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Latest Story About a "Mormon" Abusing Children


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47 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Ok.  Well it’s hopeless then. 🙅🏻

Why interviews in the first place? I doubt they did this when Joseph Smith was acting as president/prophet. Or doubt it came from God, especially with all the abuse that takes place with idiot interviewers.

Edited by Tacenda
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43 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Why interviews in the first place? I doubt they did this when Joseph Smith was acting as president/prophet.

Do you really want to take standards from a time period that was okay with not only parents beating kids for discipline, but teachers as well and where child labor laws (in England children made up 50% of the workforce apparently) were not much in place?

Seen, but not heard is not a preferable approach, imo. 
 

added:  The Polish version is even better…

"Dzieci i ryby głosu nie mają"(Kids and fishes have no voice).

Edited by Calm
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1 minute ago, Calm said:

Do you really want to take standards from a time period that was okay with not only parents beating kids for discipline, but teachers as well and where child labor laws were not much in place?

Seen, but not heard is not a preferable approach, imo. 

Having had a terrible day with my head and my emotions running amok, I don't understand what your telling me. 

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13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Having had a terrible day with my head and my emotions running amok, I don't understand what your telling me. 

Don’t worry about it too much, just saying children are treated better in this day and age where “spare the rod and spoil the child” is rejected at an inspired teaching. I would be concerned about using standards from a time period that treated children as adults not long after they hit puberty (in the 1880 census, almost 12% of the women had been married between 15 and 19 years of age, for example).  
 

Not much was done for children in the Church as far as I can tell until Primary came around 50 years after the Church got going.  Maybe someone more familiar with church history can share what they know. 
 

But I am guessing they probably wouldn’t have child interviews because children were more of an afterthought back then, at least church wise.  You didn’t have to worry about them until they were adults, old enough to be independent, get married, etc 

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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Ok.  Well it’s hopeless then. 🙅🏻

Agreed- church never trusts men and women to work together… they will prob have sex. I’m not necessarily disagreeing just funny that they have those controls in place and at the same time tell our kids that our standards are higher than the heathens. 
 

Just have the priesthood do it all.. or make new role for relief society pres. She can ask boys and girls if they touch themselves. Wont be awkward at all lol.. 

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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Ok.  Well it’s hopeless then. 🙅🏻

 

7 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I may be mistaken but I thought there was a thread recently where men and women sharing positions or duties together was discussed. Several posters mentioned women and men should not work together because they may develop the equivalent of a workplace relationship. Same thing could happen here. Even if it is just these interviews. The bishop and rs pres will be together a lot and can continue the relationship outside the office so-to-speak. 
 

im not opposed to it but pairing up men and women for anything in this church other than marriage seems to be taboo. 

Men and women work together at church all the time, just not in the same presidencies.  When I was the young women's president I worked with the young men's president all the time, but never alone together and not all the time obviously.  I know the RS president often deals with the EQ president as well, in the same way. 

There's no reason the Bishop and RS president couldn't work together on this.

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Or doubt it came from God, especially with all the abuse that takes place with idiot interviewers.

If that's the standard of what comes from God then marriage and family definitely isn't endorsed by Him either.  Not with all the idiot spouses and parents.

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6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

There have been countless, just read Sam Young's site with stories, that have been harmfully affected. https://protecteverychild.com/about/#

For sure, but what I'm saying is that the existence of bad outcomes cannot be used as the standard for whether or not something is of God, because there are a lot of things that we know are good, that still can have bad outcomes when people choose to behave badly.

  • Marriage
  • Parenting
  • School
  • Employment
  • Religion (of every variety)
  • Politics
  • Therapy
  • Medicine
  • Homeschooling
  • Sports

Those are all things where there have been countless examples of people being harmfully affected while taking part.  Those are also all things that are basically good or beneficial under the right circumstances, regardless of the potential for harm.

(I'm sorry that you are struggling so much right now.  You haven't sounded like yourself on the board for a while.  I hope you can find some relief).

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3 hours ago, bluebell said:

 

Men and women work together at church all the time, just not in the same presidencies.  When I was the young women's president I worked with the young men's president all the time, but never alone together and not all the time obviously.  I know the RS president often deals with the EQ president as well, in the same way. 

There's no reason the Bishop and RS president couldn't work together on this.

Agreed but how often are they behind closed doors together? If you have a kid come in and after the tenth time asking (yep some bishops are relentless- mine during my teen years was)  finally confesses to porn use and all that goes with it. Now after kiddo leaves the bish and rs pres prob have to discuss game plan going forward. Can’t very well do that with other people sitting in the hallway- need to stay behind closed doors. 
 

The church will never tolerate some priesthood holding kid confessing masturbation and porn to the rs pres. After all the kid has more power than she does ( she has zippo) and shouldn’t answer to her or even need to have her in the room- If my understanding of the priesthood is correct. 

Edited by Diamondhands69
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3 hours ago, bluebell said:

If that's the standard of what comes from God then marriage and family definitely isn't endorsed by Him either.  Not with all the idiot spouses and parents.

Not a good comparison.
 

Couples are united by their own choosing and supposedly god does not interfere with agency. 
 

Last I heard is the 1st presidency ( Prophets, seers and revelators chosen by God)  ultimately approves of bishops so by extension God chooses the bishop. 

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5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Why interviews in the first place? I doubt they did this when Joseph Smith was acting as president/prophet. Or doubt it came from God, especially with all the abuse that takes place with idiot interviewers.

Actually Joseph Smith did conduct interviews of sorts with teen girls to convince them they needed to marry a 35 year old prophet. So there is that- maybe that’s where it all started? 

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1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Agreed but how often are they behind closed doors together? If you have a kid come in and after the tenth time asking (yep some bishops are relentless- mine during my teen years was)  finally confesses to porn use and all that goes with it. Now after kiddo leaves the bish and rs pres prob have to discuss game plan going forward. Can’t very well do that with other people sitting in the hallway- need to stay behind closed doors. 
 

The church will never tolerate some priesthood holding kid confessing masturbation and porn to the rs pres. After all the kid has more power than she does ( she has zippo) and shouldn’t answer to her or even need to have her in the room- If my understanding of the priesthood is correct. 

Remember that we are talking about interviews for 8-11 year olds with the purpose of building a relationship of trust.  These wouldn't be worthiness interviews I don't think.  If a worthiness issue came up it wouldn't have anything to do with the RS president.  Even the bishop's counselors don't deal with that because that is strictly in the preview of the bishop. 

And since it's not a worthiness interview (it's not for being baptized or for being ordained or getting a temple recommend) then there is no reason they would have to be done behind closed doors.

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1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Not a good comparison.
 

Couples are united by their own choosing and supposedly god does not interfere with agency. 
 

Last I heard is the 1st presidency ( Prophets, seers and revelators chosen by God)  ultimately approves of bishops so by extension God chooses the bishop. 

Christianity teaches that marriage is ordained of God however.  (But I think you might be confused about my point because bishops being called by revelation and yet still rarely doing evil things isn't what I was speaking about.  Tacenda made the point that interviews probably aren't condoned by God because too many interviewers are idiots.  By that reasoning, anything that has idiots involved probably can't be condoned by God either.  And that would include pretty much everything (marriage included) because idiots are like the poor.  They will always be with us)

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1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Actually Joseph Smith did conduct interviews of sorts with teen girls to convince them they needed to marry a 35 year old prophet. So there is that- maybe that’s where it all started? 

Do we have a reference for this?  The instances that I know of he went through the girls parents, but I certainly haven't studied this enough to remember all of the particulars.

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3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Remember that we are talking about interviews for 8-11 year olds with the purpose of building a relationship of trust.  These wouldn't be worthiness interviews I don't think.  If a worthiness issue came up it wouldn't have anything to do with the RS president.  Even the bishop's counselors don't deal with that because that is strictly in the preview of the bishop. 

And since it's not a worthiness interview (it's not for being baptized or for being ordained or getting a temple recommend) then there is no reason they would have to be done behind closed doors.

Who is to say what will happen? They are making 11 year old deacons now. My first interview and where I learned what masturbation is was at my interview to be a deacon. These days it would have happened over half a year earlier than it did. 
 

yep got asked about it… blank stare. 

do you know what masturbation is? No

well it’s when a boy does this and that with his …  do you do that ? No 

Lots of kids learned what it was that way. Now they know in third grade cuz mom and dad got em a phone. 

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5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Christianity teaches that marriage is ordained of God however.  (But I think you might be confused about my point because bishops being called by revelation and yet still rarely doing evil things isn't what I was speaking about.  Tacenda made the point that interviews probably aren't condoned by God because too many interviewers are idiots.  By that reasoning, anything that has idiots involved probably can't be condoned by God either.  And that would include pretty much everything (marriage included) because idiots are like the poor.  They will always be with us)

The idiots will always be there yes.. 


 

 

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3 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Who is to say what will happen? They are making 11 year old deacons now. My first interview and where I learned what masturbation is was at my interview to be a deacon. These days it would have happened over half a year earlier than it did. 
 

yep got asked about it… blank stare. 

do you know what masturbation is? No

well it’s when a boy does this and that with his …  do you do that ? No 

Lots of kids learned what it was that way. Now they know in third grade cuz mom and dad got em a phone. 

I'm going off of what the letter said the purpose of those interviews would be.  They are already doing these with the ym/yw (every 6 months) and they aren't worthiness interviews (unless someone's temple recommend is up, which would not be an issue for this age group).  Is there some legitimate reason to assume that these interviews would not be for the stated purpose and would work differently than the ones that currently take place for older kids?

I know you had a really bad experience with your bishop.  I cannot relate as I was never asked anything even close to that, ever.  But I believe that it did happen to you and it makes sense that you are still angry about it.

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7 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Who is to say what will happen? They are making 11 year old deacons now. My first interview and where I learned what masturbation is was at my interview to be a deacon. These days it would have happened over half a year earlier than it did. 
 

yep got asked about it… blank stare. 

do you know what masturbation is? No

well it’s when a boy does this and that with his …  do you do that ? No 

Lots of kids learned what it was that way. Now they know in third grade cuz mom and dad got em a phone. 

Bingo!

Back in the day, they heard for the first time what that term meant right in the office of a bishop. Plus the pornography question, same thing.

The cycle begins, the shame if a youth saw it and then felt guilt and shame and that sometime can lead to an addiction, making them feel worthless, on top of that, they might have been told to stop taking the Sacrament for a while. 

I blame the bishops, not all, that started these horrific patterns. Is it any wonder that porn is so rampant in the church? But who started the bishops even asking these questions, the leaders above them?

 

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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I blame the bishops, not all, that started these horrific patterns. Is it any wonder that porn is so rampant in the church? But who started the bishops even asking these questions, the leaders above them?

 

Are you saying that so many men wouldn't watch porn if some bishops from decades ago hadn't asked about porn use?  (asking to make sure that I'm understanding you correctly).

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28 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Do we have a reference for this?  The instances that I know of he went through the girls parents, but I certainly haven't studied this enough to remember all of the particulars.

Not really .. I’m saying it partly in jest but do the math.
 

I mean it is clear he married several teen girls. I doubt any of them showed up at a random place and time and accidentally got sealed to Joseph smith. He had to have met with them first or worse… mom and dad negotiated the hand of their daughter in secret marriage and the girl just had to deal with it when she was told who she was going to marry. 

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