The bare minimum.

[webbles]

13 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

How about this one

 

Also from https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1980/10/prepare-for-the-days-of-tribulation?lang=eng

[Jerry Atric]

5 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Weren't you the one talking about stock piling gold, silver, and money?

 

  

 

Good lord! Think for yourself for once. You guys wanted CFRs about storing food/stuff in the latter days and I just gave you some. There's plenty more. Not all Mormons store guns. Not all Mormons store gold or silver. Not all Mormons store alcohol or tobacco or coffee,  but a large portion do. 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Jerry, I have no personal stake in this issue (I don’t care if you have a room with guns in your temples). I’m just annoyed how you are disregarding the rules that make this place a positive forum. You are also being very flippant towards longtime LDS Internet friends of mine (it’ll be 10 years next month that I’ve been on this board, crazy y’all!). 
 

We love you too!

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Jerry Atric said:

Hey Calm, gui, when he says the day will come, what day is he talking about?

A day when we will have to do those things.  Like the Depression, WW1&2, any time the economy fails.

There is no doubt that the Second Coming will be calamitous, much like the time of his coming to the Nephites.

Temporal preparation will be important, but more important is spiritual preparation. We do not store food and commodities only for that event as you have repeatedly and adamantly claimed (while ridiculing those who don’t agree) but also for other calamities such as unemployment, natural disasters, illness, death of the breadwinner, etc. These are all critical reasons that have been consistently taught by church leaders, in handbooks, welfare training meetings and conferences, instructional materials, guidebooks, pamphlets and more since the 1930s and even before.  It is disingenuous to insist they haven’t. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Jerry Atric said:

I thought we were done with food storage. OK. Let me go find what the prophets have said. 

Uhhhhm…you had multiple reminders before and after you deflected with the gun stuff. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Jerry Atric said:

 

This does not refer only to the Second Coming. It actually supports the position that we must try to be prepared for any tribulation…even boo-boos. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

Ditto. 
 

Ditto. 
 

Welfare farms. 
 

Referring to Second Coming, but implies other reasons for storage…

”continuing blessings of…obedience.” 
Using your logic that we are the Latter-day Saints, in the latter days there will be many tribulations including famine, pestilence, wars, not just the events of the Second coming, so we prepare for those too. We never were worried about COVID shortages because we were prepared. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

A day when we will have to do those things.  Like the Depression, WW1&2, any time the economy fails. 

There has been a recession in the US 13 times since the Great Depression.  If one manages to pull their attention away from the relative security of the States and look at all the counties there are Saints in, then add up all the recessions, depressions, wars, famines, and anything else that can restrict or even cut the supply chains (cough <pandemic> cough) as well as raise the number who are underemployed or unemployed, who knows how high the number is or how many more such disruptions that result in significant numbers of church members worldwide struggling financially (or wanting to help those who are in need) will come before we move into the main events of the Second Coming.  Life happens along the way to the Second Coming.  Our leaders are not idiots thinking Saints don’t need to be concerned about everyday disasters as well as the disasters to come.  Our faith is not just one that looks to the future, but is fully grounded in the present…which is why the Church is spending almost a billion a year in humanitarian and welfare aid these days as opposed to stockpiling all that food, clothing, water, wheelchairs, etc.**

If more than 3/4 million saints needed to ask for help through fast offerings in 2014***, imagine how many would have been using home storage before appealing to the bishop/branch president for help.  Somehow I don’t see that many telling the bishop, “hey, bishop, can we get an food order for the Bishops’ Storehouse this month as we need food and our mortgage pain, but have to keep our food storage and savings for when it really matters, those end times we are always hearing about?”

**https://kslnewsradio.com/1919566/church-humanitarian-aid-numbers/

***https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2014/10/are-we-not-all-beggars?lang=eng

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

There has been a recession in the US 13 times since the Great Depression.  If one manages to pull their attention away from the relative security of the States and look at all the counties there are Saints in, then add up all the recessions, depressions, wars, famines, and anything else that can restrict or even cut the supply chains (cough <pandemic> cough) as well as raise the number who are underemployed or unemployed, who knows how high the number is or how many more such disruptions that result in significant numbers of church members worldwide struggling financially (or wanting to help those who are in need) will come before we move into the main events of the Second Coming.  Life happens along the way to the Second Coming.  Our leaders are not idiots thinking Saints don’t need to be concerned about everyday disasters as well as the disasters to come.  Our faith is not just one that looks to the future, but is fully grounded in the present…which is why the Church is spending almost a billion a year in humanitarian and welfare aid these days as opposed to stockpiling all that food, clothing, water, wheelchairs, etc.**

If more than 3/4 million saints needed to ask for help through fast offerings in 2014***, imagine how many would have been using home storage before appealing to the bishop/branch president for help.  Somehow I don’t see that many telling the bishop, “hey, bishop, can we get an food order for the Bishops’ Storehouse this month as we need food and our mortgage pain, but have to keep our food storage and savings for when it really matters, those end times we are always hearing about?”

**https://kslnewsradio.com/1919566/church-humanitarian-aid-numbers/

***https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2014/10/are-we-not-all-beggars?lang=eng

I know many people including family members who have weathered tribulations by relying on their stored supplies. We were able to save enough money for a down payment on our first home by doing that for over a month.

[Rain]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I’ve spent considerable time in tiny temples in Louisville and Memphis.

I have a brother who was married in the Memphis temple and one in the St Louis.  It would be fun if you were there at the same time.  I would have to check the years for sure, but the St Louis was about 23-24 years ago and Memphis was about 20 years ago.  

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

There is no place for security guards and long guns, unless, of course they are under that sealed trap door in the men’s loo.

 

Lets get back to the CFRs.

 

[Calm]

72 hour kits have always been a major part of any instruction on home storage I have received at church.  In fact for a number of years in Canada, that was the primary focus.  72 hours stuffed in a backpack is not going to get us through very many of those last days.  So why bother focusing so much on that effort if really irrelevant to the purpose of home storage?

There is no logic in claiming leadership is focused primarily on end times when discussing home emergency storage.  It completely ignores how the Church has actually been responding day to day and year to year for the past hundred years with welfare programs and likely from the very beginnings of the Church given the practical nature of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and the intimate knowledge Saints had back then with deprivations and upheavals.  

Also what is being ignored by ‘Jerry’ is that if one prepares well for the immediate short and long term crises of normal life, one will be pretty much prepared for the end times whenever it happens.  Unfortunately the reverse cannot be said to be true…and we have unfortunately too much evidence of this given the Saints who were misled by Rowe and others into buying into her end times predictions who sold their homes and emptied their bank accounts and bought tents and other emergency supplies at highly inflated prices at times and who are now left to struggle because, guess what, the Big One didn’t hit, martial law was not declared, there was no Call Out, just the hassles of life as we have always known them to be (speaking as a people, not individuals).  But, boy, are they ready for when the end times hit…except for all those who had to sell their prep items at a massive loss in order to have a place to live.  I wonder how many chose to live out the summer (or was it winter? there were a couple of idiotic predictions “this is it!” that were later denied) in a white tent parked in the backyard of their kid’s house living off of freeze dried meals and dehydrated fruits (not really wondering at all, thinking it’s zero).

Our leaders know we need to be in decent shape when the end times hit to actually survive them, so why would they ignore all the bad stuff that they can see happening to Saints in the here and now and over a lifetime in favor of what might be needed for a day they don’t know the date of…

Edited August 29, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

37 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

 

 

 

Referring to Second Coming, but implies other reasons for storage…

And the current need for them is obvious in the “even more than we do now”…unless one irrationally thinks that means the Church is neglecting current needs because of future needs, ignoring the almost $1 billion spent two years ago and all the money previously spent over a century of welfar and humanitarian efforts.

[Chum]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I know many people including family members who have weathered tribulations by relying on their stored supplies. We were able to save enough money for a down payment on our first home by doing that for over a month.

Now that's a different era.

edit: I'm not saying you can't achieve amazing blessings thru utilizing food storage. Just noting that this one particular blessing fell off the list. For most of us, that'll be reality for a while, maybe foreverish.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Chum

[Nemesis]

He’s on a break,  hopefully that will get him in line with the board rules.  
 

-Nemesis

[Bernard Gui]

13 hours ago, Chum said:

Now that's a different era.

edit: I'm not saying you can't achieve amazing blessings thru utilizing food storage. Just noting that this one particular blessing fell off the list. For most of us, that'll be reality for a while, maybe foreverish.

Nevertheless, it happened. It was a very modest house in a lower middle-class neighborhood in a large city

Edited August 30, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

14 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

He’s on a break,  hopefully that will get him in line with the board rules.  
 

-Nemesis

I thought I heard footsteps approaching. 😬

Edited August 29, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

Sorry Jerry Atric wasn't able to provide the information for the CFR on guns in the temple, hopefully he can discuss again and not have it be an argument w/o specific proof. I've never heard of gun storage in a temple, but it could exist I guess and I do have very faithful LDS brother in laws and nephews that love to collect guns, even AR 15 ones. It might be a Utah thing, or now the whole USA thing.

I'm sure there's security and possibly a gun put somewhere in a safe if it's needed in case law enforcement hasn't reached the location in time of an emergency, which I welcome, just like other buildings. Never in my short time on the temple grounds have I even seen a security officer with a gun. Only men in hats, haha. Usually around conference time, any one see those men? They look similar to these:

Edited August 29, 2022 by Tacenda

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I've never heard of gun storage in a temple,

Because it doesn't exist.

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

but it could exist

But it doesn't

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I do have very faithful LDS brother in laws and nephews that love to collect guns, even AR 15 ones. It might be a Utah thing.

It's a guy thing.  I would imagine it's more prevalent in traditionally rural areas, but that may just be me stereotyping.

 

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm sure there's security

There is.  They carry radios.

9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

and possible a gun put somewhere in a safe

This a a possibility I could entertain, but I can't imagine a situation where it would be taken out of the safe.  If the situation were that bad I'd think church security would be more involved in evacuating people.

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Because it doesn't exist.

But it doesn't

It's a guy thing.  I would imagine it's more prevalent in traditionally rural areas, but that may just be me stereotyping.

 

There is.  They carry radios.

This a a possibility I could entertain, but I can't imagine a situation where it would be taken out of the safe.  If the situation were that bad I'd think church security would be more involved in evacuating people.

 

And there have been times when police couldn’t get inside, etc.  So what is the gun in the safe for if not that type of occasion and yet no report of any appearance of one on temple security.

I am certainly not opposed to it if that was the choice made.  I am rather surprised they don’t appear to have any in fact.  There would be no need for a room of guns at a temple if the security guys brought them from home.

But if a claim is baseless, let’s not pretend otherwise whether it’s good, bad, or ugly.

[ksfisher]

56 minutes ago, Calm said:

And there have been times when police couldn’t get inside, etc.  So what is the gun in the safe for if not that type of occasion and yet no report of any appearance of one on temple security.

I am certainly not opposed to it if that was the choice made.  I am rather surprised they don’t appear to have any in fact.  There would be no need for a room of guns at a temple if the security guys brought them from home.

But if a claim is baseless, let’s not pretend otherwise whether it’s good, bad, or ugly.

If there was a gun in a safe it would not actually be in the temple, but a nearby security/office/maintenance building. 

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Sorry Jerry Atric wasn't able to provide the information for the CFR on guns in the temple, hopefully he can discuss again and not have it be an argument w/o specific proof. I've never heard of gun storage in a temple, but it could exist I guess and I do have very faithful LDS brother in laws and nephews that love to collect guns, even AR 15 ones. It might be a Utah thing, or now the whole USA thing.

I'm sure there's security and possibly a gun put somewhere in a safe if it's needed in case law enforcement hasn't reached the location in time of an emergency, which I welcome, just like other buildings. Never in my short time on the temple grounds have I even seen a security officer with a gun. Only men in hats, haha. Usually around conference time, any one see those men? They look similar to these:

They actually carry machine guns under their hats. But they are robots too, which means they can also carry weapons and explosives in their body cavities.

Everyone knows that

And fyi lotsa rifles are painted black to make them look like AR 15s to those who don't know about guns.

  Makes 'em sell better. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/abjELHQiKU8uSNwt6

Edited August 29, 2022 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

Duplicate

Edited August 29, 2022 by mfbukowski

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, ksfisher said:

If there was a gun in a safe it would not actually be in the temple, but a nearby security/office/maintenance building. 

Gun in a safe is useful only if the operator is always very close by.

[Bernard Gui]

I wish

1. every church/business, school, government office would adopt the fast offering program

2. the government would encourage home storage and living debt free

3. Would sell a stamp like the PTSD stamp that costs a few pennies more than a regular Forever Stamp, the overcharge being used to help food banks

4. Santa Claus came every quarter (to my house)

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

They actually carry machine guns under their hats. But they are robots too, which means they can also carry weapons and explosives in their body cavities.

Everyone knows that

And fyi lotsa rifles are painted black to make them look like AR 15s to those who don't know about guns.

  Makes 'em sell better. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/abjELHQiKU8uSNwt6

They look really scary, but any firearm is lethal.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Bernard Gui