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Penalties for not being vaccinated?


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30 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Don’t have to sign anymore. Now the Bishopric just does interview and reports it digitally. Then the Stake Presidency marks it off as well digitally and gives the recommend.

 

29 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Very true, but this was before that change.  It was 3 1/2 years ago.

 

28 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Oh, never mind.

Dang! :(  I need to get my recommend renewed!  I slack off for a few months and everything changes! :huh: :unsure:   (I wonder, since I am a slacker, how hard it will be to get my recommend renewed: I can answer "Yes," (or "No," as the case may be) though, to all of the questions (including being a full tithe-payer) except the one about "earnestly striving to do [my] duty ..."  I'll just have to say, "[Ahem!]  Well, going forward ..."  The Bishop probably'll say, "No problem, but I do need to see a track record.  Come back in five years, and if you haven't missed a meeting and have volunteered for every possible assignment, then I'll sign it!!"  :huh: :unknw:)

Ah, COVID-19 and Monkeypox, and other highly-transmissible and potentially-dangerous maladies ad infinitum (What's next?!  Good grief!) we love thee!

Edited by Kenngo1969
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1 minute ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Ah, COVID-19 and Monkeypox, and other highly-transmissible and potentially-dangerous maladies ad infinitum (What's next?!  Good grief!) we love thee!

With climate change shifting the biosphere in so many ways we would be ridiculously fortunate if these are the last outbreaks we see in the next few decades.

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Just now, The Nehor said:

With climate change shifting the biosphere in so many ways we would be ridiculously fortunate if these are the last outbreaks we see in the next few decades.

Bite your tongue! :P 

(I fear you may have a point, though.)

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16 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

Dang! :(  I need to get my recommend renewed!  I slack off for a few months and everything changes! :huh: :unsure:   (I wonder, since I am a slacker, how hard it will be to get my recommend renewed: I can answer "Yes," (or "No," as the case may be) though, to all of the questions (including being a full tithe-payer) except the one about "earnestly striving to do [my] duty ..."  I'll just have to say, "[Ahem!]  Well, going forward ..."  The Bishop probably'll say, "No problem, but I do need to see a track record.  Come back in five years, and if you haven't missed a meeting and have volunteered for every possible assignment, then I'll sign it!!"  :huh: :unknw:)

Ah, COVID-19 and Monkeypox, and other highly-transmissible and potentially-dangerous maladies ad infinitum (What's next?!  Good grief!) we love thee!

Just go in and talk to the bishop and I would bet that you will be pleasantly surprised.  Also, they revamped some of the questions a while ago so maybe check those out so you can see exactly what you'll be asked about. :)

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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Just go in and talk to the bishop and I would bet that you will be pleasantly surprised.  Also, they revamped some of the questions a while ago so maybe check those out so you can see exactly what you'll be asked about. :)

I know about the new questions.  Perhaps I erred in including something from the "old" standards, but it wasn't intentional. ;)  Thanks for the heads-up! :D 

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18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

They are trying to fight the disease. The worry is that if it becomes endemic we may have to vaccinate people but we are nowhere near that point yet. We already have a vaccine and it is being offered to those most at risk (men who have sex with men, primarily gay and bisexual guys). It doesn’t spread sexually though or at least not just sexually. It requires sustained close quarters contact to transmit. Generally it transmits through skin lesions or oral exchange of fluids (kissing) and it might be transmitted sexually but last I heard the jury was out on that.

States of emergency have been declared in some states but that is more to track the disease and treat those who get it. There won’t be lockdowns unless the nature of the disease changes on a major level. This is very unlikely. Unless you have a Grindr account it shouldn’t have any impact.

The name is unfortunate but it wasn’t originally racist. It was first identified in lab monkeys.

The last US outbreak was confined almost entirely to people who took care of prairie dogs that had the disease.

Yes, I know.

Do you know if vaccination against it actually works, as opposed to Covid vaxx?

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45 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  Stuff like this always shouts, absolutely SCREAMS, for the other side of the story to be told. 

"No, brother crackpot, as I told you clearly at the end of our interview, my declining to sign your recommend had nothing to do with your vaccine status.   As I explained to you numerous times, I am unable to sign the recommend of a member who [refuses to pay tithing because fiat currency is of the devil] / [refuses to abstain from using fast Sunday as an opportunity to give a 20 minute sermon on Rush Limbaugh] / [keeps getting arrested at other faiths' churches for streaking through the congregation nude]." 

[I'm not casting aspersions on @Bernard Gui or his relatives.  Just saying that for every bizarre claim that I've personally been in the know about, it's always been accompanied by a sane other side that can't be shared with folks because the church respects privacy.]

Let the man talk in Fast Sunday. With Rush Limbaugh dead this is pretty impressive if he is getting updated information.

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On 8/4/2022 at 1:22 AM, The Nehor said:

Have you stopped beating your dead horse?

No, I want to make perfectly sure that it's dead. 😄 

But I was actually asking if you knew something I don't about the vaccine for monkeypox. Because I literally have not read up on it at all, and have been ignoring news outlets on the subject, and have no idea if it's any good or not (i.e. prevents acquiring the disease). I was just going to take your word for it. I thought you might know something. If you just want to make snarky responses, that's OK, but I was asking in all seriousness.

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1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

No, I want to make perfectly sure that it's dead. 😄 

But I was actually asking if you knew something I don't about the vaccine for monkeypox. Because I literally have not read up on it at all, and have been ignoring news outlets on the subject, and have no idea if it's any good or not (i.e. prevents acquiring the disease). I was just going to take your word for it. I thought you might know something. If you just want to make snarky responses, that's OK, but I was asking in all seriousness.

Yeah, the seriousness of your question was definitely made clear by the swipe at Covid vaccines.

The monkeypox vaccine being distributed does work and as a bonus also provides resistance to smallpox. It is just taking time to ramp up production. It is given to people in the military and has been for a few years now for smallpox protection. Like all vaccines it is not 100% effective but estimates are around 85% and it usually lessens symptoms in the rest.

There actually is a large reserve of an older vaccine that would protect against monkeypox but this vaccine can have extreme side effects. This reserve exists primarily as an emergency response stash in case of a smallpox biological weapon attack. It is usually only given to healthcare workers and those who deal with dangerous viruses in labs. If I remember right it gives broader protection to other diseases in the “pox family”. It also used to be given to people in the military. Unless something really weird happens this won’t be used.

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17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, the seriousness of your question was definitely made clear by the swipe at Covid vaccines.

I'm fully vaxxed and boosted. So is my wife. So are my brother and his wife. We all went masked like it was our religion. Yet we still came down with Covid. For this reason I feel that I have a right to to take a swipe at the Covid vaccine. Add to that the fact that my stepson and some of my wife's coworkers refused the vaccine while working in flipping hospitals, and yet have not been infected.

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The monkeypox vaccine being distributed does work and as a bonus also provides resistance to smallpox. It is just taking time to ramp up production. It is given to people in the military and has been for a few years now for smallpox protection. Like all vaccines it is not 100% effective but estimates are around 85% and it usually lessens symptoms in the rest.

There actually is a large reserve of an older vaccine that would protect against monkeypox but this vaccine can have extreme side effects. This reserve exists primarily as an emergency response stash in case of a smallpox biological weapon attack. It is usually only given to healthcare workers and those who deal with dangerous viruses in labs. If I remember right it gives broader protection to other diseases in the “pox family”. It also used to be given to people in the military. Unless something really weird happens this won’t be used.

Thanks for that.

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12 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I'm fully vaxxed and boosted. So is my wife. So are my brother and his wife. We all went masked like it was our religion. Yet we still came down with Covid. For this reason I feel that I have a right to to take a swipe at the Covid vaccine. Add to that the fact that my stepson and some of my wife's coworkers refused the vaccine while working in flipping hospitals, and yet have not been infected.

Thanks for that.

Surely you realize it is not about individuals, but about group statistics.  You don’t prove the lethalness of a disease by looking at a handful of those infected.  You look at large group results, the larger the better (if done well).  Looking at hospitalization rates of those vaccinated vs those not is going to provide better info than looking at what happened to your family and friends even if that is more emotionally meaningful for you.

A thought occurs to me…I wonder if long term workers in hospitals have a stronger immune system as those with weaker ones, who got infected frequently would tend to quit as getting sick all the time because of their job would not be pleasant.

Edited by Calm
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24 minutes ago, theguy said:

Furthermore, church leaders SHOULD be called out when they give in to temporal pressure. Especially when that pressure is emanating from the anti-christ himself.

I am not happy with the prophet taking the time to lampoon the will of God. "Racism" is discernment. Modern zealotry will have you think that discernment is evil.

NOPE. I can see you satan.

Can you say that you sustain the prophet?  Do you hold a temple recommend?  If so, why do you even want one?  It seems like the prophet is just another pawn of Satan in your eyes - with his position on racism, NAACP, nationalism, and vaccines.  
 

 

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11 hours ago, pogi said:

Can you say that you sustain the prophet?  Do you hold a temple recommend?  If so, why do you even want one?  It seems like the prophet is just another pawn of Satan in your eyes - with his position on racism, NAACP, nationalism, and vaccines.  
 

 

Looks like his post was removed. I wonder if he was blocked too?

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33 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Looks like his post was removed. I wonder if he was blocked too?

Oh ya.  You missed out!  He only lasted a few minutes before he was blocked and his dozens of rapid-fire hate filled far-right posts on different threads were taken down.

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1 hour ago, pogi said:

Oh ya.  You missed out!  He only lasted a few minutes before he was blocked and his dozens of rapid-fire hate filled far-right posts on different threads were taken down.

Seems like a real gem of a person.  I'm really hoping he was lying about being a member.  If not, I hope that someone somewhere discovers the real him and lets his leaders know.

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On 8/5/2022 at 8:41 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  Stuff like this always shouts, absolutely SCREAMS, for the other side of the story to be told. 

"No, brother crackpot, as I told you clearly at the end of our interview, my declining to sign your recommend had nothing to do with your vaccine status.   As I explained to you numerous times, I am unable to sign the recommend of a member who [refuses to pay tithing because fiat currency is of the devil] / [refuses to abstain from using fast Sunday as an opportunity to give a 20 minute sermon on Rush Limbaugh] / [keeps getting arrested at other faiths' churches for streaking through the congregation nude]." 

[I'm not casting aspersions on @Bernard Gui or his relatives.  Just saying that for every bizarre claim that I've personally been in the know about, it's always been accompanied by a sane other side that can't be shared with folks because the church respects privacy.]

I had a couple occasion when I was serving in a bishopric when I was accused of refusing to sign recommends.  Of course the people wouldn't say why, just that I wouldn't do it.

Edited by ksfisher
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15 hours ago, pogi said:

Can you say that you sustain the prophet?  Do you hold a temple recommend?  If so, why do you even want one?  It seems like the prophet is just another pawn of Satan in your eyes - with his position on racism, NAACP, nationalism, and vaccines.  
 

 

I actually know several active members that don’t support the prophet and the quorum of the twelve’s position when it comes to racism, immigration, environment, Covid, etc. Some of them are even leaders in wards/stakes. 

If you quote the church’s position they get very defensive or just say, don’t judge me and continue on pushing their ‘political’ viewpoints on these issues as if it was church doctrine.

 

Edited by Ragerunner
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4 hours ago, pogi said:

Oh ya.  You missed out!  He only lasted a few minutes before he was blocked and his dozens of rapid-fire hate filled far-right posts on different threads were taken down.

Quickest mod takedown I remember, lol

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On 8/8/2022 at 12:27 AM, Calm said:

Surely you realize it is not about individuals, but about group statistics.  You don’t prove the lethalness of a disease by looking at a handful of those infected.  You look at large group results, the larger the better (if done well).  Looking at hospitalization rates of those vaccinated vs those not is going to provide better info than looking at what happened to your family and friends even if that is more emotionally meaningful for you.

Yes, I do realize that it is about group statistics. 

What I question is whether those statistics should be used to turn society into apparent totalitarian states, like Trudeau has done in Canada. I remember how it was here in the UK, with the police out patrolling public spaces, citing people who dared to move around in the open air -- in the countryside -- threatening arrest and legal action. And forcing people to stay inside their homes, with grudging allowance to go outside in one's own backyard. What I also question is the cancelling by either government or social media of people who dare to question to efficacy of the vaccination or the actual danger of the pandemic itself. Thought control is evil, but it's been perfectly acceptable in the case of the orthodoxy of the pandemic.

On 8/8/2022 at 12:27 AM, Calm said:

A thought occurs to me…I wonder if long term workers in hospitals have a stronger immune system as those with weaker ones, who got infected frequently would tend to quit as getting sick all the time because of their job would not be pleasant.

Possibly. But my wife has been working in hospitals for many years as a nurse in the surgical theater. That has apparently not helped her -- and it appears that she caught it from me, who goes virtually nowhere, except church and the occasional shop.

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On 8/1/2022 at 3:28 PM, Bernard Gui said:

What think ye?

Thank you for posting this. 

Please post an update on what happens as a result: increased/decreased attendance, participation, leadership updates, etc?

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6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

What I question is whether those statistics should be used to turn society into apparent totalitarian states,

Which is a different question than whether or not the vaccine works and one I am so not interested in getting into at this point.

What you originally said, implying the Covid vaccines don’t work…

Quote

Do you know if vaccination against it actually works, as opposed to Covid vaxx?

 

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On 8/7/2022 at 4:52 AM, Stargazer said:

I'm fully vaxxed and boosted. So is my wife. So are my brother and his wife. We all went masked like it was our religion. Yet we still came down with Covid. For this reason I feel that I have a right to to take a swipe at the Covid vaccine. Add to that the fact that my stepson and some of my wife's coworkers refused the vaccine while working in flipping hospitals, and yet have not been infected.

Thanks for that.

It should be pretty clear by now to everybody that the vaccine wasn’t very effective at preventing people from catching and transmitting Covid.  If we judge the vaccine by that standard, it was a failure.  
 

But there’s good evidence that it kept lots of people out of the hospital and the morgue by preparing the immune system to fight Covid.  So if you caught Covid and didn’t end up dead or hospitalized,  you should be grateful.  
 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/06/covid-19-vaccines-saved-estimated-20-million-lives-1-year

Edited by Rivers
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