Penalties for not being vaccinated?

[Bernard Gui]

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choose not to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[jkwilliams]

10 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choosing to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

 

I'm guessing some local leaders will get called on the carpet. I work on an Air Force base, and my boss has been vehemently opposed to the military's mandate that employees either get the vaccine or be tested weekly (since lifted on a judge's issuance of an injunction). He has been blathering on about rights and freedoms and Chinese Communists (and gays and Mexicans and blacks), but he finally admitted to me that his real opposition is because he's afraid of needles. 🤣

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choosing to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

 

I don't think that will stand and I think that the bishop or stake president who is doing it is misguided.  Strict obedience to the prophet's requests or teachings has never, in and of itself, been necessary to be worthy to go to the temple.

 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, bluebell said:

I don't think that will stand and I think that the bishop or stake president who is doing it is misguided.  Strict obedience to the prophet's requests or teachings has never, in and of itself, been necessary to be worthy to go to the temple.

 

I've been in a lot of wards and stakes where leaders came up with insane local rules. Our bishop in Texas, for example, made the Relief Society room off-limits for any meetings other than Relief Society, as it was a sacred room consecrated for one purpose. Needless to say, it caused a problem when there wasn't enough classroom space during Sunday School. 

[Amulek]

14 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choosing to [not?] be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

I'm assuming you are missing a "not" in the above?

As for what I think, I suppose if they are likewise withholding temple recommends from women with multiple piercings, members who watch rated "R" movies, those who imbibe in energy drinks, etc. then I suppose they would at least be consistent in their zealotry, but it definitely sounds like they are taking things too far.

If I were them, I would run this up the chain of command and get my temple recommend renewed.

 

[Bernard Gui]

4 minutes ago, Amulek said:

I'm assuming you are missing a "not" in the above?

As for what I think, I suppose if they are likewise withholding temple recommends from women with multiple piercings, members who watch rated "R" movies, those who imbibe in energy drinks, etc. then I suppose they would at least be consistent in their zealotry, but it definitely sounds like they are taking things too far.

If I were them, I would run this up the chain of command and get my temple recommend renewed.

 

Thanks. I fixed it. 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choosing not to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

It is a terrible idea to do that.

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choosing not to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

 

I think it's a load of nonsense. You're not supposed to add additional conditions to the recommend questionnaire. 

An observation: the National Health Service in the United Kingdom employs a lot of health professionals. They set a deadline by which all NHS employees had to receive at least 1 vaccination or be terminated. So many NHS doctors and nurses (and others) refused to get the jab that a week or two before the deadline they had to cancel the plan. If they had gone through with it, health services in the entire country would have become a complete mess. Lots of people in the NHS think the "jab" is a load of hooey, either because they don't believe the vaxx have been tested adequately, or they don't believe it is truly effective while having negative potentials. My wife is a NHS nurse, and she got the "jab", as did I. Her son is a porter in an NHS hospital; he has refused the vaxx. At least one of my wife's fellow nurses has refused the vaxx as well. My wife and I both caught Covid last month. My stepson, despite working full time in a hospital, and living with us, hasn't gotten Covid, and neither has my wife's fellow nurse.

Monkeypox, anyone?

[The Nehor]

10 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Monkeypox, anyone?

I have it on good authority the primary method of transmission is gay orgies. I have decided to only attend every other month out of an abundance of caution.

[Fether]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I have it on good authority the primary method of transmission is gay orgies. I have decided to only attend every other month out of an abundance of caution.

We need a month long gay sex ban to slow the spread. And maybe even a whole year of things go like they did with Covid and masks

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choose not to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

 

If the person answered “no” to the question of sustaining the first presidency due to their position on vaccination…

If they can’t answer the question in the affirmative, why should they get one?   If it caused them to lose faith in our leaders - no recommend.  I have seen it happen. There are LOTS over on ldsfreedom foreign who have publicly testified of their loss of faith in the prophet, and even the church. 

It would be the same as someone saying they don’t sustain church leadership anymore because of their position on blacks and the priesthood, etc.

If however the person still sustains church leadership despite their admonishing on vaccines, then they should get a recommend.  
 

Edited August 1, 2022 by pogi

[JustAnAustralian]

removed

Edited August 1, 2022 by JustAnAustralian

[JustAnAustralian]

2 minutes ago, pogi said:

f the person answered “no” to the question of sustaining the first presidency due to their position on vaccination… If they can’t answer the question in the affirmative, why should they get one.  If it caused them to lose faith in our leaders, no recommend.  

It would be the same as someone saying they don’t sustain church leadership anymore because of their position on blacks and the priesthood, etc.

If however the person still sustains church leadership despite their admonishing on vaccines, then they should get a recommend.  

This is my feeling. The Temple Recommend instructions are  pretty clear about it

Quote

Priesthood leaders should not add any requirements to those that are outlined in the temple recommend book.

Quote

Sometimes members have questions during a temple recommend interview. The priesthood leader may explain basic gospel principles. He may also help members understand the temple recommend questions if needed. However, he should not present his personal beliefs, preferences, or interpretations as Church doctrine or policy.

 

[The Nehor]

23 minutes ago, Fether said:

We need a month long gay sex ban to slow the spread. And maybe even a whole year of things go like they did with Covid and masks

Easier just to put this guy in quarantine:

 

 

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choose not to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

 

IF this clearly and actually happened then it should be stopped.

People will make their own rules, sometimes stupid, at times and that should be stopped. Others who go see leaders will misunderstand what was done or mix things up etc.  So sometimes it is not the leader who has the problem.

Personally, in this case, I would have to ask the specific leader, "If your ward member isn't vaccinated, but is worthy in every other way, will you sign his or her reccomend?" before I will believe that someone is being penalized for not being vaccinated.

[The Nehor]

I am wondering who is provoking this. Leaders adding additional questions (believable, it happens in my stake)? Or members trying to provoke a showdown by asking if rejecting the counsel of the prophet means they aren’t sustaining the prophets or answering “no” to that question and explaining it that way (also very believable)?

Edit: Others said it better. took too long to post.

Edited August 1, 2022 by The Nehor

[JAHS]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choose not to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

 

The relative has got to be making this up or misunderstood something that he heard. I can see them asking members to wear masks to protect all the old temple workers who may be vulnerable but that would also not be a temple recommend requirement. 
The Sacramento temple site says. "Masks may be required depending on local government restrictions." Nothing about vaccinations.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

The relative has got to be making this up or misunderstood something that he heard. I can see them asking members to wear masks to protect all the old temple workers who may be vulnerable but that would also not be a temple recommend requirement. 
The Sacramento temple site says. "Masks may be required depending on local government restrictions." Nothing about vaccinations.

He says he knows such people in his stake and surrounding stakes. I suspect there is probably more to their stories than they are letting on..

[MustardSeed]

If it’s true, someone’s on an ego trip imo. Happens a lot I bet. 

[The Nehor]

15 hours ago, JAHS said:

The relative has got to be making this up or misunderstood something that he heard. I can see them asking members to wear masks to protect all the old temple workers who may be vulnerable but that would also not be a temple recommend requirement. 
The Sacramento temple site says. "Masks may be required depending on local government restrictions." Nothing about vaccinations.

I can believe that a Stake Presidency is asking additional Temple Recommend questions on their own authority. It is bad but it is completely believable.

I can also believe that individuals are protesting the prophet’s counsel of vaccines by intentionally contesting the questions in the interview to hold their own recommend hostage to make a point. Insert Willy Wonka meme: “No. Stop. Don’t.” This is also believable.

It could even be the Stake Presidency asking more searching questions and others using this as a pretext to intentionally contest the questions and both are true.

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I can believe that a Stake Presidency is asking additional Temple Recommend questions on their own authority. It is bad but it is completely believable.

I can also believe that individuals are protesting the prophet’s counsel of vaccines by intentionally contesting the questions in the interview to hold their own recommend hostage to make a point. Insert Willy Wonka meme: “No. Stop. Don’t.” This is also believable.

It could even be the Stake Presidency asking more searching questions and others using this as a pretext to intentionally contest the questions and both are true.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time local leaders went "beyond the mark." 

[CV75]

On 8/1/2022 at 3:28 PM, Bernard Gui said:

A relative has reported that in their area temple recommends are being withheld from people who choose not to be vaccinated for COVID on the grounds that they are not sustaining the First Presidency. What think ye?

 

Ask then for a CFR IRL

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Ask then for a CFR IRL

That would be unrealistic unless someone is taking audio recordings of temple recommend interviews….and that would be its own problem.

[Durangout]

IF the situation is as described, the member should go to the 70 and complain.  The Ward / Stake is waaaaay out of line here.  It could be true as our SP for a time was making up his own rules and line of questioning for missionaries before he would sign their papers.

Hopefully thereis more to the story than what the relative related to OP.

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, Durangout said:

IF the situation is as described, the member should go to the 70 and complain.  The Ward / Stake is waaaaay out of line here.  It could be true as our SP for a time was making up his own rules and line of questioning for missionaries before he would sign their papers.

Hopefully there is more to the story than what the relative related to OP.

What happened with your SP?