Technology and Humanity

[gav]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

This is all hypotheticals. The people who make the decisions are unlikely to be burdened with the ability to self-reflect.

True that!

[gav]

On 11/19/2022 at 7:15 AM, Emily said:

Here is where I think we diverge. I don't think God will come to Earth and create the utopia of the millinneum. I think the righteous mortals left on the earth after the winnowing events of the last days will create the utopia and welcome their King. 

Until we can present Christ with a world that is capable of receiving him...I don't there can be a millinneum.

 

Perhaps Christ's first coming to the America's is a type of his second? The slate had to be cleaned a bit before the centuries of peace and prosperity.

Edited November 21, 2022 by gav
typo

[Kenngo1969]

Anybody remember Flowers for Algernon, in which an operation is performed on a mentally challenged man that turns the man into a genius, only for him to discover that even his vastly increased mental capacity (which should be seen as only a good thing when compared with his previous state of mental stupor ... right?  Riiiight?   ) carries with it its very own pitfalls?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon

https://www.amazon.com/Flowers-Algernon-Daniel-Keyes/dp/015603008X

What did we "bargain for" when it came to deciding on the plan that gave us the opportunity to come to earth to be tested, to learn and to grow, to make choices, and so on?  I wonder, did I get much more than I bargained for?  That is to say, as someone with both a congenital disability and a longstanding behavioral health challenge (if someone had let me choose between the two, I would choose the former every time  ) did I bite off more than I can chew?  Can I be forgiven for, perhaps, wondering what all of the shouting was about when I learn that we "shouted for joy" at the prospect?

On the other hand, as much as someone might need to tie me to an ant hill and smother my ears with jam in order to get me to admit it (  ), I believe I am a more articulate, a more empathetic (hopefully), and a more intelligent human being with my disability than I would have been without it, and that's not merely a coincidence: I am those things because of my disability.  It forced me to develop myself in ways that I would not have been forced to do without it.

For what it's worth.  (Sorry, Kevin Christensen. )

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[The Nehor]

45 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Can I be forgiven for, perhaps, wondering what all of the shouting was about when I learn that we "shouted for joy" at the prospect?

I just assume we were all naive idiots.

[gav]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

What did we "bargain for" when it came to deciding on the plan that gave us the opportunity to come to earth to be tested, to learn and to grow, to make choices, and so on?  I wonder, did I get much more than I bargained for? 

Even Christ "began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;" in Gethsemane. Theoretical knowledge alone never seems to quite prepare one for the actual experience.

Edited November 21, 2022 by gav
typo

[Kenngo1969]

9 hours ago, gav said:

Even Christ "began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;" in Gethsemane. Theoretical knowledge alone never seems to quite prepare one for the actual experience.

You know, even though your avatar creeps me out, you're a pretty smart guy.    

P.S.: Then again, my avatar probably creeps you out more than yours creeps me out!     

Edited November 21, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[Benjamin McGuire]

On 11/17/2022 at 2:04 PM, OGHoosier said:

Presume that, in response to public outcry, the United States government formally subsidizes this technology for everybody. It would be a revolutionary approach which would make totalitarianism much easier to achieve (if the government controls the means of reproduction, how much more totalitarian can you get). 

In short, presume unequal access is no longer a major issue. Is the "custom fabrication" of human beings a problem?

I was thinking of this problem on a global scale - not just a local one. If the US were to provide this kind of service to all of its citizens who wanted it, would they also provide it to all of the individuals living in third world countries?

[mfbukowski]

20 minutes ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

I was thinking of this problem on a global scale - not just a local one. If the US were to provide this kind of service to all of its citizens who wanted it, would they also provide it to all of the individuals living in third world countries?

Blessed Bovine! 

[Meadowchik]

On 11/17/2022 at 8:33 AM, OGHoosier said:

LThis raises a serious question: are the old-fashioned biological ways of being important for humanity? Is there something about the "given-ness" of our place in the world that demands our respect? Or should we feel free to alter the world to whatever degree technology allows? What does it mean to be human? The Catholics seem to have an answer. The social libertarians/progressives seem to as well (though I think it abhorrent and will not apologize for so saying.) What say you? 

I'll ask again, what do progressives "seem to" have as an answer to this?

On 11/20/2022 at 6:05 PM, OGHoosier said:

Where are you getting this? I never said this. I'll thank you not to caricature my views. 

But you've implied that progressives have an answer to your OP that you find "abhorrent." Where are you getting a connection between overall views of progressives, and genetic modification?

Because avoiding the caricaturization of viewpoints was the point of my response. 

By not even defining what you deem the progressive answer, you also imply that it is obvious. And unless you can establish otherwise, I'd say the only "obvious" connection might possibly be the pro-choice stance.

Then, what is the possible connection between a pro-choice stance and your fear that humanity will resort to assembly-line babies? 

Logically, if you are associating the two I'd argue that you're saying that being pro-choice means not valuing the familial connection of parents raising children, or that being pro-choice means objectifying babies.  That is, unless you have some other explanation for how in your view the progressive answer to your OP is abhorrent.

On 11/20/2022 at 6:05 PM, OGHoosier said:

 

 

 

On 11/17/2022 at 8:33 AM, OGHoosier said:

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Meadowchik

[Kenngo1969]

29 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Blessed Bovine! 

As in "Holy ... !" ... Well, you know! ???     

Blessed Bessie, Beatified Bovine!  

Hindus do worship cows, don'tcha know?!  

Edited November 21, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

52 minutes ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

I was thinking of this problem on a global scale - not just a local one. If the US were to provide this kind of service to all of its citizens who wanted it, would they also provide it to all of the individuals living in third world countries?

Our tax dollars at work?  

[Thinking]

Does/will a spirit enter the body of such a manufactured being?

[The Nehor]

57 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Does/will a spirit enter the body of such a manufactured being?

Beware the soulless ones!

[mfbukowski]

8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

As in "Holy ... !" ... Well, you know! ???     

Blessed Bessie, Beatified Bovine!  

Hindus do worship cows, don'tcha know?!  

 

[OGHoosier]

12 hours ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

I was thinking of this problem on a global scale - not just a local one. If the US were to provide this kind of service to all of its citizens who wanted it, would they also provide it to all of the individuals living in third world countries?

A fair point, and one very worthy of discussion. 

No state government in the world could afford to provide that much for free. 

[OGHoosier]

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

Does/will a spirit enter the body of such a manufactured being?

I would expect so. I don't really see why He wouldn't. I've always thought that spirits are matched to bodies that generally suit their personalities, so if there are spirits waiting to come down then probably so. And there will be - the continuance of mortal society throughout the Millennium suggests that God's planning on pulling the plug on this whole pre-Advent operation with some spirits left to go. 

If human embryos created by these methods just never live, whereas the mouse ones do, then that would be an...interesting and rather suggestive data point. I don't expect it.

[Kenngo1969]

My personality is odious and vile ... and I suppose you could say that I have a body to match, so ... I guess it's all good!   

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, OGHoosier said:

... (T)he continuance of mortal society throughout the Millennium suggests that God's planning on pulling the plug on this whole pre-Advent operation with some spirits left to go. ...

You mean, some of us who don't have kids yet might have kids then? ...  Uyyy ... that's a scary thought!  

  (Actually, it's not: It's kind of cool, actually ...)

 

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

A fair point, and one very worthy of discussion. 

No state government in the world could afford to provide that much for free. 

The playing field of economics is about to be upended so who knows how relevant cost will be.

As one person noted increases in tools and automation multiplied jobs. Increases in the ability of machines to perform mental and even creative tasks will kill jobs.

[Stargazer]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:15 AM, Emily said:

Here is where I think we diverge. I don't think God will come to Earth and create the utopia of the millinneum. I think the righteous mortals left on the earth after the winnowing events of the last days will create the utopia and welcome their King. 

Until we can present Christ with a world that is capable of receiving him...I don't there can be a millinneum.

 

I disagree. It won't be us who do the presenting. It will be Christ who will make the world capable of receiving him, by eliminating all those who cannot. That's what that "tribulation" thing is all about, including the binding of Satan. Of course, plenty of those who are already capable of receiving him will also be removed also -- but they will have plenty of work to do in the Spirit World after they are removed from here. No rest for the weary!

[The Nehor]

15 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I disagree. It won't be us who do the presenting. It will be Christ who will make the world capable of receiving him, by eliminating all those who cannot. That's what that "tribulation" thing is all about, including the binding of Satan. Of course, plenty of those who are already capable of receiving him will also be removed also -- but they will have plenty of work to do in the Spirit World after they are removed from here. No rest for the weary!

Jesus: Good night, sleep well, I’ll most likely kill you in the morning.

[gav]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Jesus: Good night, sleep well, I’ll most likely kill you in the morning.

Hence, why I'm not a big fan of the whole 7 year tribulation thingy... Human's have been doing their own killing, on an industrial scale, since at least as early as the WWI

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Jesus: Good night, sleep well, I’ll most likely kill you in the morning.

We were all born so we can die. For every birth there is a death. There isn't a one of us who has the promise of survival here in mortality, except for those who happen to survive the Tribulation and break free into that period of peace known as the Millennium; aside from a few exceptions, like Moses and John the Beloved, they alone will be privileged to go from mortality to immortality without tasting of death.

I remember my mom's voice on the phone telling me my dad had died. I remember carrying the body of my dead three-month old granddaughter back to her mother, my daughter, after the coroner had finished his initial on-site examination (it was SIDS). I remember watching my wife breathe her last breath. 

The system is rigged. It is determined. Die now, die later, it doesn't matter. What matters is what you do by your own volition between that point in time that you take your first breath and the point when you take your last. If you manage to make the right choices and repent for the wrong ones during that interval, short or long, it will be well for you in the end.

"Good night, Wesley! Good work! Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."

Although I am still rather puzzled at how Buttercup could accept it without question that her beloved had been outright murdering people for their wealth for five years.  

[Stargazer]

40 minutes ago, gav said:

Hence, why I'm not a big fan of the whole 7 year tribulation thingy... Human's have been doing their own killing, on an industrial scale, since at least as early as the WWI

Or much earlier. Between 1162 (the birth of the Great Khan) and 1227 (his death), the Mongol hordes managed to kill 11% of the entire human species then extant. That would be like killing 800 million people today. 

And who's a fan of the Tribulation,anyway? Seems like a pretty odd thing to be fan of, in any case. Except possibly for these kinds of person:

 

[Stargazer]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:26 PM, The Nehor said:

The playing field of economics is about to be upended so who knows how relevant cost will be.

A recent book by Peter Zeihan, "The End of the World is Just the Beginning", states that the post-WW2 willingness of the US to use its navy to enforce the safety of international ocean commerce is what created our current ability to buy and sell commodities from incredibly distant and disparate parts of the world. And he also states that the American willingness to do so will soon end, triggering a global economic crisis.

From the blurb:

Quote

For generations, everything has been getting faster, better, and cheaper. Finally, we reached the point that almost anything you could ever want could be sent to your home within days—even hours—of when you decided you wanted it.

America made that happen, but now America has lost interest in keeping it going.

Globe-spanning supply chains are only possible with the protection of the U.S. Navy. The American dollar underpins internationalized energy and financial markets. Complex, innovative industries were created to satisfy American consumers. American security policy forced warring nations to lay down their arms. Billions of people have been fed and educated as the American-led trade system spread across the globe.

All of this was artificial. All this was temporary. All this is ending.

I posted an interview of him in Social Hall some time back. I've been reading his book. It is quite convincing.

On 11/22/2022 at 8:26 PM, The Nehor said:

As one person noted increases in tools and automation multiplied jobs. Increases in the ability of machines to perform mental and even creative tasks will kill jobs.

I believe that Stephen Hawking was concerned that AI would eventually destroy us.