Kiev Temple Reopening

[smac97]

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/10/17/23409353/kyiv-ukraine-temple-reopens-to-latter-day-saints

Quote

Eight months after Latter-day Saint leaders suspended operations at the Kyiv Ukraine Temple because Russian troops were massing on Ukraine’s borders, the temple partially re-opened last week.

“Earlier this year, the Kyiv temple was temporarily closed,” church spokeswoman Irene Caso said. “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has carefully evaluated the current circumstances and decided to resume — on a limited basis — the sacred religious ceremonies in the temple. Church members are able to make appointments to participate in temple ceremonies, which began October 14, 2022.”

The church did not provide additional details about the limited nature of the reopening.
...

The Kyiv temple, which sits on the western side of the city, has been important in the region because it is the only Latter-day Saint temple between Germany and the Pacific Rim. For now, temple attendance likely will be limited to Ukrainians due to travel issues related to the ongoing conflict.

A bright spot in an otherwise terrible situation.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Kenngo1969]

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall listening in on prayer circles in the Kiev Ukraine Temple (at least, it would if I could understand Ukrainian ), that's for sure.  My brother learned Russian at the DLI and was in intelligence in the National Guard.  Maybe I'll have to ask him!   I understand there isn't that much difference between spoken Russian and spoken Ukrainian.

I wonder what information the Church of Jesus Christ has access to that led its leaders to conclude that it is advisable to resume Temple operations.  (Is Elder Kyrylo Pokhylko, the Church official responsible for overseeing Ukraine, the lone Church official in such a capacity who has a military adviser? )  We live in interesting times, that's for sure!

Слава Україні!*

Sláva Ukrayíni!*

And most of all, peace to Ukraine and to its people.*

*Speaking of which, these particular sentiments seem especially apt when speaking of Temple service.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall listening in on prayer circles in the Kiev Ukraine Temple (at least, it would if I could understand Ukrainian ), that's for sure.  My brother learned Russian at the DLI and was in intelligence in the National Guard.  Maybe I'll have to ask him!   I understand there isn't that much difference between spoken Russian and spoken Ukrainian.

I wonder what information the Church of Jesus Christ has access to that led its leaders to conclude that it is advisable to resume Temple operations.  (Is Elder Kyrylo Pokhylko, the Church official responsible for overseeing Ukraine, the lone Church official in such a capacity who has a military adviser? )  We live in interesting times, that's for sure!

Слава Україні!*

Sláva Ukrayíni!*

And most of all, peace to Ukraine and to its people.*

*Speaking of which, these particular sentiments seem especially apt when speaking of Temple service.

My parents spoke fluent Polish and they could understand spoken Russian pretty well; Slavic languages are pretty similar.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lech,_Czech,_and_Rus'

Edited October 18, 2022 by mfbukowski

[The Nehor]

My guess is that they are convinced that the threat of conquest of the city has passed. While the city is still in danger from the current kamikaze drone and crude long range attacks on civilian infrastructure  the temple is probably as safe as anywhere else in the city.

[Tacenda]

President Zelensky's book of war time speeches to raise funds for Ukraine. Something I will certainly buy, if anyone else is interested.  https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/10/18/zelensky-to-publish-book-of-wartime-speeches-in-december/

“Supporting Ukraine is not a trend, a meme or a viral challenge," Zelensky said in a statement released by Crown. “It is not a force to rapidly spread across the planet and then just as rapidly disappear. If you want to understand who we are, where we are from, what we want and where we are going, you need to learn more about who we are. This book will help you do just that.”

The proceeds will go to United24, the initiative Zelensky launched to coordinate charitable donations to Ukraine. Zelensky added that he has chosen 16 speeches that he hopes will help readers “understand Ukrainians: our aspirations, our principles, and our values”.

[Eschaton]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

My guess is that they are convinced that the threat of conquest of the city has passed. While the city is still in danger from the current kamikaze drone and crude long range attacks on civilian infrastructure  the temple is probably as safe as anywhere else in the city.

Or at the very least the temple is no more dangerous than the grocery store or their own homes. The Russians deliberately target civilian targets in an effort to get the kills that they can't seem to get against actual military targets. But Kiev is probably relatively safe. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

I have a report from an online acquaintance in Finland.  There is no shortage of bad blood remaining between Finland and Russia, what with 2-400,000 casualties back in WWII, and the labor camps and all that.

Anyway, my acquaintance in Finland noted on a trip to the temple, she saw a Finnish sealer sitting with a Ukranian refugee brother on one side as a witness, and a Russian brother on the other side, all dressed in white, serving the dead, uniting families together for eternity.

She said this: "They feel forgotten. We've gotten that message via sister Eubanks - don't know how officially and what way - that the saints in Russia feel forgotten and down. So if any of you have any connections with any Russian saints, I believe any words of love and encouragement are appreciated. We're doing some stuff here to do that."

[The Nehor]

Finland is still concerned about another go at the Winter War. I think they would have hammered Russia to pieces more quickly than Ukraine did. Now with NATO membership in the cards they are much safer. Outside of Poland they are probably the (potential) NATO nation with the biggest grudge against Russia. There was talk of trying to get their territory back they lost in the Winter War but realistically most people in Finland don’t want it back.

Fun Fact: Finland being at war with the Allies in WW2 was one of the few cases of democracies being at war with each other and even though they were at war there was almost no actual conflict between Finland and the Western powers in the Allies.

[LoudmouthMormon]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Fun Fact: Finland being at war with the Allies in WW2 was one of the few cases of democracies being at war with each other and even though they were at war there was almost no actual conflict between Finland and the Western powers in the Allies.

I think I've heard that before.  I wonder - is there a list somewhere of times when warring nations both contained Latter-day Saints in the armed forces of opposing sides?

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I think I've heard that before.  I wonder - is there a list somewhere of times when warring nations both contained Latter-day Saints in the armed forces of opposing sides?

Both World Wars had members of the church on opposing sides, Germany had the most members in Europe pre WW2-IIRC they had 13,000 and England was 2nd with 10,000

[mfbukowski]

On 10/18/2022 at 1:31 AM, The Nehor said:

My guess is that they are convinced that the threat of conquest of the city has passed. While the city is still in danger from the current kamikaze drone and crude long range attacks on civilian infrastructure  the temple is probably as safe as anywhere else in the city.

Yeah. For me that's the problem!

I trust the church, but man, I would not be going to THAT temple for quite a while

[Kenngo1969]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:46 PM, mfbukowski said:

Yeah. For me that's the problem!

I trust the church, but man, I would not be going to THAT temple for quite a while

If I were in Kyiv (or in the Temple's district), from a temporal perspective, I would consider the Temple at least as safe as anywhere else in the country at the moment.  And from a spiritual perspective, I would consider it among the safest places I could be.  (I realize that getting to the Temple might be a different matter entirely, but, still, I think the same principle applies.  See Matthew 10:28.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[Hamba Tuhan]

22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

If I were in Kiev ...

If I were in Kyiv, I would be queued up to get inside.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[carbon dioxide]

On 10/20/2022 at 12:46 PM, mfbukowski said:

Yeah. For me that's the problem!

I trust the church, but man, I would not be going to THAT temple for quite a while

If you are old and ready to die, what better way to die than doing temple work.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

If you are old and ready to die, what better way to die than doing temple work.

I agree and think my reply was short sighted.   I guess I was replying as an ordinary family guy with a couple of kids etc, not as I am now.   It would obviously be an individual choice.

I personally, now that I actually think about it, could easily choose to go simply as an act of defiance and an affirmation of my faith.

Ok, for as I am now, sign me up. 

Hmmm...... wonder how long it would take me to learn the initiatories in Ukrainian....

 

[mfbukowski]

On 10/20/2022 at 4:24 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

If I were in Kiev (or in the Temple's district), from a temporal perspective, I would consider the Temple at least as safe as anywhere else in the country at the moment.  And from a spiritual perspective, I would consider it among the safest places I could be.  (I realize that getting to the Temple might be a different matter entirely, but, still, I think the same principle applies.  See Matthew 10:28.

I think this will make it a target, but for some it could be a patriotic choice anyway.

[Kenngo1969]

53 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I agree and think my reply was short sighted.   I guess I was replying as an ordinary family guy with a couple of kids etc, not as I am now.   It would obviously be an individual choice.

I personally, now that I actually think about it, could easily choose to go simply as an act of defiance and an affirmation of my faith.

Ok, for as I am now, sign me up. 

Hmmm...... wonder how long it would take me to learn the initiatories in Ukrainian....

 

Meh, they could give you a phonetic Ukrainian-to-English "cheat sheet" and you'd be good.     (And before you "Pooh-pooh" that idea, keep in mind, it works pretty well for the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square.  )

Edited October 22, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Meh, they could give you a phonetic Ukrainian-to-English "cheat sheet" and you'd be good.     (And before you "Pooh-pooh" that idea, keep in mind, it works pretty well for the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square.  )

They are already used.

But to get the nuances of pronunciation down, it still takes a lot of practice with native speakers.  You wanna try doing Chinese with about 10 minutes preparation, with a first time temple attendee who will not understand a word you say?

No bueni siggnirry. 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by mfbukowski

[Hamba Tuhan]

15 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I ... could easily choose to go simply as an act of defiance and an affirmation of my faith.

This.

And if things continue going the way they are, the day will come for us when an affirmation of faith is likewise an act of defiance.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Kenngo1969]

8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

They are already used.

But to get the nuances of pronunciation down, it still takes a lot of practice with native speakers.  You wanna try doing Chinese with about 10 minutes preparation, with a first time temple attendee who will not understand a word you say?

No bueni siggnirry. 

 

You could always pray for the gift of tongues.  We believe in that, too, you know!  

[Rain]

On 10/18/2022 at 6:22 AM, Tacenda said:

President Zelensky's book of war time speeches to raise funds for Ukraine. Something I will certainly buy, if anyone else is interested.  https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/10/18/zelensky-to-publish-book-of-wartime-speeches-in-december/

“Supporting Ukraine is not a trend, a meme or a viral challenge," Zelensky said in a statement released by Crown. “It is not a force to rapidly spread across the planet and then just as rapidly disappear. If you want to understand who we are, where we are from, what we want and where we are going, you need to learn more about who we are. This book will help you do just that.”

When we went to Bethlehem we asked a shop keeper how to get back to Israel.  There were 2 ways from there. He told us, but suggested that we go one way where we would be walking along the wall.  He said if we "really wanted to understand" the people we needed to go that way.

Well, that day had already had a couple of mishaps and the wall didn't have any interest to us - a wall?  We had seen it driving on the other side. It was tall, but why see it?

Well, we ended up getting turned around.  Went through a market that was very much not a tourist market.  Saw places of such poverty.  When we realized we were turned around we stopped for directions and the closest way from there was the way the shopkeeper had suggested. 

As we walked along the wall we saw the paintings,  graffiti and words asking for help.  We began to understand better.  When I came home I read about it and found the conflict was not as easy to choose sides as I thought. It was complicated. It was such a haunting experience. We didn't understand all the complications walking along the wall, but we began to understand their feelings.

I didn't realize how much it affected each of us till my son wrote about it in one of his school papers 5 years later.  It hadn't seemed to affect him earlier when he was much younger so I didn't realize how much he had understood. 

On 10/18/2022 at 6:22 AM, Tacenda said:

The proceeds will go to United24, the initiative Zelensky launched to coordinate charitable donations to Ukraine. Zelensky added that he has chosen 16 speeches that he hopes will help readers “understand Ukrainians: our aspirations, our principles, and our values”.

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Rain

[Bernard Gui]

On 10/18/2022 at 7:24 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

I think I've heard that before.  I wonder - is there a list somewhere of times when warring nations both contained Latter-day Saints in the armed forces of opposing sides?

How about two countries at war that have temples within their borders.

[Kenngo1969]

I'm certain that there are plenty of hard feelings between Ukrainians and Russians, and I believe that only the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ can bridge and mend those rifts.  (Come to think of it, what better place to mend those rifts and to be reminded of what is really important than as Ukrainians and Russians serve side by side, perhaps, in the Temple?) 

It's worth remembering, too, that, ultimately, we don't consider Jesus Christ to be a King only in some abstract, metaphorical sense (or even, solely, in a spiritual sense, as important as that is).  In the end, it won't matter how much President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is right and how much Vladimir Putin is wrong, Christ will be the King of Kings, head of His government in the very same way that other kings throughout history have wielded power and have ruled.  In very deed, He will be Our Ruler.  (I know there are may pitfalls inherent in saying this, but, notwithstanding those pitfalls, I am tempted to say, "Hasten the day!")

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/global-histories/russia/ru-overview?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/global-histories/ukraine/ua-overview?lang=eng

As you go to the above links, be sure to hit that right arrow to go through all of the pages relevant to the history of the Church of Jesus Christ in these places.  God bless the Saints, both Ukrainian and Russian.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Kenngo1969