Racial Slur at BYU Game - Real or Hoax?

[gopher]

And this was after BYU showed a classy gesture for the Spencer Webb, the Oregon player who died earlier this year...

Before things got rolling Saturday between No. 25 Oregon and No. 12 BYU, the Cougars showed some love to the Oregon football family.

As BYU took the field prior to the game, the team ran out of the tunnel carrying a yellow Oregon flag that featured Spencer Webb’s name and number. Former Oregon offensive lineman and current Cougar Kingsley Suamataia was the BYU man carrying the flag.

https://saturdayoutwest.com/oregon-ducks/byu-runs-out-of-tunnel-with-oregon-flag-tribute-to-spencer-webb/

[Calm]

It wasn’t the whole fan section yelling.  Looked like just a few.  Wouldn’t label the whole school as responsible for that kind of harrassment.

[Harry T. Clark]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

According to one comment, school employees who were standing nearby were asked to stop the chants, but claimed they didn’t hear anything. If true, I find that worse behaviour than the chanting, the refusal to even acknowledge someone’s complaint is valid. That silences their voice.  And no wonder if so, this appears to be a repeat of what happened last year (according to DN article). What consequences, if any, did any fan suffer from similar behaviour last year?

An obvious dig at the volleyball non-incident.

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

It wasn’t the whole fan section yelling.  Looked like just a few.  Wouldn’t label the whole school as responsible for that kind of harrassment.

Would to God the rabidly woke mainstream media had the same generous attitude during the heat of the Rachel Richardson controversy!

Edited September 18, 2022 by teddyaware

[teddyaware]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

According to one comment, school employees who were standing nearby were asked to stop the chants, but claimed they didn’t hear anything. If true, I find that worse behaviour than the chanting, the refusal to even acknowledge someone’s complaint is valid. That silences their voice.  And no wonder if so, this appears to be a repeat of what happened last year (according to DN article). What consequences, if any, did any fan suffer from similar behaviour last year?

Unlike the Rachel Richardson incident, the Oregonians were caught in the act on tape.

 

[MrShorty]

KSL is reporting that Oregon's official student section twitter account is apologizing: https://www.ksl.com/article/50478446/oregon-student-section-apologizes-for-offensive-chant-directed-at-byu-latter-day-saints

[JustAnAustralian]

Quote

“The university apologizes for the despicable chants made by some University of Oregon fans at today’s football game with Brigham Young University. There is no place for hate, bias or bigotry at the University of Oregon. These actions are simply unacceptable. We will investigate, and we call on our students and campus community to refuse to accept or tolerate this type of behavior,” said Kris Winter, interim Vice President for the Division of Student Life at the University of Oregon, in an emailed message to the Deseret News.

Does this mean they will be banning the people seen in the video?

[JAHS]

Search Youtube for the following title for another video of it (1:22 and 3:40 marks) which happened just before the BYU team carries out a flag honoring he Oregon football player who was killed.

BYU VS DUCKS AT OREGON. WARNING there is foul language in the video

Edited September 18, 2022 by JAHS

[OGHoosier]

I'm glad the University of Oregon apologized. 

In coming years I am curious to see the degree to which anti-discrimination rhetoric and policy will be invoked against anti-religious actions. It doesn't have the same charge as racial anti-discrimination efforts but religion is still a protected class. 

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

I'm glad the University of Oregon apologized.

Did they say anything about instituting a program to educate students or otherwise demonstrate an effort to lessen the possibility of it happening again?  

[JAHS]

4 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

I'm glad the University of Oregon apologized. 

In coming years I am curious to see the degree to which anti-discrimination rhetoric and policy will be invoked against anti-religious actions. It doesn't have the same charge as racial anti-discrimination efforts but religion is still a protected class. 

It is protected when it comes to employment but a lot of people believe it is otherwise not a protected class.

[OGHoosier]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Did they say anything about instituting a program to educate students or otherwise demonstrate an effort to lessen the possibility of it happening again?  

Not to my knowledge. Don't expect one. 

The fact that a one allegation - a demonstrably mistaken one - can still instigate this sort of bigoted reaction does bad things for my faith in the Republic's future stewards. The bad old days appear to be returning. 

6 minutes ago, JAHS said:

It is protected when it comes to employment but a lot of people believe it is otherwise not a protected class.

This is regrettably true. We may have occasion to test that assumption in the near future. 

My parents are fairly anti-litigation and they call it a Church stance. I don't know if its a Church stance or it isn't, but I have abandoned it. 

[HappyJackWagon]

On 9/16/2022 at 1:07 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

Biden has used foul language too. 

true.

But comparing the 2 is like comparing Samuel L Jackson & Tom Hanks. Have both used foul language? Of course.

But which one sets the bar?

 

[Scott Lloyd]

30 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

true.

But comparing the 2 is like comparing Samuel L Jackson & Tom Hanks. Have both used foul language? Of course.

But which one sets the bar?

 

Do you still get the “No politics” banner at the top of your screen?

[Amulek]

On 9/17/2022 at 9:42 PM, bsjkki said:

****Language warning!!!!

I guess this is ‘okay?’ And it’s on tape. 

For the record: Doesn't bother me.

Not saying it isn't in poor taste, but I wouldn't want them all dragged off for sensitivity training either.

 

[Vanguard]

26 minutes ago, Amulek said:

For the record: Doesn't bother me.

Not saying it isn't in poor taste, but I wouldn't want them all dragged off for sensitivity training either.

 

Agreed. I remember pulling up in a bus to Rice-Eccles Stadium (UofU) as a BYU marching band member back in ~'88? in preparation for the big BYU vs. Utah showdown. We had arrived earlier because we would be practicing a joint musical number with the U's band as well as have an opportunity to practice our half-time drill before the game. We pulled up along side of the stadium and there was already a line forming of what looked to be U students waiting to get in. Once they knew who we were they immediately started flipping us off in as demonstrative a way as you can imagine, hitting, and on a couple of occasions, spitting on the bus as we inched by! It was a real wake-up call for me. I don't hold any grudges about it and often think on that era with good humor.

As far as the Oregon fans are concerned, if you're going to shout something offensive at least be creative with it! Good grief. Who writes their material?! ;o

[HappyJackWagon]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Do you still get the “No politics” banner at the top of your screen?

Yep. You?

I haven't made any kind of political statement, nor have I mentioned a politician (unlike you). I've only made broad comments about language in Tweets.

Unless Samuel L is running for something I'm unaware of I think I'm on the right side of the line. If not, I'm sure you'll report me. It's cool.

Edited September 19, 2022 by HappyJackWagon

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Yep. You?

I haven't made any kind of political statement, nor have I mentioned a politician (unlike you). I've only made broad comments about language in Tweets.

Unless Samuel L is running for something I'm unaware of I think I'm on the right side of the line. If not, I'm sure you'll report me. It's cool.

I won’t report you. I’m only saying why this conversation, which I have no interest in anyway, is over. 
 

By the way, notwithstanding the transparent coyness, you left no room for doubt whom you meant: 

“You remember who our last president was, right”

Edited September 19, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[JAHS]

A more complete apology from the Oregon State Interim President
Interim University of Oregon president condemns anti-Mormon chant from student section: ‘It angers me. It disgusts me.’

Dear University of Oregon community members,

During Saturday’s football game against Brigham Young University, a small group of fans started a chant that targeted and denigrated members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Meanwhile on the field, both teams were engaged in an exciting game, which itself was preceded by the BYU players graciously honoring the memory of UO football player Spencer Webb. What a shame that the hard work and earnest effort of so many might be overshadowed by the egregious behavior of so few.

Directly harassing someone based on their religious beliefs violates our core value of full inclusion as a university. I am grateful that the Oregon Pit Crew, our student fan organization, immediately issued an apology about the incident. It is worth considering how corrosive this kind of behavior can truly be to each of us. While some might see these chants as being directed against an opponent from another school, they are also an attack on all members of our community. There are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on our own football team, and we know there were members of that faith wearing green and yellow sitting right next to those chanting on Saturday. How did they feel in that moment? I hope that everyone will reflect on the reality that, what may seem like a lark to some, tells someone else in our community that they are not welcome, and that they should be afraid based on who they are and what they believe. Our path toward true inclusion starts with empathy for how others might be experiencing a given incident or interaction.

These actions remind us that discrimination can affect each of us along some dimension of our lives — faith, ethnicity, nationality, gender, gender expression, sexual orientation, physical or cognitive ability, socioeconomic background — but for some, it is part and parcel of their daily experience, and it can weigh heavily. We have students from all backgrounds at the UO. Without question, some have been more vulnerable to discrimination than others, as are many of the groups of faculty and staff who have spoken to me over the last few years with true distress in their voices.

I condemn the behavior of these fans on Saturday. It angers me. It disgusts me. It also provides a moment to remind ourselves that these actions, as well as any other actions of a similar flavor, are anathema to who we are as a community. These types of incidents call upon us to stand up against such behavior when we witness it — a task made easier when we stand together. This is who we seek to be as a university, and the standard to which we hold ourselves. We will continue to educate our community about our values and how to live them in words and actions.

Patrick Phillips

Interim President and Professor of Biology

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, JAHS said:

A more complete apology from the Oregon State Interim President
Interim University of Oregon president condemns anti-Mormon chant from student section: ‘It angers me. It disgusts me.’

Dear University of Oregon community members,

During Saturday’s football game against Brigham Young University, a small group of fans started a chant that targeted and denigrated members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Meanwhile on the field, both teams were engaged in an exciting game, which itself was preceded by the BYU players graciously honoring the memory of UO football player Spencer Webb. What a shame that the hard work and earnest effort of so many might be overshadowed by the egregious behavior of so few.

Directly harassing someone based on their religious beliefs violates our core value of full inclusion as a university. I am grateful that the Oregon Pit Crew, our student fan organization, immediately issued an apology about the incident. It is worth considering how corrosive this kind of behavior can truly be to each of us. While some might see these chants as being directed against an opponent from another school, they are also an attack on all members of our community. There are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on our own football team, and we know there were members of that faith wearing green and yellow sitting right next to those chanting on Saturday. How did they feel in that moment? I hope that everyone will reflect on the reality that, what may seem like a lark to some, tells someone else in our community that they are not welcome, and that they should be afraid based on who they are and what they believe. Our path toward true inclusion starts with empathy for how others might be experiencing a given incident or interaction.

These actions remind us that discrimination can affect each of us along some dimension of our lives — faith, ethnicity, nationality, gender, gender expression, sexual orientation, physical or cognitive ability, socioeconomic background — but for some, it is part and parcel of their daily experience, and it can weigh heavily. We have students from all backgrounds at the UO. Without question, some have been more vulnerable to discrimination than others, as are many of the groups of faculty and staff who have spoken to me over the last few years with true distress in their voices.

I condemn the behavior of these fans on Saturday. It angers me. It disgusts me. It also provides a moment to remind ourselves that these actions, as well as any other actions of a similar flavor, are anathema to who we are as a community. These types of incidents call upon us to stand up against such behavior when we witness it — a task made easier when we stand together. This is who we seek to be as a university, and the standard to which we hold ourselves. We will continue to educate our community about our values and how to live them in words and actions.

Patrick Phillips

Interim President and Professor of Biology

I like it, thoughtful.  Doesn’t sound canned.

[MrShorty]

Resurrecting this to share a new report (30 sep 2022) from the Guardian making similar claims against BYU at a women's soccer match in 2021 (I see no specifics). Not sure what to make of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/sep/30/byu-racism-allegations-womens-soccer-college-sports

[gopher]

The USC story has some of the same elements as the BYU story.

-Only players kneeling during the National anthem heard fans yelling "Stand up,  n-word", other players on USC admit they heard nothing.

-No other evidence has been provided.  No video or audio evidence has been presented.

-The USC players also attended the anti-racism activism session called "A Long Talk"

BYU claims they were not informed the n-word was being used by the fans at the game, but did make an announcement asking fans to be respectful after some booed the kneeling players.

From USA Today, we find out why the anonymous USC players waited until now with their accusations:

"The USC players spoke to the Guardian in part to support Richardson after BYU announced it had completed an investigation into Richardson's allegations and found no evidence to corroborate, according to the person who spoke to USA TODAY Sports."

This recent article doesn't seem to convince many in the comments section that the USC accusations should be believed:

https://sports.yahoo.com/byu-duke-womens-volleyball-intersect-102113042.html

Also from the article:

“We almost knew something was going to happen,'' Isabel Rolley, a defender at USC last year, told USA TODAY Sports. "It was just a matter of when.''

Rolley said she and her teammates knew what to expect when they showed up for road games wearing Black Lives Still Matter T-shirts before they kneeled during the anthem.

“We got a lot of backlash,'' said Rolley, who has transferred to Oregon. "But out of the places we played that year, BYU was probably like, in our uniformed opinion, the most racist or least progressive place we went to.''

And this quote:

"Hannah White, a senior forward for USC who was one of the players who kneeled at BYU, said she didn't hear fans use the n-word but about four of her teammates told her they did. She said players closer to the other end of the starters lineup were those who reported hearing the slur.

"I know it was definitely said,'' White told USA TODAY Sports. "I just didn’t hear it."

I don't think there's much enthusiasm to investigate the claims any further.  And unlike the Duke case, there wasn't anyone singled out and wrongly accused.  But hopefully BYU fans realize they will be watched very carefully now.

 

[Kenngo1969]

On 9/19/2022 at 5:41 PM, JAHS said:

A more complete apology from the Oregon State [emphasis added by Kenngo1969] Interim President
Interim University of Oregon president condemns anti-Mormon chant from student section: ‘It angers me. It disgusts me.’

Dear University of Oregon [emphasis added by Kenngo1969] community members ...

U of O [University of Oregon] and OSU [Oregon State University] are different.  Just sayin'!  This occurred at the former, not at the latter.

[Kenngo1969]

On 10/3/2022 at 7:35 PM, MrShorty said:

Resurrecting this to share a new report (30 sep 2022) from the Guardian making similar claims against BYU at a women's soccer match in 2021 (I see no specifics). Not sure what to make of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/sep/30/byu-racism-allegations-womens-soccer-college-sports

Similar?  Hmmm.     I'm not so sure.  It's one thing to accuse fans of racism (and whatever other lies Rachel Richardson might [or, thankfully, might not] have told [sorry, but I call 'em like I see 'em], at least she didn't try to tar tar players on the BYU Women's Volleyball team with the same racist brush.  Insofar as I know, she never accused players of anything improper ... except, apparently [at least implicitly] standing idly by while their fans allegedly spewed racist garbage.  )

Edited October 9, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[RevTestament]

On 9/6/2022 at 3:26 PM, smac97 said:

We had two threads about this story:

BYU bans fan for racial slur

University of South Carolina cancels games with BYU amid alleged racist slur incident with Duke

It seems like the original story got a lot of press coverage.  

It looks like there are articles coming out claiming that the story is a fabrication.  See, e.g., here:

And here:

The above link ("was") goes to this article: Police Find No Evidence BYU Volleyball Fan Yelled ‘N-Word’ During Game

And here:

It seems that so far there is no evidence, apart from the Duke player's accusation, that anyone shouted thee N-word.

And yet BYU banned him anyway.  I hope this gets reviewed and, if appropriate, the banning is undone.

I did wonder how BYU or anyone else identified the kid who was banned.

That's . . . awkward for BYU.  

Yes, I suppose it could mean that.  

I'm curious how they made this identification.

Has anyone listened to the audio?  Seems like the slur would have been picked up if the player was able to hear it.

And yet "Duke coaches and players identified that man as the same one who yelled the N-word from the BYU student section."

And yet "Duke coaches and players identified that man as the same one who yelled the N-word from the BYU student section."

This does not look good for BYU.

Yeesh.  So far the evidence indicates that

• A) the guy, a UVU student, "was not present when Richardson was serving {during the match's second set}, that
• B) he "was playing on his phone" later in the game when Richardson was serving again, but 
• C) he was nevertheless "identified" by "Duke coaches and players" as "the same one who yelled the N-word from the BYU student section," and 
• D) the administration at BYU (not, it seems BYUPD) wanted to "ban" the guy from BYU anyway, and so had BYUPD do so.  And despite the incongruency between the evidence and the accusation,
• E) BYUPD "is no longer looking at the video."

It looks like BYU got unjustifiably raked across the coals, but its response here is . . . bad.  

Oh.  Academic bureaucrats are taking over an investigative function previously performed by (presumably POST-certified) law enforcement officers with BYUPD.

Yeah, really not a good look for BYU here.

Why?  Why is BYUPD not running point?

It's also "unclear" whether there is a conflict of interest in the "investigation" being turned over to administrative/academic staff.

I have previously had some qualms about BYU having its own police force.  This story is strengthening those qualms.

Yep.  But will the "investigation" by administrative/academic staff be subject to public records requests?  I doubt it.

That's a weird thing to say.  

It would also behoove BYU students to go to law enforcement and, if true, state that they did not hear racial slurs being shouted.

The phrase "rush to judgment" comes to mind.

Sheesh.  The Tribune is raising entirely legitimate questions about the accusations in this story.

BYU, it seems, is not.

What is up with BYU?

Um, isn't this a significant point?

During the fourth set, during which "four ushers and an officer" were in the stands, yet the police officer states that he heard nothing (and the four ushers apparently had nothing to say either).

It was during this set, the fourth set, that the racial slurs "escalated?"

Is it, though?

More here:

The above article references "Rachel's godmother Lesa Pamplin."  Ms. Pamplin is currently running a campaign to be a judge in the County Criminal Court in Tarrant County, Texas.  She touts herself as "a former police officer, prosecutor, and current defense attorney."  From the "About" page of her website:

Her personal tweets, however, paint something of a different picture as to the "all mankind" bit:

Per the above link, "Her account is now private."

Also from the above link:

The inflammatory rhetoric, both from those supportive of the Duke player and those who believe she is pulling a Jussie Smollett, is problematic.

This link also includes a summary of Pamplin's tweets:

Also this (same link) :

A fabricated email that bolster's Pamplin's accusation of racism.  Weird.

More here:

And here (ABC 4) :

Here's a report from "Cougar Chronicle":

BYU banned a man with special needs?  Who wasn't even in the student section from whence the purported slurs came?

The Athletic Department at BYU is not exactly covering itself with glory.

Lesa Pamplin was not even at the game.

Yeesh.

More:

More (Washington Examiner) :

More:

These guys are suggesting that not only is this story a hoax, but an orchastrated one.  A shakedown:

More YouTube videos here:

• Duke Volleyball Player Made It All Up?
• Clay Travis: BYU Racial Slur At A Volleyball Game Story Collapses
• Did A Fan ACTUALLY Yell RACIAL SLURS At This Volleyball Game?
• Duke Volleyball Player’s Hate Crime HOAX Is Falling Apart
• No evidence found of banned BYU fan using racist slurs at volleyball game
• No evidence of racial slurs found at Duke-BYU volleyball game
• BYU-Duke Volleyball Race Hoax
• Was It All A Lie? Duke Volleyball Vs BYU!

A few closing thoughts:

1. The accusation seems pretty weak.  Apparently the sole earwitness was the Duke player.  No other first-person accounts.

2. Much of the news coverage arises from vitriolic commentary from the player's "godmother" who A) was not present, B) was previously involved in a scam involving a fabricated email to impute racism against a judge, and C) has a long and well-documented history of saying some pretty awful things about white people.

3. BYU, to its credit, apparently sent both a police officer and four ushers to monitor the student section, none of which reported any racial slurs during times when the Duke player said they were happening.

4. The folks from Duke somehow accused a special needs guy of being the one who yelled the slurs, even though A) he wasn't in the student section during one portion of the game during which slurs were purportedly yelled, B) during another portion of the game when the slurs were purportedly flying, he was playing with his phone, and C) he is apparently special needs.

5. BYU has asked for anyone who saw/heard anything, or recorded anything, to come forward.  Nobody has done so.

6. The entire game was recorded, yet nobody has been able to detect any racial slurs in the recordings.

7. BYUPD has turned the "investigation" over to administrative staff, who have no particular training or expertise in examining video/audio footage.

8. BYUPD, having summarily banned a UVU student (who is apparently also a special needs person), is not presently investigating this matter further.

9. The Salt Lake Tribune, an unofficial BYU student paper (the "Cougar Chronicle"), and various YouTubers who have no connection to BYU have done far more in examining this issue, in terms of evidence and investigation and analysis, than BYU and is police department have done.

10. The differentiation in perspectives on this story is apparently not along racial lines (several of the YouTubers commenting on this story as being a hoax are black).  Nor are the lines ideological in terms of religion (pro- or -con BYU and the Church), as several articles examining this apparent hoax are very critical of BYU's handling of this issue, several have little to nothing to say about BYU's status as a "religious" school affiliated with the Church, and the Tribune hardly has any reason to carry water for BYU  (kudos to their reporting of this, BTW).  

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Smac

I don't think it was a hoax or that BYU should have reacted so rashly and defensively. Probably what happened is that the person was yelling cougar....s...  and the Duke player heard the last part of that word... and her brain translated the rest.  I think she thought she heard something that just wasn't there. It is never heard on a video. What should have happened, is that she should have informed someone there, and BYU should have brought out someone with a recorder to stand in the direction of the alleged insult... assuming that is legal. It certainly would be legal to break out a video recorder.... I'm personally sure the word was cougar, and have seen nor heard anything to convince me otherwise. Without that, you are right... BYU is unnecessarily making itself look bad.