Hamilton Porter Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 2 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: (This line was removed in 2019) Probably because people made a big fuss over it. So do you believe in Adam-God? If not, why do you care? It can be found in the Quran too. You'll see Quranic commentators dance around it. Link to comment
Hamilton Porter Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: Isn’t this a time honored tradition for reinterpreting scripture? Just look what Christians did to find Jesus in the Old Testament. Yes, but that's irrelevant to whether Joseph Smith taught it or not. 1 Link to comment
Grug the Neanderthal Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said: So do you believe in Adam-God? I haven’t fully made up my mind on Adam-God, but I lean towards it being true or mostly true. I think it’s a logical doctrine that fits very well with other teachings on plurality of the Gods and eternal progression. 43 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said: If not, why do you care? I think the issue of prophets, seers, and revelators contradicting each other about the identity of God is something many people care about, regardless of where they fall on the Adam-God belief spectrum. 43 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said: It can be found in the Quran too. Yes, and other ancient texts. I think there’s a lot of evidence for there being truth to Adam-God. Edited February 18 by Grug the Neanderthal 1 Link to comment
Hamilton Porter Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 20 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: 1 hour ago, Hamilton Porter said: So do you believe in Adam-God? I haven’t fully made up my mind on Adam-God, but I lean towards it being true or mostly true. Ok keep going. Link to comment
2BizE Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I do believe Joseph started this theory and it was augmented by BY. We are now instructed in the temple that the endowment is symbolic, which suggests that Adam and Eve are also symbolic. Link to comment
Calm Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 20 minutes ago, 2BizE said: I do believe Joseph started this theory and it was augmented by BY. We are now instructed in the temple that the endowment is symbolic, which suggests that Adam and Eve are also symbolic. The president of the US is symbolic of the country. 1 Link to comment
Grug the Neanderthal Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 24 minutes ago, 2BizE said: We are now instructed in the temple that the endowment is symbolic, which suggests that Adam and Eve are also symbolic. In what way are Adam and Eve symbolic in your opinion? Link to comment
2BizE Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: In what way are Adam and Eve symbolic in your opinion? I believe Adam and Eve are used to tell a story of our human origin. Adam and Eve are symbolic of our first parents, similar to how Noah and the Arc and the Garden of Eden are symbolic stories or parables, but did not really happen. Link to comment
Grug the Neanderthal Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 39 minutes ago, 2BizE said: I believe Adam and Eve are used to tell a story of our human origin. Adam and Eve are symbolic of our first parents, similar to how Noah and the Arc and the Garden of Eden are symbolic stories or parables, but did not really happen. Since you believe that Adam and Eve weren't real and are just symbolic of our first parents, who do you think our first parents were? Link to comment
SeekingUnderstanding Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 8 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said: Yes, but that's irrelevant to whether Joseph Smith taught it or not. Well sure. It’s more of a beam and moat situation. Link to comment
SeekingUnderstanding Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 3 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: Since you believe that Adam and Eve weren't real and are just symbolic of our first parents, who do you think our first parents were? No such thing. There is an unbroken chain of parent and offspring stretching back billions of years. Link to comment
Grug the Neanderthal Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 21 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: There is an unbroken chain of parent and offspring stretching back billions of years. In the eternities yes, on this earth no. Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 5 hours ago, 2BizE said: I believe Adam and Eve are used to tell a story of our human origin. Adam and Eve are symbolic of our first parents, similar to how Noah and the Arc and the Garden of Eden are symbolic stories or parables, but did not really happen. Adam, Eve, Noah are actual people, not archetypes. However their stories contain both history and symbolism. 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 11 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Adam, Eve, Noah are actual people, not archetypes. Why not both? 2 Link to comment
carbon dioxide Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) On 2/17/2023 at 10:25 AM, JLHPROF said: I am of the opinion that Joseph didn't teach Adam God on the record ever. I'm also of the opinion that if he did have that belief and understanding that he came to it extremely late in his life, around the time he came to understand the King Follett doctrines. Both Brigham and Eliza claimed they learned it from him but it appears in no discourse. His teachings on Adam do seem to progress but there is no record of a teaching where Adam was either Heavenly Father or the father of Jesus. At least no written record. I agree at least in how Brigham Young explains it which is very confusing and contradictory. I approach the issue with the clear understanding that the Father, Son, and Michael or Adam are completely different and distinct persons and they hold different titles and have different roles at various different times. Once I did that and studied it out, most of it makes sense to me now. One thing that is apparent to me is God the Father really takes a hands off approach to almost everything that goes on this world. Outside of introducing or bearing witness of his Son, he stays out of pretty much of everything. Almost everything that goes on this planet is handled by Jesus and Michael and really Michael is doing almost all the day to day work. That should not be a problem when one understands both the Father and Son have TRILLIONS of worlds to attend to. I think the Father runs the universe like Walmart runs its business. The Father and Son run the entire universe of trillions of worlds while each world has a local "God" if you will who runs the day to day operations of that respective world just as Walmart has a local store manager who runs a particular store. Adam was made lord over this world and he is the one who sends angels to administer to us. Adam directly sent Moroni to Joseph Smith, not the Father or Son. Prayers are mainly answered not by the Father or Son but by Michael or Adam and it will remain that way until Adam or Michael is released from this calling by the Father and Son at Adam-ondi-Ahman when all the rights are transferred to the Son. The Second Coming can't happen until this event occurs. Just as a bishop has to be released before a new bishop can be placed in the position of a ward, same apparently with this. Edited February 25 by carbon dioxide 1 Link to comment
Jaydes Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I find it extremely unlikely, and these quotes unconvincing. I believe AGD was just another blasphemous heresy against God that strayed from Smith's vision, that was invented by Heber Kimball and Brigham Young. (As with such things as polygamy, blood atonement, the endowment of that time, etc) 1 Link to comment
Dario_M Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) Interesting topic. I still think that Jesus Christ is our farther above the others though. Above Adam. Except God offcourse ✝️. But Adam.... i don't think so. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter who is above who Jesus or Adam. Our heavanly farther (God) is the one who stands above everything and everyone. God who has made us all. He has made everything and everyone (even Lucifer how difficult that may be to believe for some) He is the highest and stands above us all folks. So...... that is all that matters according to me actually. God bless. 🙏 Edited February 25 by Dario_M Link to comment
Dario_M Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Jaydes said: I find it extremely unlikely, and these quotes unconvincing. I believe AGD was just another blasphemous heresy against God that strayed from Smith's vision, that was invented by Heber Kimball and Brigham Young. (As with such things as polygamy, blood atonement, the endowment of that time, etc) Well...the LDS church doesn't support polygamy anymore if you don't mind.. That whas 200 years ago or so?? Not so relevant anymore. Edited February 25 by Dario_M Link to comment
Grug the Neanderthal Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 7 hours ago, Jaydes said: I find it extremely unlikely, and these quotes unconvincing. Why do you find it "extremely unlikely" that Joseph Smith taught Adam-God? 6 hours ago, Dario_M said: I believe AGD was just another blasphemous heresy against God In what way is AGD a "blasphemous heresy against God?" 7 hours ago, Jaydes said: As with such things as polygamy, blood atonement, the endowment of that time, etc How are polygamy, blood atonement, and the endowment blasphemous heresies against God? Link to comment
Grug the Neanderthal Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 14 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: I agree at least in how Brigham Young explains it which is very confusing and contradictory. I approach the issue with the clear understanding that the Father, Son, and Michael or Adam are completely different and distinct persons and they hold different titles and have different roles at various different times. Once I did that and studied it out, most of it makes sense to me now. One thing that is apparent to me is God the Father really takes a hands off approach to almost everything that goes on this world. Outside of introducing or bearing witness of his Son, he stays out of pretty much of everything. Almost everything that goes on this planet is handled by Jesus and Michael and really Michael is doing almost all the day to day work. That should not be a problem when one understands both the Father and Son have TRILLIONS of worlds to attend to. I think the Father runs the universe like Walmart runs its business. The Father and Son run the entire universe of trillions of worlds while each world has a local "God" if you will who runs the day to day operations of that respective world just as Walmart has a local store manager who runs a particular store. Adam was made lord over this world and he is the one who sends angels to administer to us. Adam directly sent Moroni to Joseph Smith, not the Father or Son. Prayers are mainly answered not by the Father or Son but by Michael or Adam and it will remain that way until Adam or Michael is released from this calling by the Father and Son at Adam-ondi-Ahman when all the rights are transferred to the Son. The Second Coming can't happen until this event occurs. Just as a bishop has to be released before a new bishop can be placed in the position of a ward, same apparently with this. Interesting theory. When you say "God the Father" are you referring to the individual who Jesus referred to as his Father and when you say "Son" are you referring to Jesus Christ? Or are using these as titles that can refer to a number of Gods throughout the eternities? Link to comment
Dario_M Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: In what way is AGD a "blasphemous heresy against God?" It doesn't all i find. That is not how i think about this matter. But uhm... have i really wrote this in your topic??? 🎭 I can't remember that. Link to comment
blackstrap Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 If Adam wasn't before, I suspect he is now. Mind you, is there a " before " in Celestial Times .? 2 Link to comment
Grug the Neanderthal Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, blackstrap said: If Adam wasn't before, I suspect he is now. I think based on the quotes by Joseph Smith, Adam was at the very least one of the Gods of the creation from Abraham's record. But if he wasn’t the God of this earth, I don’t think he is now. 1 hour ago, blackstrap said: Mind you, is there a " before " in Celestial Times .? Good question. The answer is probably yes and no, but mostly yes. Otherwise there would be no such things as eternal progression and we would never be able to progress to be where our Heavenly Father is now. Link to comment
Dario_M Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I hope we are not talking about the Adam from Adam&Eve. Because if that is the case i don't even believe that Adam had exist at all I don't believe in the concept Adam&Eve and the whole storie that goes around that. I believe that sin has always been there and that God is the one that have made us. Not Adam&Eve. Link to comment
Dario_M Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) Jesus Christ is just above us all. Otherwise God would have send Adam to do the job here on earth 2023 years ago. But God didn't send Adam. He send Jesus Christ to do all the work here on eart, plus that horible offer at the end.✝️ of jesus life on eart. So Jesus must be the one that is all above us all. And God is above everyone, also Jesus Christ. How simple can it be right? Amen. ✝️ Edited February 26 by Dario_M Link to comment
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