Can we Scare People Into Heaven/Exaltation?

[CV75]

9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I always heard hell is when you watch your life back after you die and realize all that you did wrong or what your could have done better possibly.

That's nothing to be afraid of, is it?

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Thank you verry much. How nice of you.

Yes i have allready read some new light about the whole idea of hell. A better light i find. Let's hope it is true. All tough i have said in my intervieuw that i allready believe everything the gospel is saying. So actually i should not say that i hope everything about that is true. I should be sure about that allready.

Check out Alma 36 -- part of it describes Alma's experience with hell and what he did about it. His fear was generated internally, not imposed externally. His fear was dispelled through faith, which he chose also. His pains having been removed and replaced with joy, and his motivation became being born of God instead of rebellion.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

@CalmOh i am so sorry that whas not my meaning offcourse. 

I am 30 years old. Also not that young anymore. 

My daughter is 30. If she called me girl I would know she was teasing me and expecting a highly sarcastic reply. It just feels weird being called “girl” when it has been over 40 years since I was one, lol, and in some cases (not this one) it is very patronizing when a man does this. 

[california boy]

20 hours ago, CV75 said:

I see no role for fear in the gospel as a tool of motivation -- both faith and knowledge, and charity, dispel it.

Fear is at the central core of the gospel.  It is what everything is built around. If you don't pay your tithing, you can't go to the temple. If you don't go to the temple then you can't make the necessary covenants.  If you don't make the necessary covenants, then you are not on the covenant path.  If you aren't on the covenant path, then you will not be with your family when you die.  If you are not with your family when you die, you will be miserable for eternity.

And that is not even addressing the fear of sin and how that will also lead to a miserable place.  So raise your hands.  who wants to be miserable for eternity?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The Telestial Kingdom is not hell; it's a kingdom of glory and part of heaven, along with the Terrestrial and Celestial Kingdoms. In the end, people who inherit telestial glory will all accept Jesus Christ, repent fully of all their sins, escape suffering, and be redeemed through His cleansing blood. It's a beautifully generous and merciful plan!

Darios, there is a often repeated story (I don’t know how well documented it is) that Joseph Smith claimed that if we just got a glimpse of the Telestial Kingdom we would all be committing suicide to get there, it is so wonderful. I will try and find more information on it if you are interested.  I don’t believe it is true, I would hope most of us would have enough self control to wait for God’s blessings as he wants us to, but it does illustrate well the glory and goodness of what is to come  

God is a loving Father, the most loving parent in existence; he is going to give everyone as much good as they are willing to receive. There is no reason therefore to fear any of our ultimate destinations and since we will be ending up where we choose to go, I don’t see us even being disappointed. 

Now having said that, I don’t see everything connected to getting to the heavens as all bright and rosy. While the end will be glorious, depending on our choices in this life, how much we are willing to forsake sins for our love of God and others as well as ourselves, and just the often unfortunate and painful circumstances of many of our lives that came about through little to no fault of our own, getting to the kingdoms may be quite painful for many of us.  Mortality is not usually an easy life that is breezed through without suffering v

While I am not afraid of death, the dying part looks very unappealing especially after caring for my mother for five years not that long ago after my father died. She had dementia and limited mobility and while she seemed to enjoy life for the most part, I am worried that I might end up in a worse situation because my health is already not that great. My grandmother and great grandmother both suffered from dementia in a bad way and I am really, really hoping I take after my dad’s side of the family in this and not my mom’s.  

Trusting in the love of God is therefore a very big thing for me. I’d be extremely angry about my life if I didn’t have the hope of heaven because the main reason I am in this situation now besides genetics is because doctors screwed up and misdiagnosed me for decades, giving me the worst advice and medications for my disorder and even when the correct info was available refused to take the time to educate themselves to better treat me.  Then there were (and are) the crap government policies and pharmacies misrepresenting some of their medications and making others too expensive to afford, so that in order to function at all I had to take medications that helped in the short term but sped up the longterm deterioration significantly instead of being able to get drugs that worked with fewer long term side effects. 
 

The world is not just or fair at all and never was meant to be, so it is hardly surprising that fear and anger may be a big part of our lives because it is hard to trust nor should we trust other humans all the time. Unfortunately this may mean it is hard for us to learn to trust God who does merit our full trust.  It may be impossible for some to come to a place where fear no longer is a part of our view of eternal life.  It is also hard at times to believe we will ever be good enough for God if we have experienced many times where we have fallen short of our goals and others’ expectations and it’s really hard if we have been getting the message from many that we are not good enough and never will be. 
 

We need to counteract the messages of the world that tell us it isn’t worth it to try, that getting by is good enough and comfort and pleasure now is more important than happiness in the future.  Studying the Gospel, immersing ourselves in the Good News is the best way I know of to let go of the sense of unfairness about mortal life and the anger and fear that goes with that. When we constantly remind ourselves we don’t need to do this alone, that we are good enough to walk with God because he will provide us with whatever we need and more eventually, if not immediately, for us to be able to climb his Way, we will learn to focus on the light, not the darkness and on the hope that is there in our future, which hope even shines a loving light on our current circumstances no matter how dark they may feel.  Eventually we may even lose the need to protect ourselves with fear and anger and instead be able to put the energy and effort we wasted on them into bettering our lives now, even being able to create our own heaven on earth. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Calm

[InCognitus]

3 minutes ago, california boy said:

Fear is at the central core of the gospel.  It is what everything is built around. If you don't pay your tithing, you can't go to the temple. If you don't go to the temple then you can't make the necessary covenants.  If you don't make the necessary covenants, then you are not on the covenant path.  If you aren't on the covenant path, then you will not be with your family when you die.  If you are not with your family when you die, you will be miserable for eternity.

That's not fear.  Those are simply the steps you must take if you want to participate in those specific objectives.

If you don't go to grade school, you can't learn to read.  If you don't learn to read, you can't graduate from high school.  If you want a good job you may need to go to college.  Does fear drive you to do those things?  Or do you do them because you desire the better result in the end?  

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The Telestial Kingdom is not hell; it's a kingdom of glory and part of heaven, along with the Terrestrial and Celestial Kingdoms. In the end, people who inherit telestial glory will all accept Jesus Christ, repent fully of all their sins, escape suffering, and be redeemed through His cleansing blood. It's a beautifully generous and merciful plan!

It's a better plan then what the bibble presents indeed. 😂

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

Check out Alma 36 -- part of it describes Alma's experience with hell and what he did about it. His fear was generated internally, not imposed externally. His fear was dispelled through faith, which he chose also. His pains having been removed and replaced with joy, and his motivation became being born of God instead of rebellion.

I will look into it again yeah. Thank you for your advice. 

[Dario_M]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

My daughter is 30. If she called me girl I would know she was teasing me and expecting a highly sarcastic reply. It just feels weird being called “girl” when it has been over 40 years since I was one, lol, and in some cases (not this one) it is very patronizing when a man does this. 

🤣

[Dario_M]

It whas a joke sorry. 

[CV75]

56 minutes ago, california boy said:

Fear is at the central core of the gospel.  It is what everything is built around. If you don't pay your tithing, you can't go to the temple. If you don't go to the temple then you can't make the necessary covenants.  If you don't make the necessary covenants, then you are not on the covenant path.  If you aren't on the covenant path, then you will not be with your family when you die.  If you are not with your family when you die, you will be miserable for eternity.

And that is not even addressing the fear of sin and how that will also lead to a miserable place.  So raise your hands.  who wants to be miserable for eternity?

You are just trying to use fear to motivate making miserable choices.

[CV75]

16 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

I will look into it again yeah. Thank you for your advice. 

Since when does Atlantic Mike need advice?

[Dario_M]

11 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Since when does Atlantic Mike need advice?

What is that suppose to mean? 😴

[Nofear]

Posted in the Lesson 12 - Our Need for Spiritual Rebirth thread.

"Our Latter-day Saint theology asserts that we will inhabit a Kingdom according to what were are willing/comfortable/able to bear (see D&C 88:22-24 and 33).

If I am willing and able to abide the societal structure/rules/nature of the Celestial Kingdom then I would happily join that society of beings. If that is a bit too much for me, then perhaps I'd be willing and able to abide the societal structure/rules/nature of the Terrestrial Kingdom and so I would be most happy there (and not the Celestial Kingdom). If I'm not able or willing to meet the Terrestrial requirements then I'll be most happy in the Telestial Kingdom. If not even tolerate that... well, that is by far and away a very rare exception and so scarcely worth mentioning.

While justice and law still have their place in our judgment, after all is said and done, our end state is based on who we have become. If we desire the Celestial Kingdom, then Christ and the Atonement is absolutely necessary for us to become one would is able and willing to abide a Celestial society. Put another way, God affords us opportunity to go where we'll be most happy based on who we are."

We don't inhabit a kingdom according to negative behavioral motivators (e.g. fear) but positive behavioral motivators (who we are).

[CV75]

19 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

What is that suppose to mean? 😴

Ask the missionaries, they can help!

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

What is that suppose to mean? 😴

We have had a lot of trolls, the past year or so, especially ones who have been banned (for going too far in vulgarities, disrespecting others, ignoring board rules) who come back under new names and pretending to be different people or otherwise justifying breaking the board rule of respecting the moderator’s ban. Generally if you are patient and respect the ban, the ban will be temporary.  But some people think they have some sort of right to post whatever and however they want on a board someone else pays for and takes care of in order to have a certain type of community, one of civil and respectful discourse between believers in different faiths…or none at all.  

It has become almost a competition to see who can identify the latest troll the first.

Anyway, due to the consistent sneaking back in, it is hard not to look for the trolls in each new poster.  You must remind CV of one called Atlantic Mike and it is about time he puts in another appearance.  If you are not Mike, please don’t take it personally and be patient as we get to know you better.

And if by chance you are Mike, please find another way to entertain yourself.

[Chum]

7 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I beg your pardon? 😖

We were saying  

12 hours ago, Chum said:

19 hours ago, Dario_M said:

if your family is as worse as you you will meet them again.

You first.

As far as hanging with my kin for eternity, you go right ahead.

If God truly loves me, I'll be adoptable.

[Dario_M]

7 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Ask the missionaries, they can help!

Help me with what?

Oh my. You are acting a bit strange to me. Do you mind? 

[Chum]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

My daughter is 30. ... It has been over 40 years since I was [a girl],

Someone was in the advanced class.

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Chum said:

We were saying  

As far as hanging with my kin for eternity, you go right ahead.

If God truly loves me, I'll be adoptable.

I will save a place for you and your kids if you all want in my extended family.  My family has great, meaningful conversations and are heavy with musicians and performers and my husband’s family have a lot of fun activities together and lots of health practitioners including therapists and both are great at giving space when needed, so depending on your mood there is usually something that will work for you.  

[Dario_M]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

We have had a lot of trolls, the past year or so, especially ones who have been banned (for going too far in vulgarities, disrespecting others, ignoring board rules) who come back under new names and pretending to be different people or otherwise justifying breaking the board rule of respecting the moderator’s ban. Generally if you are patient and respect the ban, the ban will be temporary.  But some people think they have some sort of right to post whatever and however they want on a board someone else pays for and takes care of in order to have a certain type of community, one of civil and respectful discourse between believers in different faiths…or none at all.  

It has become almost a competition to see who can identify the latest troll the first.

Anyway, due to the consistent sneaking back in, it is hard not to look for the trolls in each new poster.  You must remind CV of one called Atlantic Mike and it is about time he puts in another appearance.  If you are not Mike, please don’t take it personally and be patient as we get to know you better.

And if by chance you are Mike, please find another way to entertain yourself.

 

I can understand that completaly.

And NO. I am not Mike. I have never heard from this forum before. I whas looking for a platform about Mormons because i just have become on. 

Btw...i am not even from US. I am originaly from the Netherlands. And right now i have moved to Lisbon Portugal. So i am in Portugal now. Relax guys. I am not a troll

[Dario_M]

10 minutes ago, Chum said:

We were saying  

As far as hanging with my kin for eternity, you go right ahead.

If God truly loves me, I'll be adoptable.

???

Okay whatever you want. 

[Chum]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I will save a place for you and your kids if you all want in my extended family.  My family has great, meaningful conversations and are heavy with musicians and performers and my husband’s family have a lot of fun activities together and lots of health practitioners including therapists and both are great at giving space when needed, so depending on your mood there is usually something that will work for you.  

Nice. I'd even pick up my socks at night.

[Chum]

Just now, Dario_M said:

Okay whatever you want. 

I want you to take my place so, wow, thanks!  I'll go make the changes in FamilySearch.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

whas looking for a platform about Mormons because i just have become on. 

What were your search terms?  And did you look at several?  I am just wondering how we rate with google or whatever you used.