Let’s Analyze the Christian Nationalist’s Officially Stated Positions

[teddyaware]

16 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

So, I consider myself a pretty good example of an uber-right wing Christian conservative, but after reading these 10 points, please don't ever call me a Christian nationalist.

I'm totally down with 1, 2, 4, and 9, and will happily defend them in debate or discussion, whenever I see the point of doing so.

3: I'm guessing my list of "our rights as Christians" wouldn't be the same list a CN would have.  Another way to put it, I can't think of a single right on my list, that would be exclusive to only Christians.

5: I've been watching the culture change the definitions of words for a decade now.  A good way to destroy a nation, is to erode the cohesiveness and universality of it's dominant language.  To me, that's a bigger issue, than arguing about what sex and gender mean.

6: I'll happily argue and defend this one as well, but I won't be going about removing rights of people who disagree.  Two exceptions: The tax code - I'm ok with favorable tax conditions for married couples.  And I'm totally for policies/laws that encourage two parent households for children.  Key word "encourage".  

7: Good, except it should include the concept that just laws can remove an individual's ability to own guns as a consequense of their actions.

8: I believe it.  Imma vote for it, and argue it.  I'm not going to link capitalism to Christianity.  I'll link it to the constitution and largely free markets as the holy trinity of economic perfection.

10: There are plenty of ideas that threaten my happy little constitution/nation/culture.  There's a percentage of Islamic thought that would qualify, and a percentage that wouldn't.  I'm ok with Dan Peterson's take on things - the vast majority of Islamic thought probably isn't a threat.  It's friggin' admirable to see folks living the 5 pillars.  Halal is a pretty admirable 
 

As the one who initiated this discussion, I hope you and the other participants will respect my desire to discus each of the 10 mission statement positions of the Christian Nationalists one at a time, in ascending order. I will start a new thread on Christian Nationalist position number 2 when this presentdiscussion on position one winds down.

[Scott Lloyd]

23 hours ago, Calm said:

I am not sure having God’s name on money honors him given what uses so much money is put to.  Shows more superficial worship imo. 

It could be viewed as aspirational. 
 

In pioneer-era Utah, Zion’s Cooperative Mercantile Institution (ZCMI) carried the slogan “Holiness to the Lord.”  Those are the same words that are on our temples today. I view this as significant. It was as though the Latter-day Saints in the early settlements of the territory wanted the glorification of God to pervade everything they did, even buying and selling, the production of goods and services, etc. It harkens back to what the Lord has said about all things to Him being spiritual and that He has not at any time given a commandment that was temporal. 
 

http://themormoneagle.blogspot.com/2011/07/self-reliance-and-industriousness.html?m=1

Yes, we fall short of that sentiment all the time, but that doesn’t mean we should abandon it. Again, it’s aspirational. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[teddyaware]

17 hours ago, pogi said:

There is nothing wrong with this belief.  It is the idea that those who subscribe to this belief should receive a privileged position and treatment in the public square that is the problem.  Those who are not Christian would not receive full religious liberty. 

How would you like to be a Christian living under an Islamic Nationalist government, aka the Taliban?  Do you really not see the problem with religious nationalism???

For why many Christians view Christian nationalism as an evil, see here;

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/february-web-only/what-is-christian-nationalism.html

My point in having this discussion is to focus specifically on whether or not the 10 formally stated Christian Nationalist positions have any merit on their own. A discussion as to whether or not the organization means well will come later, after each of their 10 mission statement positions has been given its own discussion thread. I believe each of their positions deserves a fair hearing and analysis before any judgements are made as to the group’s motivations and methods. I simply want to know if believing Latter-Day Saints agree or disagree with the items in the group’s mission statement. If you don’t want to participate in this highly focused, systematic discussion of Christian Nationalist stated beliefs, that’s fine, but I hope you’ll allow those who are willing fo participate in this methodical exercise to do so without throwing monkey wrenches into the discussion. But based on what you say above, I’ll put you down as one who is in agreement with official position number 1.

[teddyaware]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

In other White Supremacy news:

LOL

Off topic and impertinent. If you don’t want to participate in this methodical exercise as I’ve described it, I hope you’ll be respectful and stay out of it

[SeekingUnderstanding]

20 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

10 formally stated Christian Nationalist positions

Wouldn’t you first have to establish your source is situated to “formally” state the 10 positions of all Christian Nationalists?

[Benjamin McGuire]

43 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

As the one who initiated this discussion, I hope you and the other participants will respect my desire to discus each of the 10 mission statement positions of the Christian Nationalists one at a time, in ascending order. I will start a new thread on Christian Nationalist position number 2 when this present discussion on position one winds down.

I am not sure this works. Christian Nationalism isn't simply the sum of the parts.

Consider the problem created by points 6 and 8:

Quote

 

6: The family is the cornerstone of Western Civilization and should be protected from government intrusion and manipulation.

8: Capitalism is the best system for social development and Christian Charity the world has ever known. It must be preserved and promoted as the solution to the social and economic problems caused by Communism.

 

The days of the family as the cornerstone of western civilization is largely over. The causes of this change are mainly due to our capitalist system. In its need for growth, capitalism has been responsible for the mass entrance of women into the workforce, the near total decline of the single family income, and a host of other factors like the massive increase in the costs (above inflation) of healthcare and education. Virtually all pathways to restore the family as the cornerstone (while leaving capitalism in its current state) involve government intrusion and manipulation (welfare reform, abortion restrictions, changes to the tax code, etc). There are lots of other issues of course, but I simply wanted to point out this list isn't a set of independent notions - it is a list of talking points using a set of ideas that are meant to be understood in specific ways by those who follow this ideology. Without that understanding, there is a lot of internal contradiction in this list.

So can we really discuss them individually and stay within the context of Christian Nationalism?

[teddyaware]

28 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Wouldn’t you first have to establish your source is situated to “formally” state the 10 positions of all Christian Nationalists?

You make a very good point! After all the discussion on this board concerning the alleged dangers posed by the Christian Nationalists, I concluded that there must be a formal Christian Nationalist organization somewhere in the United States. So I conducted a Google search and the website for the Christian Nationalist Alliance was the only thing I could find that fit the bill. Little did I realize that the website has been defunct for five years and that there is no official Christian Nationalist organization anywhere in the United States! As it turns out, Christian Nationalism is a pejorative label that’s one of many labels, like Nazi and white supremacist,  being applied to anyone thinks like Ezra Taft Benson and J. Ruben Clark. In fact, when you go to the Wikipedia article on Christian Nationalism there’s one scant paragraph devoted to Christian Nationalism in the United States, and it only refers to ideas and not to any organizations that fit the label. So it turns out that this idea of mine, to have a paced, methodical discussion on the “official tenets” of Christian Nationalism, is ill founded.

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

so there’s not much point in having a discussion with someone who rejects everything the Latter-Day believe

Isn't this a dialogue board?

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

You’re point of view is more like that of a barking dog on the sidelines of this debate.

You're a real class act, teddy.

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

As the one who initiated this discussion, I hope you and the other participants will respect my desire to discus each of the 10 mission statement positions of the Christian Nationalists one at a time, in ascending order. I will start a new thread on Christian Nationalist position number 2 when this presentdiscussion on position one winds down.

It's a silly method. Of course Christians are going to accept point 1, so having a discussion on that is pointless. It also deliberately overlooks the glaring problems of Christian Nationalism taken as a whole. It would be like taking the 25 points of the 1920 Nazi party platform (link goes to the Holocaust Museum) and discussing them one at a time. We'll start at the first one:

Quote

1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination.

That doesn't sound so bad, does it? Shouldn't Germans have self-determination?

And no one better jump ahead to number 4 where Jews are denied citizenship! We're taking these one at a time!

Edited September 21, 2022 by MiserereNobis

[pogi]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

My point in having this discussion is to focus specifically on whether or not the 10 formally stated Christian Nationalist positions have any merit on their own. A discussion as to whether or not the organization means well will come later, after each of their 10 mission statement positions has been given its own discussion thread. I believe each of their positions deserves a fair hearing and analysis before any judgements are made as to the group’s motivations and methods. I simply want to know if believing Latter-Day Saints agree or disagree with the items in the group’s mission statement. If you don’t want to participate in this highly focused, systematic discussion of Christian Nationalist stated beliefs, that’s fine, but I hope you’ll allow those who are willing fo participate in this methodical exercise to do so without throwing monkey wrenches into the discussion. But based on what you say above, I’ll put you down as one who is in agreement with official position number 1.

All of these positions are intended to be viewed through a religious nationalistic filter.  Perhaps you should start by discussing “Christian Nationalism” and how that affects the interpretation and application of these positions on society?   Because It is impossible to isolate these positions and discuss them independent of the nationalistic angle and pretend to understand what Christian Nationalism is all about.  
 

Start with the core principle of religious nationalism and see if it has any merit.  Else we are wasting our time discussing principles out of proper context.

Perhaps we can start with what our leaders said about “nationalism” in last general conference.  
 

Taking these points out of context is not helpful.

Edited September 21, 2022 by pogi

[LoudmouthMormon]

[Removed my response to Calm on #5, due to OP's wishes.  See you in 4 posts, @Calm!  :)]

Edited September 21, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:29 PM, teddyaware said:

If anyone attempts to hijack the discussion by jumping ahead to any of the other official Christian Nationalist beliefs before we get to them, I’ll shut down the discussion.

Heh.  Yeah, good luck with that "I will control what you say" stuff.  I'll play along, but I'm not hopeful you'll be as successful as you might hope.

 

Quote

“Our Positions:

The Christian Nationalist Alliance affirms the following:

1. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior of man.”

I, someone who does very much NOT identify as a Christian Nationalist, also affirm this.

Edited September 21, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

All of these positions are intended to be viewed through a religious nationalistic filter.  Perhaps you should start by discussing “Christian Nationalism” and how that affects the interpretation and application of these positions on society?   Because It is impossible to isolate these positions and discuss them independent of the nationalistic angle and pretend to understand what Christian Nationalism is all about.  
 

Start with the core principle of religious nationalism and see if it has any merit.  Else we are wasting our time discussing principles out of proper context.

Perhaps we can start with what our leaders said about “nationalism” in last general conference.  
 

Taking these points out of context is not helpful.

In case you missed it, in my last post I revealed that I’ve learned there is no Christian Nationalist organization in the United States. I didn’t realize that the Christian Nationalist Alliance website, from which I was getting the information I was posting on this thread, has been defunct for 5 years. And I’ve also learned that there never was an actual Christian National Alliance organization that was sponsoring the website.

The fact is that there isn’t a single Christian Nationalist organization existing in the United States. Therefore the whole premise of this thread— that there’s a an official Christian Nationalist organization in the United States with officially held Christian Nationalist positions — isn’t true and for this reason I see no point in continuing my proposed slow paced, systematic inquiry. I’m out of this thread because it’s premise has proven to be a phantom. If others here want to continue to discuss Christian Nationalism as a label without an organization, be my guest. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by teddyaware

[Teancum]

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

You don’t believe in Jesus Christ

Verdict is out or me on that one.

 

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

 

and reject the Book of Mormon, a record that testifies if the modern-day American gentiles refuse to have faith in Jesus Christ and serve him in righteousness they will be utterly destroyed,

Right.  Iam highly skeptical that the BoM is what is claimed for it.

 

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

 

so there’s not much point in having a discussion with someone who rejects everything the Latter-Day believe.

Dude you really don't know me, know what I think, know what I am open to, etc.  Just climb off your arrogant self righteous high horse. Are you like this in real life?  Do you have friends?

 

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

 

I would prefer this discussion to be among believing Latter-Day Saint to determine, from the varied points of view of sincere believers, if the written tenets of Christian Nationalism are out of harmony with the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Well unless there is some rule that you as the thread originator can ban someone from a thread I plan on discussing it.  It is an relevant issue.   So to bad. If I want to post I will.  And I certainly know as much and LDS teachings as you do so  I can discus from that perspective as well as you or anyone here.

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

 

You’re point of view is more like that of a barking dog on the sidelines of this debate.

And yours is that of an over the top self righteous fanatic.  And Christian Nationalists don't think you are a Christian.  Yet you seem to want to champion their cause. Odd that is.  But no surprise. At least based on your posts you seem like you might fit their mold.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

As it turns out, Christian Nationalism is a pejorative label that’s one of many labels, like Nazi and white supremacist,  being applied to anyone thinks like Ezra Taft Benson and J. Ruben Clark.

CFR that they only have to think like Benson and Clark and not have additional beliefs that take them far afield of the beliefs of those two to be labeled as Christian Nationalists.  To be clear, I am not asking you to demonstrate those labeled as Christian Nationalist have some beliefs in common with Benson and Clark or Latter-day Saints in general, I am asking you to show having those shared beliefs is enough to get labeled Christian Nationalist.

[pogi]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

You make a very good point! After all the discussion on this board concerning the alleged dangers posed by the Christian Nationalists, I concluded that there must be a formal Christian Nationalist organization somewhere in the United States. So I conducted a Google search and the website for the Christian Nationalist Alliance was the only thing I could find that fit the bill. Little did I realize that the website has been defunct for five years and that there is no official Christian Nationalist organization anywhere in the United States! As it turns out, Christian Nationalism is a pejorative label that’s one of many labels, like Nazi and white supremacist,  being applied to anyone thinks like Ezra Taft Benson and J. Ruben Clark. In fact, when you go to the Wikipedia article on Christian Nationalism there’s one scant paragraph devoted to Christian Nationalism in the United States, and it only refers to ideas and not to any organizations that fit the label. So it turns out that this idea of mine, to have a paced, methodical discussion on the “official tenets” of Christian Nationalism, is ill founded.

And you seemed so ready to jump on board and support/defend the organization, that’s too bad!  

While there may not be an official organization, there are political leaders who are pushing Christian nationalist ideals who have a large base of supporters who agree with them.  It is a movement trying to  become synonymous with the Republican Party.  They do not see it as a “pejorative” but insist that “all republicans should be Christian nationalists”, and “I’m a proud Christian nationalist (Marjorie Taylor Green)”.  It is a “badge of honor” for them, not a pejorative.

https://religionnews.com/2022/08/04/how-to-answer-when-christian-nationalists-embrace-the-label-as-a-badge-of-honor/

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by pogi

[Teancum]

46 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

The fact is that there isn’t a single Christian Nationalist organization existing in the United States. Therefore the whole premise of this thread— that there’s a an official Christian Nationalist organization in the United States with officially held Christian Nationalist positions — isn’t true and for this reason I see no point in continuing my proposed slow paced, systematic inquiry. I’m out of this thread because it’s premise has proven to be a phantom. If others hear want to continue tondiscus Christian Nationalism as a label without an organization, be my guest. 

There does not have to be one monolithic organization for the ideals and philosophies of Christian Nationalism to be a threat. Fact is there are a lot of so called Christians out there that seem to like the ten things the group you started with hold to.  I would bet money you are such a person.

[pogi]

53 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

In case you missed it, in my last post I revealed that I’ve learned there is no Christian Nationalist organization in the United States. I didn’t realize that the Christian Nationalist Alliance website, from which I was getting the information I was posting on this thread, has been defunct for 5 years. And I’ve also learned that there never was an actual Christian National Alliance organization that was sponsoring the website.

The fact is that there isn’t a single Christian Nationalist organization existing in the United States. Therefore the whole premise of this thread— that there’s a an official Christian Nationalist organization in the United States with officially held Christian Nationalist positions — isn’t true and for this reason I see no point in continuing my proposed slow paced, systematic inquiry. I’m out of this thread because it’s premise has proven to be a phantom. If others here want to continue to discuss Christian Nationalism as a label without an organization, be my guest. 

Nationalism in general is a philosophy, not an organization.    There are organizations who embrace nationalism, but you don’t have to be part of any official organization (other than a country) to be a nationalist.  Trump said “I’m a nationalist” for example.  But not all republicans are nationalists.  What do you make of the comments and warnings about nationalism in conference?  Why were they warning about it despite there not being an official organization?  Is it just a “phantom” they are chasing?  Meaningless pejorative?

Edited September 21, 2022 by pogi

[Calm]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

In case you missed it, in my last post I revealed that I’ve learned there is no Christian Nationalist organization in the United States. I didn’t realize that the Christian Nationalist Alliance website, from which I was getting the information I was posting on this thread, has been defunct for 5 years. And I’ve also learned that there never was an actual Christian National Alliance organization that was sponsoring the website.

The fact is that there isn’t a single Christian Nationalist organization existing in the United States. Therefore the whole premise of this thread— that there’s a an official Christian Nationalist organization in the United States with officially held Christian Nationalist positions — isn’t true and for this reason I see no point in continuing my proposed slow paced, systematic inquiry. I’m out of this thread because it’s premise has proven to be a phantom. If others here want to continue to discuss Christian Nationalism as a label without an organization, be my guest. 

Perhaps none use precisely that name, but there are Christian Nationalist organizations…but if you believe that they must have those words in their title, then I suppose you don’t believe the Restored Church is a Christian organization because we only have Jesus Christ in our title and not Christian.

A very short google led me to the wiki article on Christian Nationalism, which listed in the US a political party, the Christian Liberty party.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Liberty_Party  

Quote

The Christian Liberty Party is a minor third political party in the United States whose platform advocates social conservatism.[1] Its platform positions include the opposition to abortion, as well as opposition to property taxes;[1] it advocates "an educational system that respects individual freedom of conscience and reinforces the Biblical role and responsibility of the family as the educator of youth".[2] Ideologically, the Christian Liberty Party is aligned with the Christian right and Christian nationalism, viewing the United States as a Christian state and seeing "the Bible as a blueprint for political action".[3][4][5]

Found this interesting:

Quote

Some studies of white evangelicals show that, among people who self-identify as evangelical Christians, the more they attend church, the more they pray, and the more they read the Bible, the less support they have for nationalist (though not socially conservative) policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_nationalism (bold mine)
 

So the more religious a Christian evangelical is, the less likely they are a nationalist.  Which leads me to wonder how deep of a Christian a Christian nationalist truly is if they are more likely to be out doing political stuff than doing religious acts or at the very least are more invested in politics than their religious faith (this may not be true for all CNs, but it appears to be the likely direction of those studies).

Edited September 21, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

If you truly want to discuss Christian Nationalism, what about starting with Christianity Today’s article as CT tends to be pretty balanced in most areas, imo, while conservative overall, so would likely give the benefit of the doubt to conservative movements.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/february-web-only/what-is-christian-nationalism.html

Patriotism vs Nationalism…

Quote

What is Christian nationalism, and how is it different from Christianity? How is it different from patriotism? How should Christians think about nations, especially about the United States? If nationalism is bad, does that mean we should reject nationality and national loyalty altogether?

What is patriotism, and is it good?

Patriotism is the love of country. It is different from nationalism, which is an argument about how to define our country. Christians should recognize that patriotism is good because all of God’s creation is good and patriotism helps us appreciate our particular place in it. Our affection and loyalty to a specific part of God’s creation helps us do the good work of cultivating and improving the part we happen to live in. As Christians, we can and should love the United States—which also means working to improve our country by holding it up for critique and working for justice when it errs.

What is nationalism?

There are many definitions of nationalism and an active debate about how best to define it. I reviewed the standard academic literature on nationalism and found several recurring themes. Most scholars agree that nationalism starts with the belief that humanity is divisible into mutually distinct, internally coherent cultural groups defined by shared traits like language, religion, ethnicity, or culture. From there, scholars say, nationalists believe that these groups should each have their own governments; that governments should promote and protect a nation’s cultural identity; and that sovereign national groups provide meaning and purpose for human beings.

What is Christian nationalism?

Christian nationalism is the belief that the American nation is defined by Christianity, and that the government should take active steps to keep it that way. Popularly, Christian nationalists assert that America is and must remain a “Christian nation”—not merely as an observation about American history, but as a prescriptive program for what America must continue to be in the future. Scholars like Samuel Huntington have made a similar argument: that America is defined by its “Anglo-Protestant” past and that we will lose our identity and our freedom if we do not preserve our cultural inheritance.

Christian nationalists do not reject the First Amendment and do not advocate for theocracy, but they do believe that Christianity should enjoy a privileged position in the public square. The term “Christian nationalism,” is relatively new, and its advocates generally do not use it of themselves, but it accurately describes American nationalists who believe American identity is inextricable from Christianity.

What is the problem with nationalism?

Humanity is not easily divisible into mutually distinct cultural units. Cultures overlap and their borders are fuzzy. Since cultural units are fuzzy, they make a poor fit as the foundation for political order. Cultural identities are fluid and hard to draw boundaries around, but political boundaries are hard and semipermanent. Attempting to found political legitimacy on cultural likeness means political order will constantly be in danger of being felt as illegitimate by some group or other. Cultural pluralism is essentially inevitable in every nation.

Is that really a problem, or just an abstract worry?

It is a serious problem. When nationalists go about constructing their nation, they have to define who is, and who is not, part of the nation. But there are always dissidents and minorities who do not or cannot conform to the nationalists’ preferred cultural template. In the absence of moral authority, nationalists can only establish themselves by force. Scholars are almost unanimous that nationalist governments tend to become authoritarian and oppressive in practice. For example, in past generations, to the extent that the United States had a quasi-established official religion of Protestantism, it did not respect true religious freedom. Worse, the United States and many individual states used Christianity as a prop to support slavery and segregation.

Should Christianity get top priority in government:

Quote

What do Christian nationalists want that is different from normal Christian engagement in politics?

Christian nationalists want to define America as a Christian nation and they want the government to promote a specific cultural template as the official culture of the country. Some have advocated for an amendment to the Constitution to recognize America’s Christian heritage, others to reinstitute prayer in public schools. Some work to enshrine a Christian nationalist interpretation of American history in school curricula, including that America has a special relationship with God or has been “chosen” by him to carry out a special mission on earth. Others advocate for immigration restrictions specifically to prevent a change to American religious and ethnic demographics or a change to American culture. Some want to empower the government to take stronger action to circumscribe immoral behavior.

Some—again, like the scholar Samuel Huntington—have argued that the United States government must defend and enshrine its predominant “Anglo-Protestant” culture to ensure the survival of American democracy. And sometimes Christian nationalism is most evident not in its political agenda, but in the sort of attitude with which it is held: an unstated presumption that Christians are entitled to primacy of place in the public square because they are heirs of the true or essential heritage of American culture, that Christians have a presumptive right to define the meaning of the American experiment because they see themselves as America’s architects, first citizens, and guardians.

How is this dangerous for America?

Christian nationalism tends to treat other Americans as second-class citizens. If it were fully implemented, it would not respect the full religious liberty of all Americans. Empowering the state through “morals legislation” to regulate conduct always carries the risk of overreaching, setting a bad precedent, and creating governing powers that could be used later be used against Christians. Additionally, Christian nationalism is an ideology held overwhelmingly by white Americans, and it thus tends to exacerbate racial and ethnic cleavages. In recent years, the movement has grown increasingly characterized by fear and by a belief that Christians are victims of persecution. Some are beginning to argue that American Christians need to prepare to fight, physically, to preserve America’s identity, an argument that played into the January 6 riot.

Is Christian Nationalism actually Christian?

Quote

How is Christianity different from Christian nationalism?

Christianity is a religion focused on the person and work of Jesus Christ as defined by the Christian Bible and the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds. It is the gathering of people “from every nation and tribe and people and language,” who worship Jesus (Rev. 7:9), a faith that unites Jews and Greeks, Americans and non-Americans together. Christianity is political, in the sense that its adherents have always understood their faith to challenge, affect, and transcend their worldly loyalties—but there is no single view on what political implications flow from Christian faith other than that we should “fear God, honor the king” (1 Pet. 2:17, NASB), pay our taxes, love our neighbors, and seek justice.

Christian nationalism is, by contrast, a political ideology focused on the national identity of the United States. It includes a specific understanding of American history and American government that are, obviously, extrabiblical—an understanding that is contested by many historians and political scientists. Most importantly, Christian nationalism includes specific policy prescriptions that it claims are biblical but are, at best, extrapolations from biblical principles and, at worst, contradictory to them.

The difference in Christianity in politics versus Christian Nationalism?

Quote

But [Christians] worked to advance Christian principles, not Christian power or Christian culture, which is the key distinction between normal Christian political engagement and Christian nationalism. 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Calm

[LoudmouthMormon]

 

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

The fact is that there isn’t a single Christian Nationalist organization existing in the United States. Therefore the whole premise of this thread— that there’s a an official Christian Nationalist organization in the United States with officially held Christian Nationalist positions — isn’t true and for this reason I see no point in continuing my proposed slow paced, systematic inquiry. I’m out of this thread because it’s premise has proven to be a phantom. If others here want to continue to discuss Christian Nationalism as a label without an organization, be my guest. 

Bummer.  If it helps, when I was born in 1970's Utah, I spent maybe about my first two decades of life, just assuming that whatever the church taught ought to be enshrined in law.  I remember being sad to watch grocery stores open on Sunday - my youthful self thought we were in the process of losing our "nation most favored of the Lord" status.  

Eventually somewhere in my early '20's, I gave it ten seconds of serious thought for the first time in my life, and learned 90% of those notions just couldn't survive a little critical thinking.  Not for someone who valued the Constitution and thought of it as a divinely inspired document.

[Calm]

Here is a survey from Baylor that focused on those identifying as agreeing with five themes associated with Christian Nationalism.  Perhaps teddy could work with them.

https://www.baylor.edu/baylorreligionsurvey/

https://www.baylor.edu/baylorreligionsurvey/index.php?id=978995

https://www.baylor.edu/baylorreligionsurvey/doc.php/378471.pdf

Quote

Wave 6 of the Baylor Religion Survey asked respondents their levels of agreement with the following statements:
 The federal government should declare the United States a Christian nation.
 The federal government should advocate Christian values.
 The federal government should enforce strict separation of church
and state.
 The federal government should allow the display of religious
symbols in public spaces.
 The success of the United States is part of God’s plan.
We created an additive scale with these six items to sort the sample into three groups:
1. Strong Christian Nationalists – Americans who believe that the U.S. should be a decidedly Christian State.
2. Strong Rejectors of Christian Nationalism – Americans who believe that the U.S. government should not advance or follow a Christian agenda.
3. Moderates – Americans who fall in the middle.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Calm

[LoudmouthMormon]

Also, a quick trip to Wiki's page "List of nationalist organizations" gives the following results for the US:

United States[edit]

• American Freedom Party – American white nationalist
• Constitution Party^[13] – Paleoconservative nationalist
• Identity Evropa – Identitarian
• Ku Klux Klan - White supremacist
• League of the South – Southern nationalism, separatist
• New Black Panther Party – Black nationalist
• Proud Boys - American civic nationalist

About the closest to Christian nationalist would be the "Constitution Party".  Looking at it's Wiki page, I read this:

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Religion

R. J. Rushdoony, a main figure in Christian reconstructionism, helped write the party's 1992 platform. The 1992 platform stated that "the U.S. Constitution established a republic under God, not a democracy". Christian reconstructionism has been influential in the Constitution Party and calls for the remaking of government and society according to Old Testament Biblical law.^[125]

The preamble of the 2004 platform states that the Lordship of Christ Jesus and the Bible are the final authority of law. It also stated that the purpose of the party was to restore American jurisprudence to its biblical and constitutional roots.

 

It would seem to fit the definition of a "Christian nationalist organization", but I'm not sure of how to discuss a political party in a forum that explicitly bans politics.

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

 

About the closest to Christian nationalist would be the "Constitution Party".  Looking at it's Wiki page, I read this:

 

It would seem to fit the definition of a "Christian nationalist organization", but I'm not sure of how to discuss a political party in a forum that explicitly bans politics.

The Christian Liberty Party I mentioned above is a break off of the Constitution Party:

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The Christian Liberty Party was founded in June 2000 as the American Heritage Party after a group of members left the Constitution Party.[6] The reason for the establishment of Christian Liberty Party was due to the fact that the Constitution Party did not explicitly identify itself as a Christian party.[2] To this end, the Christian Liberty Party is "a political party that adopts the Bible as its political textbook and is unashamed to be explicitly Christian ... [and] whose principles are drawn from Scripture."[2]

 

 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

You don’t believe in Jesus Christ and reject the Book of Mormon, a record that testifies if the modern-day American gentiles refuse to have faith in Jesus Christ and serve him in righteousness they will be utterly destroyed, so there’s not much point in having a discussion with someone who rejects everything the Latter-Day believe. I would prefer this discussion to be among believing Latter-Day Saint to determine, from the varied points of view of sincere believers, if the written tenets of Christian Nationalism are out of harmony with the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. You’re point of view is more like that of a barking dog on the sidelines of this debate.

Why are you on a discussion board when you want an echo chamber?