Missionaries' "Nope" Response to Lesbian Doormat - An Afterthought

[smac97]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

That's how I remember reading it. 

I'm sure Dario added the qualifier as soon as he realized what he had written; I've done similar things in the past and had to go back and edit to be more fair and to match what I meant but what didn't come out in the words I typed. 

But yeah, when I read it right after it was posted, I was annoyed because obviously not all straight people are that way.  If I read it correctly and it was edited, I'm glad that he came back and changed it.

Whatever he said initially, I think his edit is fine. 

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I have never done that.

I haven't done that, either.

I hold your opinion in such low regard that I lend it no probative meaning or weight.

Again, you essentially never have anything thoughtful or substantive to contribute.  Just glib insults, cheapshots, and attempts to provoke and offend.   

-Smac

I disrespectfully disagree. Especially the last part. My insults are only rarely glib.

[Dario_M]

11 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I’m not surprised because I’ve read too many of SMAC’s posts on gay issues. And sarcasm is my go to coping mechanism. Something I should work on for sure. 

Yeah because it looks a bit as if you are making me a fool out if this discusion.🎭😞 I am sorry if i am wrong.  

[Dario_M]

12 hours ago, california boy said:

Stay completely away from all of these reparative therapy groups. Northstar is just the latest version of Evergreen, another LDS reparative therapy group that absolutely has been debunked.  I spent time in Evergreen when I came out, mostly because my family wanted me to.  I even flew down to Los Angeles regularly to see David Matheson for a period of time to go through his "therapy"sessions.  I went to him because he was actually the one who wrote the manual for the Church's Evergreen program.  He sat directly across from me swearing how he used to be gay but is now happily married and is no longer gay.  He promised me the same results.  Yeah, it is all a bunch of crap and has been completely debunked.  

 

A similar group, Exodus International was geared to sucking in other Christians into believing they could change from being gay to being straight.  After 38 years of defrauding and preying on gay men, Alan Chambers, president of Exodus International closed down the organization.  

 

 

Dario, I am not telling you how to live your life, or what the best path for you is.  But I am telling you loud and clear, before you embark upon any of these "change the gays" type organizations, investigate for yourself before you become involved.

I would also say to Bernard, you better be very sure when you make such a recommendation that what you are recommending is something that you really know what you are recommending.  Just because it is under the banner of the Church (as was Evergreen) does not mean in any way that it is not just a bunch of crap that can actually be very destructive to someone who is gay.

That is so typicaly hypocriet. 🤣 That David first swears to you and other gay males that he has transformt into a staight guy. And tell you guys that you need to do the same thing. And years later bom!!!💥 He admits that he is actually still gay though and have lied to everyone plus his wife. And on the moment also date man. 🔥

How. Can this be right?? He has lied to everyone so David has broken an commitment as well. Because you may not lie. 

Yes and in my case. I also break the law of chastity from time to time. I Admit that. (Yesterday i had sex💥💥💥. With another man!!! 💥Bam!💥 Broken the law of chastity again💥💥 Boom! boom! 

And you know what....i don't feel any guilt of it. Not even a bit. Especially now after i have read about Evergreen and what a bunch of lies those man tell you there. I actually think i am not doing anything wrong. At least i am a lot more honest about myself. And i do what i want. But even though i do what i want i find that i still desirve a place in the LDS church. 

Amen. 

 

So @Raingirl come allong. Here is another post of me you may downvote.⬇️ Thank you. 

Edited February 4 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

11 hours ago, california boy said:

Dario, I am not telling you how to live your life, or what the best path for you is.  But I am telling you loud and clear, before you embark upon any of these "change the gays" type organizations, investigate for yourself before you become involved.

 

Oh don't worrie. There is no single hair on my head that thinks about going to those places. Never ever in my life.

And a mixed marriage i also don't wanna go for. Oh my oh my...please no. Only the idea of it. 🥴🤥

Edited February 4 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

This. Be careful Dario. While Northstar is not a conversion program itself last I heard they were still sponsored by conversion groups.

Checking their website their official position has shifted to “no position” which I would guess means they can still be sponsored by ‘conversion therapy’ groups.

Thank you for warning me. 🫂 That is so thoughtfull of you. Thank you so much.  But don't worry. I will not go to those places ever in my life. I don't think i need to change. Heck the thing is can't even change even if i wanted to. I can't change that. Nobody can. Yeah God maybe but he clearly also doesn't wanna change me as well otherwise he would have done that allready years ago. 🎭

Edited February 4 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Thank you for warning me. 🫂 That is so thoughtfull of you. Thank you so much.  But don't worry. I will not go to those places ever in my life. I don't think i need to change. Heck the thing is can't even change even if i wanted to. I can't change that. Nobody can. Yeah God maybe but he clearly also doesn't wanna change me as well otherwise he would have done that allready years ago. 🎭

I wouldn't say that it can never change. Sexuality can be fluid and changes. I just don't think anyone knows how to change it deliberately and for most it is pretty fixed. Generally the shift is from straight or gay to some flavor of bi or from bi to straight or gay. Still, it is not common and I have never heard of anyone deliberately shifting it. A lot of bisexual people also deal with something most of us call the bi-cycle where sexuality goes through swings where men are more attractive and then women and then back again. This tends to calm with time but no one is sure why and it doesn't always calm. One theory is that accepting your sexuality calms it and there is anecdotal evidence that backs it up but it is very hard to test and it probably doesn't work for everyone anyways. I have often wondered about people who end up in conversion therapy while dealing with that:

"I'm cured!"
"Nope, back to gay."
"CURED!!!!! Please stick!"
"Nope, never mind."
"Cured but it probably won't last."
"It didn't."

[Dario_M]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I wouldn't say that it can never change. Sexuality can be fluid and changes. I just don't think anyone knows how to change it deliberately and for most it is pretty fixed. Generally the shift is from straight or gay to some flavor of bi or from bi to straight or gay. Still, it is not common and I have never heard of anyone deliberately shifting it. A lot of bisexual people also deal with something most of us call the bi-cycle where sexuality goes through swings where men are more attractive and then women and then back again. This tends to calm with time but no one is sure why and it doesn't always calm. One theory is that accepting your sexuality calms it and there is anecdotal evidence that backs it up but it is very hard to test and it probably doesn't work for everyone anyways. I have often wondered about people who end up in conversion therapy while dealing with that:

"I'm cured!"
"Nope, back to gay."
"CURED!!!!! Please stick!"
"Nope, never mind."
"Cured but it probably won't last."
"It didn't."

Yes yes. 🤣

The only thing that meight change your sexuality is a complex brain surgery. Because clearly....this is a problem in the brain. And also hormonal problems as well. 

So maybey with the right brain surgery 🧠 and the right hormon meds it can be posible i believe. But surgeons are not even that far with what is posible in the medical field. And with all the risk that comes allong with that i don't tink any surgeon would burn their hands on that. And it is also not ethnic at all. 

And why would i wanna go for all of that if it really did exist? (wich luckely it doesn't) So much effort and taking so much risks to change myself. Is that it all worth it? I say: "No"

And you can expect that the persons character will also change.

Being gay is not only my sexual preference it is also a part of my character. If i really would transform into a straight man it will change my character as well. 

Edited February 4 by Dario_M

[SeekingUnderstanding]

5 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Yeah because it looks a bit as if you are making me a fool out if this discusion.🎭😞 I am sorry if i am wrong.  

Well I’m this particular case, my sarcasm is not directed at you and I had no intent to make you a fool. 

[Dario_M]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Well I’m this particular case, my sarcasm is not directed at you and I had no intent to make you a fool. 

Okay then it is good. My mistake then. 🥰

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:42 PM, The Nehor said:

Being a lesbian is the moral equivalent of being a chronic criminal who espouses violence towards women and humanity in general?

I am sure lesbians are flattered by this comparison.

No matter how many times it is pointed out that posters here keep doing this kind of comparison they just can't stop. It is like an addiction or something.

Heh.  When you see a post specifically calling out unrighteous judgments and asking people to stop doing it, but you got a beef with the poster, so you unrighteously assume that the poster is unrighteously assuming, and end up looking the fool.

This is almost a meme.

[california boy]

7 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Oh don't worrie. There is no single hair on my head that thinks about going to those places. Never ever in my life.

And a mixed marriage i also don't wanna go for. Oh my oh my...please no. Only the idea of it. 🥴🤥

I know exactly how you feel.  I felt more guilty and it felt more immoral having sex with my wife than I do with my partner.  With him it feels honest, with love and devotion. With my wife it felt like a fraud and the only reason for being married was because Church leaders promised me in the name of God that if I did, I would become straight.  I learned not to trust what Church leaders claim came from God, and find my own relationship with Him.  My life is a life of joy, happiness and love, something I never experienced while trying to do what the Church demanded.

I wish you the best of luck in finding the path that is best for you back to God.

Edited February 4 by california boy

[Dario_M]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I know exactly how you feel.  I felt more guilty and it felt more immoral having sex with my wife than I do with my partner.

You know...I am allready amazed that you even could do that.

I don't think i even would be able to have sex with a female. I will fail so miserable that she will allready noitice that i am gay immediately. 

1 hour ago, california boy said:

 

 With him it feels honest, with love and devotion. With my wife it felt like a fraud and the only reason for being married was because Church leaders promised me in the name of God that if I did, I would become straight.  I learned not to trust what Church leaders claim came from God, and find my own relationship with Him.  My life is a life of joy, happiness and love, something I never experienced while trying to do what the Church demanded.

Yeah. I have also decided that i am not going to do everything that this church wants me to do. 

Tomorrow you will find me in church though. 😉 And the reason why? Because i know that there are also nice people in the LDS church. But also because i love going to church. I love the sacrament. And i try to have some contact with God. Because i really miss that. I miss God in my life. 😓😞😔 

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I wish you the best of luck in finding the path that is best for you back to God.

Thank you really much dear Boy from the far west. 🥰👍

Edited February 4 by Dario_M

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, Dario_M said:

That is so typicaly hypocriet. 🤣 That David first swears to you and other gay males that he has transformt into a staight guy. And tell you guys that you need to do the same thing. And years later bom!!!💥 He admits that he is actually still gay though and have lied to everyone plus his wife. And on the moment also date man. 🔥

How. Can this be right?? He has lied to everyone so David has broken an commitment as well. Because you may not lie. 

Yes and in my case. I also break the law of chastity from time to time. I Admit that. (Yesterday i had sex💥💥💥. With another man!!! 💥Bam!💥 Broken the law of chastity again💥💥 Boom! boom! 

And you know what....i don't feel any guilt of it. Not even a bit. Especially now after i have read about Evergreen and what a bunch of lies those man tell you there. I actually think i am not doing anything wrong. At least i am a lot more honest about myself. And i do what i want. But even though i do what i want i find that i still desirve a place in the LDS church. 

Amen. 

 

So @Raingirl come allong. Here is another post of me you may downvote.⬇️ Thank you. 

Maybe it's like the US army use to do when they say, "Don't ask, don't tell". About being gay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell

[Dario_M]

39 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Maybe it's like the US army use to do when they say, "Don't ask, don't tell". About being gay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell

Yeah but come on. I am not in the army here. I am in the LDS community. It should be save for me to tell other members of the church that i am gay. It shouldn't be a problem you know. 🥀 

Edited February 4 by Dario_M

[Raingirl]

21 hours ago, smac97 said:

Then you were stating a truism, such that my retraction and apology remain appropriate.

Thank you for your clarification.  I hope you accept mine.

Thanks,

-Smac

He edited his original post. It did not originally contain the word “some”.  

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Dario_M said:

Yeah but come on. I am not in the army here. I am in the LDS community. It should be save for me to tell other members of the church that i am gay. It shouldn't be a problem you know. 🥀 

I know, I was just trying to be funny, not to be taken serious. Sorry I didn't make my post reflect that. 

[Dario_M]

1 minute ago, Raingirl said:

He edited his original post. It did not originally contain the word “some”.  

Yes it did. Who do you think you are actually? I said SOME straight people. 

 But you know what. It doesn't really matter. The end result is what matters. That is important. 

[Dario_M]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I know, I was just trying to be funny, not to be taken serious. Sorry I didn't make my post reflect that. 

Uhm.. i laught a bit. Don't worrie. 🤣

[Calm]

10 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Yes it did. Who do you think you are actually? I said SOME straight people. 

 But you know what. It doesn't really matter. The end result is what matters. That is important. 

I am speaking up not to condemn you or anyone else, Dario, but to hopefully prevent more misunderstandings because I believe this is an honest mistake similar to one I make a lot.  My memory is that it did not say “some” right at the beginning because I really debated myself about reporting it and there would be no reason to report “some straight people” because that is accurate in my experience.

I did not report Dario though because it didn’t match what he had said at other times, so it didn’t make much sense to me for Dario to have said that. I assumed he had accidentally left “some” out (I leave out nots all the time and end up saying the opposite of what I mean), so it appeared to me it was likely a typo and my guess now is that is why Dario remembers it as “some straight people” because that is what he meant to write as opposed to what he wrote.

I also thought when I first read it and was debating myself about reporting it, if it wasn’t a typo then it was likely Dario  for a moment was reliving a painful experience and therefore said something in an absolute way where he wouldn’t usually say it, which is why I didn’t do what I usually do with problematic typos and ask for clarification.  I feel bad I didn’t now because this misunderstanding wouldn’t have happened.

Given Dario went in and clarified what he meant and now remembers it as “some”, it clearly appears to me it was a typo and my gut response that it didn’t sound like him was right.

I so agree the end result is important and that is why I am speaking up.  I don’t believe raingirl would downvote the end result nor would she have downvoted “some straight people” I am guessing, so she should not be held responsible for something she didn’t do just as Dario should not be thought of as condemning all straights because of the kind of typo that happens to everyone.

As far as her other downvotes, I would have to look at them as I don’t remember them specifically (not sure if I have even seen that many of them as downvotes are not always obvious, especially if I have already read a post and don’t go back to reread it).  I do remember sometimes thinking she has good reason to downvote a post even if I would not, I think I have joined her in a couple of downvotes, other times I think she is wrong.

Edited February 5 by Calm

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  When you see a post specifically calling out unrighteous judgments and asking people to stop doing it, but you got a beef with the poster, so you unrighteously assume that the poster is unrighteously assuming, and end up looking the fool.

This is almost a meme.

I didn't assume. I am convinced that what I said is exactly what happened so I can read this thread and even chuckle at your smug castigation with a smile on my face and a song in my heart.

Maybe that makes me a monster. If so, I like it!

[Dario_M]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

I am speaking up not to condemn you or anyone else, Dario, but to hopefully prevent more misunderstandings because I believe this is an honest mistake similar to one I make a lot.  My memory is that it did not say “some” right at the beginning because I really debated myself about reporting it and there would be no reason to report “some straight people” because that is accurate in my experience.

I did not report Dario though because it didn’t match what he had said at other times, so it didn’t make much sense to me for Dario to have said that. I assumed he had accidentally left “some” out (I leave out nots all the time and end up saying the opposite of what I mean), so it appeared to me it was likely a typo and my guess now is that is why Dario remembers it as “some straight people” because that is what he meant to write as opposed to what he wrote.

I also thought when I first read it and was debating myself about reporting it, if it wasn’t a typo then it was likely Dario  for a moment was reliving a painful experience and therefore said something in an absolute way where he wouldn’t usually say it, which is why I didn’t do what I usually do with problematic typos and ask for clarification.  I feel bad I didn’t now because this misunderstanding wouldn’t have happened.

 

Okay fine. It whas indeed a mistake. Offcourse i do understood that not every straight person is disgust by gay people. But that whas not really what i meant, allready from the beginning. I am on meds also. And it just messes up my memorie.

The onther things i said about Portuguese people are sadly....well....i mean what i said about them..sorry😞.

I am very unhappy here. And some of those unhappy feelings has to do with the way how people treat me here. 

But my parents have moved here and i have the feeling that i need them right now. I don't wanna live some 2000 kms away  from them. Wich i did when i lived in the Netherlands last year. And in the Netherlands i whas also really unhappy anyway. Also because the way how people treat me there and because of a really rotten goverment that made everything crazy expensive. And complex. Plus, bad relationship. Another plus, my parents where far away. 

10 hours ago, Calm said:

Given Dario went in and clarified what he meant and now remembers it as “some”, it clearly appears to me it was a typo and my gut response that it didn’t sound like him was right.

I so agree the end result is important and that is why I am speaking up.  I don’t believe raingirl would downvote the end result nor would she have downvoted “some straight people” I am guessing, so she should not be held responsible for something she didn’t do just as Dario should not be thought of as condemning all straights because of the kind of typo that happens to everyone.

Btw sorry if i offended you or anyone else. 😔

 

Edited February 5 by Dario_M

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

And it just messes up my memories.

I get scared every now and then when I have managed to really mess stuff up by forgetting. Thankfully everyone is pretty understanding and I have learned to warn people they need to remind me if it’s important.

I am always having arguments (just teasing ones, though my daughter can get annoyed if we forget to tell her about visitors coming over) these days with my family on whether I tell them something or not. Thankfully I am off Ambien which was really bad for my memory…I would find emails the following day I had forgotten I’d written and just imagining a conversation would lead me to ‘remember’ having it. Guess my imagination is too good.  I have learned to mention important stuff several times…which also makes it seem I am losing my mind, lol. 

——

It is hard to live in a culture you don’t feel at home in. When we were in Russia, almost no one looked at us or smiled.  Even when shopping it was hard to get a cashier to respond even when right in front of them. I think they were just trained not to trust or show emotions because many Russians were very friendly if we were introduced to them by friends. 

It was a very hard time for everyone in the family, we were all so grateful to get home. My husband was teaching in Moscow for a semester. 

I would not be the least surprised if some of my daughter’s severe social anxiety these days came from that time as she was only five. 
 

I hope you can find a way to make it work for you. 
 

PS:  I wasn’t offended. I just felt bad for others because it seemed likely to me it was a misunderstanding. 

Edited February 5 by Calm

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I get scared every now and then when I have managed to really mess stuff up by forgetting. Thankfully everyone is pretty understanding and I have learned to warn people they need to remind me if it’s important.

I am always having arguments (just teasing ones, though my daughter can get annoyed if we forget to tell her about visitors coming over) these days with my family on whether I tell them something or not. Thankfully I am off Ambien which was really bad for my memory…I would find emails the following day I had forgotten I’d written and just imagining a conversation would lead me to ‘remember’ having it. Guess my imagination is too good.  I have learned to mention important stuff several times…which also makes it seem I am losing my mind, lol. 

——

It is hard to live in a culture you don’t feel at home in. When we were in Russia, almost no one looked at us or smiled.  Even when shopping it was hard to get a cashier to respond even when right in front of them. I think they were just trained not to trust or show emotions because many Russians were very friendly if we were introduced to them by friends. 

It was a very hard time for everyone in the family, we were all so grateful to get home. My husband was teaching in Moscow for a semester. 

I would not be the least surprised if some of my daughter’s severe social anxiety these days came from that time as she was only five. 
 

I hope you can find a way to make it work for you. 
 

PS:  I wasn’t offended. I just felt bad for others because it seemed likely to me it was a misunderstanding. 

Yes i am need to go to the church about 9 minutes. I will read your post when i am back dear calm okay. ❤❤❤❤❤

Edited February 5 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

I get scared every now and then when I have managed to really mess stuff up by forgetting. Thankfully everyone is pretty understanding and I have learned to warn people they need to remind me if it’s important.

 

Yeah i can understand you completaly. I forget a lot. I could be because of the corona pandemic. I think that i have lung covid. 

And offcourse the meds where i am on now. 💊 

5 hours ago, Calm said:

I am always having arguments (just teasing ones, though my daughter can get annoyed if we forget to tell her about visitors coming over) these days with my family on whether I tell them something or not. Thankfully I am off Ambien which was really bad for my memory…I would find emails the following day I had forgotten I’d written and just imagining a conversation would lead me to ‘remember’ having it. Guess my imagination is too good.  I have learned to mention important stuff several times…which also makes it seem I am losing my mind, lol. 

Really? But why is your daughter so annoyed when you forget to tell her that visitors are comming? Does she not like the visitors then?? 😔

Let me geuss...she is a teenager! Teenagers are always annoyed when these typ of thinks happen. I also had the same problem when i whas a teenager as well. 

But please don't losse you mind dear calm. 🫂 to me you always look so calm and wise. I just can't amagine that you would be that type of person to losse you mind at any time actually. 😅

5 hours ago, Calm said:

——

It is hard to live in a culture you don’t feel at home in. When we were in Russia, almost no one looked at us or smiled.  Even when shopping it was hard to get a cashier to respond even when right in front of them. I think they were just trained not to trust or show emotions because many Russians were very friendly if we were introduced to them by friends. 

Here in Portugal it is also a bit like that. At least that counts for me. I Think they don't like me. 

5 hours ago, Calm said:

It was a very hard time for everyone in the family, we were all so grateful to get home. My husband was teaching in Moscow for a semester. 

I would not be the least surprised if some of my daughter’s severe social anxiety these days came from that time as she was only five. 
 

Sounds really traumatic. Well let me tell you. There is no single hair on my head that thinks about going to Russia. That country has always scared me a lot. 🥶

5 hours ago, Calm said:

I hope you can find a way to make it work for you. 
 

PS:  I wasn’t offended. I just felt bad for others because it seemed likely to me it was a misunderstanding. 

Yes it whas a misunderstanding. Mixed with some negative emotions from my childhood and teenagerhood. 

God bless you. ✝️

Edited February 5 by Dario_M