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Should anyone care about historical hate speech by senior Church leadership?

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2 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:




I would also like to apologize to the other sisters in this discussion for being short with you and not doing a better job of seeing things from your perspective. 

This last part for me is huge.  I don't expect anyone to agree with me ever, but when I can tell people are trying to see things from my perspective it makes all the difference in the world. I get that they love me as one of Heavenly Father's children and are willing to try to see me as he does. 

I reccomend 7 Habits of Highly Effective People a lot for this reason.  The other things in the book are good, but the way it talks about listening to others is one of the best things I have learned from a book. The scriptures talk about not judging, judging righteously etc and 7 Habits gives practical tips on how to do that.

Please know that I am not saying that you, Grug, alone should read it (I happen to think everyone should).  What you said in that last paragraph just reminded me of it. Seeing each other's perceptive moves mountains sometimes and definitely helps bring in the one. 

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1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

Around 72% of women with children under the age of 18 work to some degree outside the home. Which means just about everyone here will either be a working mom or be close to people that are ones.

I appreciate you trying to explain your perspective. I actually completely understand why there are women (and a few men) who got really defensive over my viewpoint over the reason you mentioned here. Which is why I said that I believe that certain women felt threatened (maybe offended would be better word choice) by my views and got defensive. Like I said before, I don’t hold any malice over the fact that people got defensive and gave me push back. 

However, I consider the charge of misogyny to be false. Accusing a man of being a misogynist is highly offensive, especially when that man hasn’t actually said anything explicitly prejudiced towards women. So I hope that you and the other women who made this charge against me can understand why I was defensive about this. And I would appreciate it if the charge of misogyny is withdrawn. 

Edited by Grug the Neanderthal
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7 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

please accept my sincere apology for how I treated you. What I did was wrong. I wish I could take what I did back. I take full responsibility for how I treated you. I'm truly sorry for any hurt my words and actions caused you.


Apology is sufficient, no need to wish to take it back.  You didn’t hurt me beyond some major frustration and then some minor anger towards the end. It wouldn’t be wise for me to post on the board if I was hurt by such things.

All I ask is to believe me in the future that I don’t do damage control, as in try to make what I said into something else….too much work.  I long ago learned it took less energy and had much better results to just admit if I messed up writing or reading something.  Miscommunication is rampant on the internet and I have seen it happen constantly offline, so I start from the position I have misunderstood something or someone has misunderstood me and it pleases me when it appears I wrote a post that isn’t confusing.  It is one reason why my posts are often long, in my head more detail means more understanding, but reality seems to often be more misunderstanding unfortunately.  I am happy to clarify once, even twice, maybe more if it is just a conversation and not in an argument (debate type of argument, not fight type of argument), but anyone is going to get instant pushback if they insist they know what I meant better than I do, because that is just wrong.  You aren’t the first, would be nice but unlikely for you to be the last.

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