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Did Joseph Smith teach Adam-God?


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10 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

What indication is there that the story of Adam and Eve is man made and not real? It’s portrayed as real in all 4 standard works and the church has always maintained and taught that Adam and Eve literally existed and that they lived in a real garden and fell by partaking of the fruit. 

Are aspects of the story symbolic? Sure, but it’s not man made. 

The church allows people to hold private opinions that conflict with the scriptures and church teachings as long as they don’t publicly teach them, but this doesn’t mean that the church doesn’t consider it to be problem if people reject the teachings of the church.

Here is a quote from Fair I thought interesting, and in my reading of it, we have a choice whether to believe it's more symbolic with scientific evidence. 

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_science/Did_Adam_and_Eve_really_exist

3: There is always a host of doctrinal concerns

These inevitably occur because of the previous two issues. As a text, Genesis has to be read and interpreted in some way - and there are lots of ways it can be. Some of those interpretations conflict with knowledge obtained from other sources - like scientific knowledge. One of the great debates of the past (and to some extent even the present) is how we place authority in these sources of information (a process we call epistemology). In one view, we try to understand the time period of Genesis literally, and the age of the earth then as being finite (a mere few thousand years) leading to a position known as Young Earth Creationism. This is a popular view among many Christians (and within the Church). On the other hand there are those who recognize that the earth seems to be very old, complete with a long fossil record of life. If this information is weighted accordingly, then the age of the earth is very great, and likewise, the Genesis account needs to be interpreted as being less literal in the sense that it does not intend to provide the age of the earth in a strictly literal sense. These doctrinal issues are often much larger debates that engage the text of Genesis to their own ends - issues like evolution, the age of the earth, the fall of man, the question of death before the fall, and so on.

 

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16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Here is a quote from Fair I thought interesting, and in my reading of it, we have a choice whether to believe it's more symbolic with scientific evidence. 

You always have a choice to believe or disbelieve whatever you want to. The opinions of Fair also do not constitute the position of the church, let alone what God thinks about the subject. 

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On 2/27/2023 at 9:10 PM, Grug the Neanderthal said:

It wasn't until the 5th Century A.D. that the Bible as we know it was compiled and accepted as canon. The Torah is much older than this. Genesis was written thousands of years before the Bible was compiled. 

Sorry for the delay in getting back.

I am trying to get some references from you that back up your assertions of how far back stories of Adam and Eve actually go. This isn't an official CFR but I am interested in information other than "it's in the Torah or Genesis". My understanding of the Pentateuch is our earliest versions are from about 800 b.c. to about 1000 b.c.. What information do we have about Adam & Eve previous to that?

 

Thanks

 

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15 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

You always have a choice to believe or disbelieve whatever you want to. The opinions of Fair also do not constitute the position of the church, let alone what God thinks about the subject. 

Where do you believe one finds the official doctrine of the LDS church?

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11 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Sorry for the delay in getting back.

I am trying to get some references from you that back up your assertions of how far back stories of Adam and Eve actually go. This isn't an official CFR but I am interested in information other than "it's in the Torah or Genesis". My understanding of the Pentateuch is our earliest versions are from about 800 b.c. to about 1000 b.c.. What information do we have about Adam & Eve previous to that?

 

Thanks

 

Considering that the Pentateuch dates back to over a thousand years before the Bible as we know it was compiled and canonized, I think my assertion has already been backed up. 

I’m not an expert on ancient texts, but I know that the story of Adam is mentioned in myths in other ancient texts which are older than this.

For example this is from ancient Mesopotamia:

viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&ar

 

 

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2 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:
10 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Where do you believe one finds the official doctrine of the LDS church?

The teachings of the prophets, seers, and revelators and official church publications. 

At all times and at all places? Everything taught by someone who has been sustained as a prophet, seer, and revelator is official doctrine of the LDS church?

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3 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

At all times and at all places? Everything taught by someone who has been sustained as a prophet, seer, and revelator is official doctrine of the LDS church?

It has been said that trying to determine what official doctrine is in the Mormon church is like trying to nail Jello to a wall.

 

Good luck here.

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22 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

At all times and at all places? Everything taught by someone who has been sustained as a prophet, seer, and revelator is official doctrine of the LDS church?

I think this is starting to drift off into the weeds. The point is that FAIR has a disclaimer right on their website that their views aren’t official church doctrine. Official church doctrine comes from the prophets, seers, and revelators and official church publications. 

Edited by Grug the Neanderthal
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On 2/27/2023 at 8:31 PM, Grug the Neanderthal said:

These verses are talking about the Spiritual Creation of the human family of Adam and Eve.

Back on February 17, you asked Who else but God has dominion over every living creature?

Is Genesis 1:26-28 speaking of the spiritual creation or the physical creation? And how could they have
dominion when they were not Gods?  Or do you hold to the belief that Adam and Eve were Gods?

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6 hours ago, marineland said:

Back on February 17, you asked Who else but God has dominion over every living creature?

Is Genesis 1:26-28 speaking of the spiritual creation or the physical creation? And how could they have
dominion when they were not Gods?  Or do you hold to the belief that Adam and Eve were Gods?

Brigham Young taught that Adam and Eve were Gods and this thread is about looking at evidence that Joseph Smith may have believed and taught this, too. 

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1 hour ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Is there any one stopping you from believing Adam-God? Does anyone at church care?

Yes i do care. Adam whas just not equal with our lord Jesus Christ (if Adam really exicted anyway). Jesus Christ is above us all (exept God) 

So i don't understand Neanderthal anyway and why he is so bussy with this matter. He should focus himself on other things if you ask me. 

 

Edited by Dario_M
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48 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Yes i do care. Adam whas just not equal with our lord Jesus Christ (if Adam really exicted anyway). Jesus Christ is above us all (exept God) 

I know you care about the truth or falsity of Adam-God. Do you care what Grug believes?

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1 hour ago, Hamilton Porter said:

I know you care about the truth or falsity of Adam-God. Do you care what Grug believes?

Yes. And it suprises me how Neanderthaler get's it togheter to insult our lord Jesus Christ so much with his strange idea. And that Adam apparently stands above Jesus Christ.

What comes next? 🤦‍♂️

Edited by Dario_M
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4 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Is there any one stopping you from believing Adam-God? Does anyone at church care?

The church doesn’t stop anyone from having private beliefs that they don’t publicly express, but I believe that many in the church would care if someone tried to openly teach that Adam-God was true.

I’m sure that a cease and desist order would be given from local leadership and this would be followed up with a disciplinary trial if one didn’t comply. Teaching something that goes against what the current brethren teach, after being "corrected," is considered apostasy and subject to church discipline. 

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12 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

it suprises me how Neanderthaler get's it togheter to insult our lord Jesus Christ so much with his strange idea. And that Adam apparently stands above Jesus Christ.

How does believing that Adam is our Heavenly Father and the Father of Jesus Christ and therefore higher in authority than he is "insult our Lord Jesus Christ so much?"

Jesus said, "my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

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6 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Huh? 

And what’s with the downvotes all of a sudden? Not cool. 

You showed me some scipture that said: "Jesus said, "my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)" 

Why can it not be so that Jesus Christ whas talking about his heavenly father GOD?? And where did you pulled that scripture John 14:28 From anyway?  Is that from the Book of Mormon? 

Edited by Dario_M
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1 minute ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Yes, that’s who he was talking about. According to the Adam-God doctrine "his Heavenly Father GOD” is Adam. That’s it. 

The scripture is from the NT.

Adam is now God? I don't buy this sorry.

To bad that that scripture is not in the Book of Mormon. Otherwise i would show this to my Missionaris. 

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10 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

I’m sure that a cease and desist order would be given from local leadership and this would be followed up with a disciplinary trial if one didn’t comply. Teaching something that goes against what the current brethren teach, after being "corrected," is considered apostasy and subject to church discipline. 

If you said it on Facebook I bet nothing would happen.

You can believe God's a panda for all I care.

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