Conference Discussions

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Is it okay to have tattoos and piercings now? Many out there online are saying it's okay now, but just didn't believe it.

 

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Remember when HT/VT was replaced with ministering?  I think the idea is to grow, not reduce.  I’ll be clear, I don’t think tattoos are wrong.  I like them.  But I sense our first reaction isn’t supposed to be to schedule a tat, it’s to examine how to become more holy. 
 
and if someone gets a tat this week or this year, who cares. 

Having read through the new “For the Strength of Youth,” I don’t get the sense that piercings and tattoos are now approved or even tolerable. Rather, the motivation for avoiding them should be a matter of faith and values rather than a legalistic adherence to a list of do’s and don’t s. 
 

As I read through it, I thought back to the episode in 2020 on the BYU-Provo campus, in which a revision to the honor code was widely misconstrued as giving approval to romantic homosexual behavior, necessitating a disavowal in a clarification from Church headquarters. If people are out there proclaiming that it’s now OK to get tattoos or piercings for more than one set of earrings, I fear the same thing is already happening on a wider scale as happened at BYU in 2020. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Is it okay to have tattoos and piercings now? Many out there online are saying it's okay now, but just didn't believe it.

Regarding piercings, it may be worthwhile to repeat what I wrote on this forum almost 11 years ago:

Quote

It's been a few years now, and I don't have my journals on me to help get the words right, but, for what it's worth, I'll share a personal experience on this topic. Back when I was an undergrad student in America in the 90s, Pres Hinckley visited my uni for a fireside one Sunday evening. I and my LDS housemates were pretty excited, so we got to the concert hall early in order to get good seats right near the front. Pres Hinckley began the formal portion of his talk by taking out of his suit pocket a letter from a Church member and reading out a part of it. It was from a sister who wished to know what the Church policy was on earrings. She said she hoped to have a third piercing, but her husband wasn't keen. Because I was up front, I could see Pres Hinckley roll his eyes as he folded the letter back up and returned it to his pocket. And then he said something along the lines of, 'Brethren and Sisters, the Church has no policy on earrings, and I hope we never have to have such a policy. The Lord doesn't care how many holes a woman wants to put in her ears. He does care about the quality of her heart.' (If I had my journals on me, I'd be able to provide a more accurate paraphrase since I wrote it down, but that's very close.)

He then spent the rest of his talk discoursing on Matthew 23:23-24. He said that one reason we tend to focus on things that don't matter much in place of the 'weightier matters of the law' is that it makes us feel like we are doing something important when, in fact, we aren't doing anything meaningful at all. Church members, he lamented, wish to have a 'policy' about every little thing. It was a great sermon.

Regarding tattoos, I am the only person in my household without them. 

One of my favourite temple experiences occurred when I was at the same university mentioned above. It was a busy endowment session, so I got stuck in the back row. Then the session got delayed. Finally, in walked two men, who sat next to me in the only remaining seats. Both of them had beards that reached their laps and visible tattoos creeping above the collars and out the cuffs of their temple shirts.

I waited in the Celestial Room in order to follow them to the change room, where I struck up a conversation with them. They were both (ex?) bikies from Oakland, California. The missionaries had given a Book of Mormon to one of them. He read it and then gave it to his mate. Both had been baptised a year earlier.

To celebrate the anniversary of their baptisms, they had received their endowments in the Oakland Temple. As they explained to me, they walked out of the temple with such a spiritual buzz that they could hardly wait to go back. But instead of returning to Oakland, they hopped on their bikes and started a 'temple crawl' of the American West.

They talked excitedly about how much finding the Church, receiving the priesthood, and obtaining temple blessings had blessed and changed their lives. In the car park, they hopped on their Harleys and rode off into the literal sunset.

[CV75]

7 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

To be fair I do. His talk really spoke to me and my circumstance. I was recently in the hospital to manage a concern I've had before that led to serious health problems that haunted me for the better part of a year. I told the doc/nurse there that I manage concerns with an increase of sarcasm and humor, to help them realize that that's how I cope and get through things, not that this wasn't serious at the same time. I got a surgery later to reduce the likelihood of the my worst fears coming true and the entire time leading up to it, I was cracking jokes and sarcastic comments with some of the docs/anesthesiologists. 

I listened to the talk and I did chuckle a little (it was a sharp turn in tone though). For me at least laughter and pain aren't all that separated it makes the latter far more bearable. I'm assuming there were plenty of people like me in the audience. And Morrison may be a bit like that too. 

 

With luv,

BD

 

Sure, there are all kinds of differing ways busy parents process their role in the accidental death of their children, and how they relate lessons learned the hard way years later. So, I don't judge him (or the audience as I originally did) for that. I think the central message of his talk was spot-on (e.g., empathizing with the pain of others, accessing faith in and grace from the Lord during trials, etc.).

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, SteveO said:

President Nelson’s talk was an absolute powerhouse.  That’ll be talked about for a long time.

Which one and what did you like about it?

[MorningStar]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

We had to get out of Washington. Too crazy!

Elder Holland met with mayor of Tacoma yesterday. 

So it’s actually going to be in Tacoma and not Gig Harbor or something?

We’ll be here at least until my dad is gone. My best friend has prayed many times about moving out of the state and the answer is always no. 

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

Having read through the new “For the Strength of Youth,” I don’t get the sense that piercings and tattoos are now approved or even tolerable. Rather, the motivation for avoiding them should be a matter of faith and values rather than a legalistic adherence to a list of do’s and don’t s. 
 

As I read through it, I thought back to the episode in 2020 on the BYU-Provo campus, in which a revision to the honor code was widely misconstrued as giving approval to romantic homosexual behavior, necessitating a disavowal in a clarification from Church headquarters. If people are out there proclaiming that it’s now OK to get tattoos or piercings for more than one set of earrings, I fear the same thing is already happening on a wider scale as happened at BYU in 2020. 

That is what some are saying, that's why I asked because I haven't read through the new FTSOY booklet. 

[Teancum]

10 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

I remember a talk Hinckley gave at a temple dedication that had serious goodbye vibes. He didn't die for at least 5 more years. Nelson is 98 though....he's aging astoundingly well from the looks of it, so I'm hoping he'll get a few more good years. 

He does seem pretty robust.  But at that age you can be fine and then just go to sleep one night and not wake up.  I wish him well.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

7 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The Lord doesn't care how many holes a woman wants to put in her ears.

-[quoting a president Hinkley fireside in the 90’s]

Also president Hinkley: “The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve have declared that we discourage tattoos and also “the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes.” We do not, however, take any position “on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings”—one pair.”

🤔

Edited October 3, 2022 by SeekingUnderstanding

[SteveO]

18 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Also president Hinkley: “The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve have declared that we discourage tattoos and also “the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes.” We do not, however, take any position “on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings”—one pair.”

🤔

 

18 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

we discourage tattoos and also “the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes.

Next

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 minutes ago, SteveO said:

 

Next

Well which is it. Does God “discourage” it to the point of dropping a fiancé with multiple piercings as taught by Prophet and Seers in general conference? Or does he not care (per Hamba’s report)?

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, MorningStar said:

So it’s actually going to be in Tacoma and not Gig Harbor or something?

We’ll be here at least until my dad is gone. My best friend has prayed many times about moving out of the state and the answer is always no. 

Washington needs your "leaven," then.   

[SteveO]

5 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Well which is it. Does God “discourage” it to the point of dropping a fiancé with multiple piercings as taught by Prophet and Seers in general conference? Or does he not care (per Hamba’s report)?

I believe it was a talk on discernment.  And it was stated that the issue wasn’t about piercings.  You’re exhibit a for both the talk and Hamba’s report…🧐

Edited October 3, 2022 by SteveO

[HappyJackWagon]

27 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Well which is it. Does God “discourage” it to the point of dropping a fiancé with multiple piercings as taught by Prophet and Seers in general conference? Or does he not care (per Hamba’s report)?

"Discourage" is interesting.

Most things in the church are more than just recommendations. There are usually consequences affixed, and the behaviors are usually a line in the sand. I think about things like the Word of Wisdom. It has become a commandment to NEVER drink coffee, tea, alcohol instead of a more moderate recommendation to avoid drunkenness etc. I don't know that the church teaches moderation in things very well. You either CAN do them or you CAN"T. The church doesn't usually make recommendations, but I think it would do very well to move more that direction.

[Rain]

6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

"Discourage" is interesting.

Most things in the church are more than just recommendations. There are usually consequences affixed, and the behaviors are usually a line in the sand. I think about things like the Word of Wisdom. It has become a commandment to NEVER drink coffee, tea, alcohol instead of a more moderate recommendation to avoid drunkenness etc. I don't know that the church teaches moderation in things very well. You either CAN do them or you CAN"T. The church doesn't usually make recommendations, but I think it would do very well to move more that direction.

It has already started in some areas as mentioned in this thread.

[MiserereNobis]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

You can say that again! It’s so different in Kentucky….in a good way. 

It’s the bluegrass!

[T-Shirt]

12 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

We had to get out of Washington. Too crazy!

I understand.  I've been here most of my life and it is getting harder and harder to stick around.  My wife and I are toying with the idea of leaving in a few years.  We'll see.

[pogi]

15 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

You can say that again! It’s so different in Kentucky….in a good way. 

Just don't wander into the woods alone...

4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

It’s the bluegrass!

 

[Kenngo1969]

@pogi

I could've gone my entire life and been perfectly content never to have even so much as heard of Deliverance.

Uyyyy ... Veyyyy!   

I realize that's what put Burt Reynolds on directors' radar, but I think I'll stick with Burt's later, more vacuous, fluffier work (Smokey and the Bandit, and others of that ilk) thank you!

Besides, Mi Hermano Bernardo is a fiddler!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCAFfX_va_I

[Sorry.  Couldn't embed due to copyright, but very much worth a watch and a listen: You can always come back here when you're done!]

Edited October 3, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[Bernard Gui]

22 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Is it okay to have tattoos and piercings now? Many out there online are saying it's okay now, but just didn't believe it.

Isn’t that like spraying graffiti on and drilling holes in the Temple walls?

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, MorningStar said:

So it’s actually going to be in Tacoma and not Gig Harbor or something?

We’ll be here at least until my dad is gone. My best friend has prayed many times about moving out of the state and the answer is always no. 

We are trying to guess where it will be. Gig Harbor is a definite possibility because it would better serve the folks on the Peninsula, but then the rest of the Pierce County people would have to deal with the Narrows Bridge.

Somewhere near a freeway, but not near the Joint Base McCord/Lewis flight paths? Maybe Puyallup/South Hill? Too much traffic on Meridian.  Federal Way /Auburn? Horrendous crime and traffic.

What do you think?

We were directed by the Spirit to where we are now, but the reasons did not become clear until we were about 6 months into the move. So many miracles that my DIL once said, “Stop the miracles! I can’t take any more miracles!”

Edited October 4, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

It’s the bluegrass!

Actually, both western Washington and Kentucky are lush green areas. Our back yard is 10 acres of bluegrass and tree-covered rolling hills. We never water our yards. Plus I get to play fiddle with some great local bluegrass musicians up in McKee.

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

I understand.  I've been here most of my life and it is getting harder and harder to stick around.  My wife and I are toying with the idea of leaving in a few years.  We'll see.

Kentucky ain’t so bad…..

Do you mind sharing where you are?

Edited October 4, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

@pogi

I could've gone my entire life and been perfectly content never to have even so much as heard of Deliverance.

Uyyyy ... Veyyyy!   

I realize that's what put Burt Reynolds on directors' radar, but I think I'll stick with Burt's later, more vacuous, fluffier work (Smokey and the Bandit, and others of that ilk) thank you!

Besides, Mi Hermano Bernardo is a fiddler!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCAFfX_va_I

[Sorry.  Couldn't embed due to copyright, but very much worth a watch and a listen: You can always come back here when you're done!]

Those guys are really good.

Orange Blossom Special is so much fun to play. If I can figure out how, I’ll post a recording of our band Uncle Lumpy and the Friends of Calvin Coolidge playing it at Snowbird Ski Resort. in 1972.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

41 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Isn’t that like spraying graffiti on and drilling holes in the Temple walls?

Is that what we call the stained glass windows and beautiful stone work at the temples?

Edited October 4, 2022 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Isn’t that like spraying graffiti on and drilling holes in the Temple walls?

Is this a joke, I thought it was funny if so. Like saying our body is a temple.