙄

 

(Sarcasm)

[Tacenda]

18 hours ago, Calm said:

Tacenda, perhaps this is the Freemason reference you heard that connects to Joseph’s ladder quote. 

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/an-important-new-study-of-freemasonry-and-the-latter-day-saints-whats-good-whats-questionable-and-whats-missing-in-method-infinite/
 

But since it refers to Jacob’s ladder, unless there is something more specific (which there may be, but not spending time now looking for it), seems like the Bible and likely sermons he or his family heard about Jacob’s ladder are sufficient for being part of Joseph’s inspiration for his choice of language to describe the afterlife.

The above review might also interest you in pointing out similarities and differences. 

Thanks for your input Calm!

[Stargazer]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:49 PM, pogi said:

In response to the all too oft misinterpreted and misused passage of scripture to beat ourselves up over (2 Nephi 25:23, which states that we are "saved by grace after all we can do"), President (at the time) Uchtdorf, asks "have any of us done all that we can do?"

There is always more that we could do. Many Latter-day Saints fall victim to toxic perfectionism in the quest of "all that we can do".  I think the purpose of that passage was to turn us to Christ's grace because we all fall-short.  

Maybe you don't suffer from perfectionism, but the feeling of not being enough can be a sore experience and you deserve a hefty dose of self-grace. 

Here are some thoughts I shared in a recent sacrament talk that touches on this subject if you are interested:

 

I recommend that those who enjoyed the video "The Music of the Gospel" go to the video on YouTube and read the comments to the video.

[pogi]

57 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I recommend that those who enjoyed the video "The Music of the Gospel" go to the video on YouTube and read the comments to the video.

It's cool to see so many Native Americans commenting about it.  The video seems to resonate (to use a musical term) with so many people.