How can I pay in trade or shares of my increase?

[nuclearfuels]

How can I pay in trade or shares of my increase?

So I get a regular biweekly paycheck - after a high rate of taxes are stolen   taken / borrowed by the IRS, I pay taxes on the gross amount. 

I think the Church and I would both benefit if I submitted a certain amount of shares that equalled 10% of my increase, at the end of the calendar year.

Any of you pay in trade or know people who do? 

Since I've never heard anyone tell me or anyone else how they pay tithing, I'm asking you, freinds. 

[Stargazer]

9 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

How can I pay in trade or shares of my increase?

So I get a regular biweekly paycheck - after a high rate of taxes are stolen   taken / borrowed by the IRS, I pay taxes on the gross amount. 

I think the Church and I would both benefit if I submitted a certain amount of shares that equalled 10% of my increase, at the end of the calendar year.

Any of you pay in trade or know people who do? 

Since I've never heard anyone tell me or anyone else how they pay tithing, I'm asking you, freinds. 

As far as I am aware, the Church prefers that you convert your "in kind" donation to cash and donate it in that form.

But if you have securities you wish to donate, here's the church's web page about it: https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschrist.org/gift-planning/what-to-give/assets/securities/procedure-for-donating-securities

You might also find this informative: https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschrist.org/gift-planning/what-to-give/

[JustAnAustralian]

The church has a system set up to do it, see https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschrist.org/gift-planning/what-to-give/assets/securities/procedure-for-donating-securities for more information. I'd be contacting the people listed at the bottom there for info on the process of actually doing it.

[Stargazer]

4 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

The church has a system set up to do it, see https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschrist.org/gift-planning/what-to-give/assets/securities/procedure-for-donating-securities for more information. I'd be contacting the people listed at the bottom there for info on the process of actually doing it.

Beat you to it!  

[JustAnAustralian]

14 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Beat you to it!  

I had it ready to go without posting for a while because I was going to put in a bit about tax implications. I eventually decided that would complicate things, so removed it.

By which time, yes, you had beaten me to it.

[Stargazer]

16 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

I had it ready to go without posting for a while because I was going to put in a bit about tax implications. I eventually decided that would complicate things, so removed it.

By which time, yes, you had beaten me to it.

The linked pages don't say anything about donating Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. I wonder if the Church accepts Bitcoin?

[JustAnAustralian]

59 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I wonder if the Church accepts Bitcoin?

You'd have to ask I guess

 

[Stargazer]

9 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

You'd have to ask I guess

 

I suppose you're right. I "own" about US$27 of Bitcoin, so it's hardly worth bothering with. It used to be worth US$100 (that's what I paid for it), so you see how well that's turned out!  I figure I could donate it... just for the sake of doing so.

 

[Kenngo1969]

On 11/23/2022 at 4:21 PM, Stargazer said:

The linked pages don't say anything about donating Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. I wonder if the Church accepts Bitcoin?

After the whole fiasco involving Mr. Bankman-Fried, is Bitcoin worth anything, still?    

[The Nehor]

The church accepts donations of stocks, mutual funds, property, etc. They don’t prefer cash to those but they usually convert donations to it. This can be a benefit to the tithe payer who avoids taxes on selling appreciated assets. One method of giving I have seen happening more often is a personal charitable trust set up to donate through.

Most donations that are not cash do not go through local units and are not listed on your ward donations.

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:28 PM, nuclearfuels said:

Since I've never heard anyone tell me or anyone else how they pay tithing, I'm asking you, freinds. 

Well, you can always go to the source:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/search?lang=eng&page=1&query=tithing

Basically, you figure out between you and God what a tenth of your increase looks like.  Nobody should be telling you what that is - it's on you to think to yourself "This amount that I've decided is a full tithe, when I kneel before my master and give an accounting of how I followed the law of Tithing, will He be satisfied?"

As far as using stock goes, I know several people who pay that way for secular reasons.  Donating shares directly to a church gets you out of paying capital gains taxes, so that can be an attractive option for folks who vent a little spleen at the notion of taxes.   I have one buddy who got hosed trying to do this:  He got some stock through his Employee Stock Purchase Plan and held it to year end, then transferred to the church.  Only problem was the stock had lost value in that time, so not only was there no capital gains to avoid, he also ended up having to fork over more stock to make his 10% work.  In effect, it would have been cheaper to just pay from his checking account.  

If you want to shop around until you find an opinion you like, here's the lowest cost way to pay tithing I've heard to date, where the guy was still convinced he was being serious:   I had a buddy who would demand to be paid in gold coins.  A single gold coin (at the time) was worth ~$900, and looked like this:

 

See where it says "50 dollars"?    So, dude would make $90k a year, get paid with 100 gold coins.  Each gold coin was worth fifty bucks, it tells you right on the coin, so he really made $50X100 = Five thousand bucks.   So he'd put five hundred bucks in his tithing envelope, and whistled all the way to his tithing settlement/temple recommend interview appointment with his bishop.   

You may want to think carefully before following this method.  Reports have it the bishop chuckled, didn't sign his recommend, and told him to come back when he got serious about paying tithing.

[Danzo]

For the best tax treatment, donate appreciated stock directly. If the stock has depreciated, sell the stock, take the capital loss and donate the cash.

[Scott Lloyd]

It’s not necessary to tithe unrealized gains, which could just as readily become unrealized losses. Wait until you’ve locked in some of the gain by selling shares for cash, then tithe the proceeds from the sale. The gain is ethereal; its value to you does not materialize until you have converted it into a form that can be used to purchase goods and services. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[LoudmouthMormon]

17 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s not necessary to tithe unrealized gains, which could just as quickly become unrealized losses. Wait until you’ve locked in some of the gain by selling shares for cash, then tithe the proceeds from the sale. The gain is ethereal; it’s value to you does not materialize until you have converted it into a form that can be used to purchase goods and services. 

Dood's plan was to use the proceeds of his stock, to pay his family's full tithing.  He made this plan when he had, say, stock worth $10,000 and an income of $100,000.  From the time of his grand plan, to the time it came to cash in the stock, the stock had fallen in value to $6,000.  Which meant he had to come up with $4k from somewhere else to pay his tithing on his $100k income.  Avoiding capital gains tax was just gravy for his grand plan.  

[Scott Lloyd]

15 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Dood's plan was to use the proceeds of his stock, to pay his family's full tithing.  He made this plan when he had, say, stock worth $10,000 and an income of $100,000.  From the time of his grand plan, to the time it came to cash in the stock, the stock had fallen in value to $6,000.  Which meant he had to come up with $4k from somewhere else to pay his tithing on his $100k income.  Avoiding capital gains tax was just gravy for his grand plan.  

I’ll stick with my method. It’s easy to understand and calculate, and I don’t have to worry about whether I’m playing games with the Lord’s tenth. 
 

I liken it to if I hypothetically owned a company. If I did, I would pay myself a salary (and possibly bonuses and dividends) from the company profits. I would tithe my own salary but not the company’s growth. 
 

In essence, I view my invested funds as my company, which generates personal income for me. 
 

If I sold all or a portion of the company, I would tithe the proceeds (or my share of the proceeds) from the sale. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[2BizE]

If you pay 2% of your increase in tithing and the church takes it and puts it in is super secret (not so secret anymore) Ensign Peak fund and make 8% increase on their investment, doesn’t that equate to a total of 10%?

[Tacenda]

5 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

If you pay 2% of your increase in tithing and the church takes it and puts it in is super secret (not so secret anymore) Ensign Peak fund and make 8% increase on their investment, doesn’t that equate to a total of 10%?

It should!

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Well, you can always go to the source:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/search?lang=eng&page=1&query=tithing

Basically, you figure out between you and God what a tenth of your increase looks like.  Nobody should be telling you what that is - it's on you to think to yourself "This amount that I've decided is a full tithe, when I kneel before my master and give an accounting of how I followed the law of Tithing, will He be satisfied?"

As far as using stock goes, I know several people who pay that way for secular reasons.  Donating shares directly to a church gets you out of paying capital gains taxes, so that can be an attractive option for folks who vent a little spleen at the notion of taxes.   I have one buddy who got hosed trying to do this:  He got some stock through his Employee Stock Purchase Plan and held it to year end, then transferred to the church.  Only problem was the stock had lost value in that time, so not only was there no capital gains to avoid, he also ended up having to fork over more stock to make his 10% work.  In effect, it would have been cheaper to just pay from his checking account.  

If you want to shop around until you find an opinion you like, here's the lowest cost way to pay tithing I've heard to date, where the guy was still convinced he was being serious:   I had a buddy who would demand to be paid in gold coins.  A single gold coin (at the time) was worth ~$900, and looked like this:

 

See where it says "50 dollars"?    So, dude would make $90k a year, get paid with 100 gold coins.  Each gold coin was worth fifty bucks, it tells you right on the coin, so he really made $50X100 = Five thousand bucks.   So he'd put five hundred bucks in his tithing envelope, and whistled all the way to his tithing settlement/temple recommend interview appointment with his bishop.   

You may want to think carefully before following this method.  Reports have it the bishop chuckled, didn't sign his recommend, and told him to come back when he got serious about paying tithing.

A bishop with a backbone. What a novelty. (Sarcasm. I’ve no reason to doubt most bishops have backbones.)

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

If you pay 2% of your increase in tithing and the church takes it and puts it in is super secret (not so secret anymore) Ensign Peak fund and make 8% increase on their investment, doesn’t that equate to a total of 10%?

 

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

It should!

You can call it what you like, but it ain’t tithing

[LoudmouthMormon]

1 hour ago, 2BizE said:

If you pay 2% of your increase in tithing and the church takes it and puts it in is super secret (not so secret anymore) Ensign Peak fund and make 8% increase on their investment, doesn’t that equate to a total of 10%?

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

It should!

Heh - you folks use that same finger of scorn to type up your retirement plans?  "Why should I save for a rainy day or retirement, when the stock market has historically done so well?"

Heh.  I say again, heh.

 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

You can call it what you like, but it ain’t tithing

Old Testament

"Tithe" means a tenth or 10 percent. The tithing system described in the Bible was designed specifically to meet the needs of the religious, economic and political system of ancient Israel. Each of the twelve tribes of Israel, except the tribe of Levi, initially received an allotment of land in the promised land of Canaan. The Levites were assistants to Israel's priests and were supported by a tithe offering from other eleven tribes. All families of those eleven tribes were to give a tenth of all produce, flocks, and cattle to the Levites. In turn, the Levites were to give a tenth of that to support the priests (Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18:21-28). Tithes were also used to meet the needs of foreigners, orphans and widows. (Deuteronomy 26:12-13)

In addition, everyone was to be generous with those in need:

If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs. (NIV, Deuteronomy 15:7-8)

New Testament

There are several mentions of tithing in the New Testament (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, 18:12; Hebrews 7:5-9), but all refer to the Old Testament system. The New Testament does not give any specific rules about tithing, and most aspects of the Old Testament Law do not apply to Christians. (See What Does the Bible Say About the Old Testament Law?)

Jesus seems to support the tithe in Matthew 23:23-24, but these verses are primarily intended as a criticism of the Pharisees as hypocrites who obeyed the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law. They were so meticulous about the law that they tithed even the small amounts of spices they grew in household gardens, but they ignored the more important matters of justice, mercy and faith!

However, Jesus made it clear that we are obligated to be generous to those in need (Matthew 25:31-46).

Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (NIV, Matthew 5:42)

Giving is to be done cheerfully, rather than as an obligation (2 Corinthians 9:6-7), and not for the purpose of public recognition (Matthew 6:1-4). The right amount to give may be more or less than ten percent, depending on one's circumstances (Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22, 21:1-4, Hebrews 13:16, 1 John 3:17). Generous giving is an acknowledgment that everything we have is a gift from God, and is to be used in His service (Luke 12:33, Acts 20:35, 1 Timothy 6:17-19, James 1:17, 1:27, 1 Peter 4:10).

Rather than give a certain amount as an obligation, we are urged to share generously of whatever talents, abilities and wealth God has entrusted to us:

We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully. (NIV, Romans 12:6-8)

[Calm]

3 hours ago, 2BizE said:

If you pay 2% of your increase in tithing and the church takes it and puts it in is super secret (not so secret anymore) Ensign Peak fund and make 8% increase on their investment, doesn’t that equate to a total of 10%?

I suggest trying it out first next time you pay a bill. Give them 20% of the invoice with a note telling them to invest it until it equals what you owe them. 

[Scott Lloyd]

On 11/25/2022 at 4:37 PM, Tacenda said:

Old Testament

"Tithe" means a tenth or 10 percent. The tithing system described in the Bible was designed specifically to meet the needs of the religious, economic and political system of ancient Israel. Each of the twelve tribes of Israel, except the tribe of Levi, initially received an allotment of land in the promised land of Canaan. The Levites were assistants to Israel's priests and were supported by a tithe offering from other eleven tribes. All families of those eleven tribes were to give a tenth of all produce, flocks, and cattle to the Levites. In turn, the Levites were to give a tenth of that to support the priests (Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18:21-28). Tithes were also used to meet the needs of foreigners, orphans and widows. (Deuteronomy 26:12-13)

In addition, everyone was to be generous with those in need:

If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs. (NIV, Deuteronomy 15:7-8)

New Testament

There are several mentions of tithing in the New Testament (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, 18:12; Hebrews 7:5-9), but all refer to the Old Testament system. The New Testament does not give any specific rules about tithing, and most aspects of the Old Testament Law do not apply to Christians. (See What Does the Bible Say About the Old Testament Law?)

Jesus seems to support the tithe in Matthew 23:23-24, but these verses are primarily intended as a criticism of the Pharisees as hypocrites who obeyed the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law. They were so meticulous about the law that they tithed even the small amounts of spices they grew in household gardens, but they ignored the more important matters of justice, mercy and faith!

However, Jesus made it clear that we are obligated to be generous to those in need (Matthew 25:31-46).

Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (NIV, Matthew 5:42)

Giving is to be done cheerfully, rather than as an obligation (2 Corinthians 9:6-7), and not for the purpose of public recognition (Matthew 6:1-4). The right amount to give may be more or less than ten percent, depending on one's circumstances (Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22, 21:1-4, Hebrews 13:16, 1 John 3:17). Generous giving is an acknowledgment that everything we have is a gift from God, and is to be used in His service (Luke 12:33, Acts 20:35, 1 Timothy 6:17-19, James 1:17, 1:27, 1 Peter 4:10).

Rather than give a certain amount as an obligation, we are urged to share generously of whatever talents, abilities and wealth God has entrusted to us:

We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully. (NIV, Romans 12:6-8)

Is this a copy-and-paste?

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Is this a copy-and-paste?

Of course, queen of it.

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Of course, queen of it.

Don’t forget the links.