Time to Legalize Polygamy?

[nuclearfuels]

Due to declining demographics (Japan's robot babies, herbivore men, etc. whichare reflective not of Japan only but worldwide), is it perhaps time to legalize, normalize, and re-institute this:

 

1. https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/10/04/new-york-judge-the-time-has-arrived-to-legalize-polygamy/
2. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/court-that-first-legalized-same-sex-marriage-now-legalizing-polygamy - pardon the fear-mongering
3. https://www.christianpost.com/voices/new-york-judge-the-time-has-arrived-to-legalize-polygamy.html - pls pardon the fear-mongering
4. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2022/october/a-green-light-for-polygamy-ny-judge-rules-the-time-has-arrived
5. https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/10/new-york-judge-rules-favor-polyamorous-relationships/

 

*Thanks for your patience, Mods. I don't view this as political but last days, demographics, and "take your pills" categorizable 

[teddyaware]

19 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Due to declining demographics (Japan's robot babies, herbivore men, etc. whichare reflective not of Japan only but worldwide), is it perhaps time to legalize, normalize, and re-institute this:

 

1. https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/10/04/new-york-judge-the-time-has-arrived-to-legalize-polygamy/
2. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/court-that-first-legalized-same-sex-marriage-now-legalizing-polygamy - pardon the fear-mongering
3. https://www.christianpost.com/voices/new-york-judge-the-time-has-arrived-to-legalize-polygamy.html - pls pardon the fear-mongering
4. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2022/october/a-green-light-for-polygamy-ny-judge-rules-the-time-has-arrived
5. https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/10/new-york-judge-rules-favor-polyamorous-relationships/

 

*Thanks for your patience, Mods. I don't view this as political but last days, demographics, and "take your pills" categorizable 

I believe there’s no chance the Church will allow the members to participate in plural marriage anytime before the Second Coming because doing so would be viewed by the secular world as the Church putting its stamp of approval on the wicked polyamorous practices that will soon become the norm in a carnal world that’s rapidly ripening in iniquity

Edited October 26, 2022 by teddyaware

[pogi]

30 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Due to declining demographics (Japan's robot babies, herbivore men, etc. whichare reflective not of Japan only but worldwide), is it perhaps time to legalize, normalize, and re-institute this:

 

1. https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/10/04/new-york-judge-the-time-has-arrived-to-legalize-polygamy/
2. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/court-that-first-legalized-same-sex-marriage-now-legalizing-polygamy - pardon the fear-mongering
3. https://www.christianpost.com/voices/new-york-judge-the-time-has-arrived-to-legalize-polygamy.html - pls pardon the fear-mongering
4. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2022/october/a-green-light-for-polygamy-ny-judge-rules-the-time-has-arrived
5. https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/10/new-york-judge-rules-favor-polyamorous-relationships/

 

*Thanks for your patience, Mods. I don't view this as political but last days, demographics, and "take your pills" categorizable 

There was an opinion piece in the Deseret news just a couple weeks ago about this same subject entitled - "Perspective: The courts are coming for monogamy. We should resist".  I was surprised by the irony that was never addressed in the piece.  Should we intentionally and actively fight for the opposite of the direction the world is heading (so as to be "not of the world") even when such position conflicts with our own doctrine and historical practice?  

https://www.deseret.com/2022/10/16/23404884/polyamory-monogamy-marriage-domestic-partnerships-new-york-massachusetts

And here is a predictable and well deserved response published in The Exponent:

https://www.the-exponent.com/consent-power-and-marital-polyamory-look-to-our-own-history-and-practices-first/comment-page-1/

 

[ksfisher]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Should we intentionally and actively fight for the opposite of the direction the world is heading (so as to be "not of the world") even when such position conflicts with our own doctrine and historical practice?  

Our doctrine is the polygamy is only appropriate when permitted by God.

[JLHPROF]

Well President Nelson has two eternal companions.  🤷

[JAHS]

7 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Our doctrine is the polygamy is only appropriate when permitted by God.

Right. It would require a revelation and agreed upon by all 15 apostles and sustained by members of the Church.
I really wonder how many Church members would actually want to be involved in it. Most likely close to zero.

 

[The Nehor]

30 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

I believe there’s no chance the Church will allow the members to participate in plural marriage anytime before the Second Coming because doing so would be viewed by the secular world as the Church putting its stamp of approval on the wicked polyamorous practices that will soon become the norm in a carnal world that’s rapidly ripening in iniquity

So we pick our practices based directly on making them contrasts? Odd choice.

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I really wonder how many Church members would actually want to be involved in it. 

The same number as are willing to follow all the current commandments.

We're pretty stubborn in general.  We can literally read or be given explicit instructions straight from heaven and we will do everything in our power to bend, twist, adjust, rationalize, and get around the instruction.

Why is it?  Serious question.  Most of us love God, love the gospel, and want to keep his commandments and follow him.  So why do we fight so hard to not obey fully, myself included?  I honestly don't completely understand myself at times.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

Our doctrine is the polygamy is only appropriate when permitted by God.

Permitted by God...and law - according to the D&C.  We are supposed to honor, support, sustain, and abide by the law of the land. 

Should not our support of religious liberty persuade us to legalize the practice so no one is ever constrained to break the law of man to obey the law of God?   Did not the early church leaders seek to legalize it for that reason?

Edited October 26, 2022 by pogi

[blackstrap]

Well, if we want to be able to convert some Africans and some Muslims, we should embrace it. 😀

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, pogi said:

Permitted by God...and law - according to the D&C.  We are supposed to honor, support, sustain, and abide by the law of the land. 

Should not our support of religious liberty persuade us to legalize the practice so no one is ever constrained to break the law of man to obey the law of God?   Did not the early church leaders seek to legalize it for that reason?

I 100% reject the idea that we don't need to obey any of God's laws if there's a law of the land blocking it.

But I agree we should work to fix the law to agree with God's laws.

But if there remains unavoidable conflict between the two obeying God is always the correct choice.

[ksfisher]

14 minutes ago, pogi said:

Permitted by God...and law - according to the D&C.  We are supposed to honor, support, sustain, and abide by the law of the land. 

Should not our support of religious liberty persuade us to legalize the practice so no one is ever constrained to break the law of man to obey the law of God?   Did not the early church leaders seek to legalize it for that reason?

For the present, that would seem to be putting the cart before the horse.  If God would like us to reinstitute polygamy I'm certain that He would reveal to us how He would like us to go about doing that.  Until that time there doesn't seem to be any purpose to attempting to legalize it. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

For the present, that would seem to be putting the cart before the horse.  If God would like us to reinstitute polygamy I'm certain that He would reveal to us how He would like us to go about doing that.  Until that time there doesn't seem to be any purpose to attempting to legalize it. 

I don't anticipate God reinstituting it either, but religious liberty shouldn't just apply to us. 

It is actually more like putting the cart after the horse...long after the horse.   The fact is, there was a horse...and there should have been a cart!  If nothing else it should be seen as a symbolic victory to have in place what should have been in place previously, which would have allowed us to freely practice our religion without persecution from the state.  We, more than any other church, should fight for the religious liberty of others (not just FLDS) who religiously practice polygamy today.   

D&C 134:

Quote

We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of ^aworship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish ^bguilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by pogi

[Buckeye]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Due to declining demographics (Japan's robot babies, herbivore men, etc. whichare reflective not of Japan only but worldwide), is it perhaps time to legalize, normalize, and re-institute this:

Do you have any evidence from other polygamous groups that the practice increases birth numbers? It didn’t increase birth numbers for LDS. 

[Tacenda]

If someone like Patrick Mason doesn't believe polygamy was from God, I can't see it being okay for the lds to have to live that again. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Tacenda

[Islander]

6 hours ago, JAHS said:

Right. It would require a revelation and agreed upon by all 15 apostles and sustained by members of the Church.
I really wonder how many Church members would actually want to be involved in it. Most likely close to zero.

 

The challenge there is that we can no longer discern what is revelation and what is policy. From where I stand, they are one of the same, if we take into account that any changes by the First Presidency does not happen in a vacuum. Politics are always attached.

[rodheadlee]

Nah, I'm 68 years old now. It's too late for me. 

[Chum]

4 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Nah, I'm 68 years old now. It's too late for me. 

I might be willing to give Heinlein's line marriages a go. But polygamy? Ick, no.

[JustAnAustralian]

I can't even find one wife. If the polygamy is legalised and the church wants me to practice plural marriage, then it's going to have to put in the work.

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

I can't even find one wife. If the polygamy is legalised and the church wants me to practice plural marriage, then it's going to have to put in the work.

If we make it gender neutral on who can have more than one spouse it will open more dating opportunities.

[Niblo]

On 10/26/2022 at 10:24 PM, blackstrap said:

Well, if we want to be able to convert some Africans and some Muslims, we should embrace it. 😀

It will take more than that.

As you know, a Muslim may take up to four wives.  But only if he can treat each one of them equitably.

In Islam, marriage is a legal contract between a man and a woman. 

Under the marriage contract, the husband has sole financial responsibility for the welfare and maintenance of his wife (or wives), and for that of their children.  He must meet their every need.  His wife – no matter how great her personal wealth – is not obliged to spend so much as a dime (or its equivalent) upon her husband or children.  She may own property and assets in her own right, and her husband has no claim to any of this, save by her freely given consent.

The vast majority of Muslim men have only one wife.

By the way, this is why – under Islamic inheritance laws – a husband inherits twice as much as his wife.  His financial obligations are so much greater than hers. 

 

[provoman]

On 10/26/2022 at 2:25 PM, ksfisher said:

Our doctrine is the polygamy is only appropriate when permitted by God.

In my opinion, God never prohibited it in our time.

God gave the Saints a choice, continue with the practice and the Temple will be shut. Or discontinue so that the Church can flourish.   The Saints made the choice to discontinue.

[provoman]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:50 PM, The Nehor said:

If we make it gender neutral on who can have more than one spouse it will open more dating opportunities.

Doesn't Section 132 make reference that is permitted for both.

[Bernard Gui]

When the definition of marriage was changed to a union between 2 consenting adults the die was cast.  With that definition there is nothing imperative about the number 2.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[provoman]

On 10/26/2022 at 4:12 PM, Tacenda said:

If someone like Patrick Mason doesn't believe polygamy was from God, I can't see it being okay for the lds to have to live that again. 

Interesting, but it does not seem to follow.