Discerning truth from lies. Have Christians, and members of the LDS church abandoned their spiritual discernment? And for what?

[Elisabeth R.]

I am a Canadian, and so I have watched from the outside the last few years of American politics, and the inexplicable, to me,  phenomena of Christian Americans, and more terrifyingly to me, members of my own faith, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aligning themselves with Donald Trump, and the American Republican Party which has become more and more shaped in Trump's image.  I cannot fathom how anyone who has read and even superficially understood the teachings of Jesus, and who has, incidentally, covenanted to FOLLOW Jesus, can be okay with, can reconcile within their own logical mind and conscience, ALSO, SIMULTANEOUSLY, following Donald Trump and his policies, and worse yet, much much scarier and worse, not being able to see through his so obvious, provably false, provably self-promoting at the cost of anyone who gets in his way, LIES. I have never had my faith tested so much as during this period of history when I, as a professed Christian, have to share that label with people who have allowed themselves to be tricked and lied to and compromised in so damaging a way.

We cannot serve two masters. When we serve Christ, and also follow our Prophet, we are NOT serving two masters, because the Prophet humbly and readily acknowledges that he serves at the will of God and Christ. HOWEVER, you can't serve Christ AND Trump. Two more incompatible figures can hardly ever have been repeatedly FORCED to stand together in the believe systems of so many Americans, who either don't understand what their Christianity means, don't understand what Trump stands for or who he is, are too, sorry, STUPID, to see the glaring incompatibilities between the two figures and their "teachings," or have been completely bamboozled and blinded by he who would shut down and render useless all of our spiritual gifts - yeah, I'm talking about Satan - those gifts that help us navigate through a world full of deception and trickery. Those gifts that will keep our souls safe, if only we will heed them. Please, someone, explain to me how a great swathe of American Christians have abandoned the spiritual discernment that would  allow them to know the spirits, and to discern between the true ones and the false,  and who now, seemingly with no inner turmoil or sense of cognitive dissonance,  believe the last election was "stolen" and that Trump is still the rightful president,  believe various q-anon insanities about liberal pedophile rings (Uh, Trump and Epstein Anyone? Actual proven pedophile ring!) and the threat to white people by communist funded minorities, etc. etc.  How is there any discernible trace of Christ and his teachings in ANY of the hateful, racist, nihilistic, Trump-worshiping insanity that these so-called Christians embarrass themselves and the rest of us by spouting and espousing? 

Please. Someone explain this to me.

[Calm]

Welcome to the board.  Always can use more Canadians imo (I lived in Calgary for 13 years and was hoping for forever, but job necessitated moving back to the States).

If you look at the top of the board, you will see a banner saying “no politics”.  Also not appropriate for Social Hall which is more for socializing.  You will risk getting banned if you post more.

It is not that a lot here don’t agree with you (I can’t stand Trump), it is simply the moderators have decided they don’t want to play referee to fist fights…politics is not an easy topic to keep the passion and worse, the judgment of other posters down to workable levels.

This thread is going to get locked as soon as a mod sees it.  Is there another nonpolitical topic you would like to discuss?  Anything you have been studying lately?

Edited August 25, 2022 by Calm

[Elisabeth R.]

Is there a forum or a site that allows people to discuss the problems that ensue when the undiscussable "politics," or  rather, what I've heard some cultural pundits call, the "post-truth" society - made real entirely because of  undiscussable political figures I'm not allowed to mention -  DIRECTLY affect our religious realities? I guess I don't understand this site and what it is about and for. 

[Tacenda]

I agree one hundred percent. I fight it everyday within my family and them hating on Biden. But at least Biden cares about humans. Trump cares only about Trump, I blame it on his childhood. 

I'd love a "politics only" pinned someplace because this is hitting me at my core. How one man can change so many lives and not for the good. Many families are now divided and not speaking to each other. It's very cult like and people choosing the guy over their own kin. Almost like he's a god.

You said everything I believe. How can members not see that he is a liar, thousands of his lies told immediately when he gets in a bind. It happened for many years before the presidency with his corporations, lies. Any time he gets caught with something he somehow weasels out of it. 

Our country is going to die on the Trump hill if we're not careful. 

edit to add:

Here's a Utah senator, my home state, that compares Trump to Captain Moroni. I'm hoping he loses in the upcoming elections. First time I've ever gotten a political sign to put in my yard with his opponent, who is an Independent. 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2020/10/30/sen-mike-lee-compares-trump-to-captain-moroni-draws-criticism-lds-community/6078062002/

"To my Mormon friends, my Latter-day Saint friends, think of him as Captain Moroni," Lee, R-Utah, said during a Goodyear rally Wednesday as he pointed to Trump in front of a large crowd of mostly maskless supporters. "He seeks not power, but to pull it down. He seeks not the praise of the world or the ‘fake news,’ but he seeks the well-being and the peace of the American people."

Edited August 25, 2022 by Tacenda

[rpn]

It is really difficult when the only people running are those with unhelpful policies and flawed personal habits or backgrounds.   Things are rarely as black and white (can we still use that phrase?) as the OP suggests (and yes, the fringes on both sides are huge fringes that don't deserve the time they get in discussing the issues of the day).   Which is why lately our church leaders have been counseling us to put our identities as children of God and faithful members above all other identities at all times. 

[Elisabeth R.]

I believe I can raise the issues from  my original post in a non-political way. 

What do I do when  I am faced with people who, ostensibly, share the same beliefs as me, as in, Christian, as in LDS, but who also have taken in and taken on various ideas and theories they have picked up from  "news" sources  and social media, and the like, that seem to me to be in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ, and , more practically speaking, seem to be, prima facie, simply FALSE.  When fellow members give their "testimony" of culturally generated falsehoods that they've somehow latched on to, what do I do? When I hear a fellow member speak of a verifiably flawed, immoral, corrupt, and narcissistically self-serving man, in similar term as they would of the Saviour we supposedly share a covenanted devotion to, what the heck am I to do? When people who, like me, have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and yet, seemingly, are unable to discern the difference between obvious lies and truth, what do I do? This is NOT about politics. This is about each individual's ability and need to discern between truth and lies, and if more and more LDS members are able to short-circuit their spiritual discernment, the ONLY way it is possible to believe lies, then what do we do as the body of Christ to elp each other, to peacefully interact with each other? I don't know.

[Elisabeth R.]

As to "identities" I TOTALLY, and enthusiastically agree. There is a reason why the first song we all learned was "I am a child of God." This is the bedrock foundation of any sturdy testimony.  Know who we are, know who God is, understand His plan, understand that this fallen world is, in fact, fallen, and therefore it is full of ideas, systems, traditions, philosophies, that may be taken as unquestionable by many humans that have inherited them as "gospel" truth, but which are only temporary, passing fancies, when compared with the eternal Truths of God.  When members of the church get sidetracked and hijacked by worldly philosophies, or by straight on worldly lies, and then actually try to integrate those incompatables with the truths of the gospel, it is tragic and dangerous their spiritual health and well-being. And if this happens to more and moe people in our congregations, it is dangerous to us all.

[Jerry Atric]

10 minutes ago, Elisabeth R. said:

I believe I can raise the issues from  my original post in a non-political way. 

What do I do when  I am faced with people who, ostensibly, share the same beliefs as me, as in, Christian, as in LDS, but who also have taken in and taken on various ideas and theories they have picked up from  "news" sources  and social media, and the like, that seem to me to be in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ, and , more practically speaking, seem to be, prima facie, simply FALSE.  When fellow members give their "testimony" of culturally generated falsehoods that they've somehow latched on to, what do I do? When I hear a fellow member speak of a verifiably flawed, immoral, corrupt, and narcissistically self-serving man, in similar term as they would of the Saviour we supposedly share a covenanted devotion to, what the heck am I to do? When people who, like me, have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and yet, seemingly, are unable to discern the difference between obvious lies and truth, what do I do? This is NOT about politics. This is about each individual's ability and need to discern between truth and lies, and if more and more LDS members are able to short-circuit their spiritual discernment, the ONLY way it is possible to believe lies, then what do we do as the body of Christ to elp each other, to peacefully interact with each other? I don't know.

I have a friend that is highly political and is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum than me politically. She despises "he who should not be named." You know, the man you seem to hate with a passion. Out of all of my friends,  this person is the only one that has a 3 foot poster of "you know who" hanging over her toilet in the guest bathroom. The first time I walked into her bathroom and hovered over the toilet, I couldn't believe it! On the wall directly in front of me was a huge poster of "you know who" with the word NOPE written on the bottom of the poster. I started laughing so hard I might of missed the bowl for a second or two. 

I don't dislike "you know who" at all. But I would never in a million years hang a picture of "you know who" in my house. The obsession with "you know who" isn't coming from the side that voted for him. There's definitely an obsession with "you know who" but it's not found within the group of people who voted for him.

 

[bluebell]

I have so many republican friends who sincerely believe the same about members of the church who are Democrats.  I was so glad when (I think it was) Pres Oaks got up in GC and said that good, sincere, believing members could legitimately belong to either political party.

Everyone always being up on their high horse was getting annoying. 

[Amulek]

4 hours ago, Elisabeth R. said:

I cannot fathom how anyone who has read and even superficially understood the teachings of Jesus, and who has, incidentally, covenanted to FOLLOW Jesus, can be okay with, can reconcile within their own logical mind and conscience, ALSO, SIMULTANEOUSLY, following Donald Trump and his policies, and worse yet, much much scarier and worse, not being able to see through his so obvious, provably false, provably self-promoting at the cost of anyone who gets in his way, LIES.

If you really want to know how people reconcile it, it's easy: When it comes to presidential politics you are voting for the platform, not the person. So sometimes that means you will have to hold your nose and vote your party's candidate even though you know he (or she) is a stinker.

 

[Tacenda]

21 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I have so many republican friends who sincerely believe the same about members of the church who are Democrats.  I was so glad when (I think it was) Pres Oaks got up in GC and said that good, sincere, believing members could legitimately belong to either political party.

Everyone always being up on their high horse was getting annoying. 

I am Republican on my voting registry, and haven't changed it yet. But seriously, I've only voted for the person, not the party, ever.

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

I am Republican on my voting registry, and haven't changed it yet. But seriously, I've only voted for the person, not the party, ever.

Me too.  

[Elisabeth R.]

12 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I am Republican on my voting registry, and haven't changed it yet. But seriously, I've only voted for the person, not the party, ever.

 

[Nemesis]

No politics.