Live and die by the law

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, Ranch2727 said:

Let’s look at New Testament Acts 7:48

And so it was that in order to broaden their myopic perception of God and His redemptive plan for the world, that Stephen explained something that both Solomon and the prophets of old had understood for generations - that the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands; as scripture says: Was it not My hand which made all these things? for the heaven of heavens is God's throne and the earth is His footstool. What sort of house will you build for Me? or what can You make for My resting place?

But this was not what the blind leaders of Israel wanted to hear, and they charged Stephen of speaking against the Law and of seeking to destroy the Jewish Temple. They did not see that the entire history of the nation of Israel had been in opposition to God as they systematically broke His Laws and went against everything He had said - until they were finally dispersed.

The blind leaders of Israel did not realise that the Law had been given to point them to Christ and Stephen rightly accused them of being stiff-necked people, who were uncircumcised in heart and who resisted the Holy Spirit - for they had killed the Lord of glory and refused to be convicted of sin, righteousness and judgement.

Stephen was slowly unfolding God's redemption plan in order to bring them to repentance for the terrible travesty that had recently been carried out.. the execution of their Messiah King - the Lord Jesus Christ.

If the story had ended at this point it would have been a sad state of affairs.. but following in the footsteps of the Master we hear Stephen's gracious prayer of forgiveness being offered up to His God and Saviour - and falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord, do not hold this sin against them!' and having said this, Stephen fell asleep.

For 2000 years God has stayed his hand of judgement on a Christ-rejecting sinful world.. and God has been answering that prayer of Stephen - as down through the centuries.. Jew and Gentile alike have been offered the free gift of salvation by grace through faith in Christ and brought into the family of God.

Our God is far to big to be confined into houses made of stone or restricted to the finite imagination of fallen man. Let us seek to broaden our own perception of God and see Him for Who He is - for He is the eternal, infinite, holy God of love, justice and grace - Whose mercy is everlasting and Whose Word stands fast forever and ever - Who set aside His heavenly glory to reside on the earth for a season so that He could freely lay down His own precious life - so that we might live.. by faith in Him.

I understand that you can’t speak about what goes on in your temples made of stone and by man and I would respect that and not ask.  When the Bible speaks of salvation it does not include going to temple. It does not speak of his people needing the priesthood that was held by only a certain bloodline. It does speak of worshiping the ONE and only God, his son and love your neighbor.  God made it pretty simple but men always want to make things difficult.  I am a sinner and I do not deserve what Jesus did for us on the cross. The only thing I can do is trust Him and only Him.  Jesus is my Lord, my Savior, my final priest and prophet.  By Him everything was made on earth, he is from above we are from below. I’m thankful today for my pioneer ancestors and for my LDS up bringing. The church does many good things but the church, prophets and apostles cannot save people.  God bless all of you tonight that search for the answers in your own way.  God bless us today on this Pioneer Day and my God bless all that might read this. In Jesus name Amen!!

Amazed you are of the few that leave their LDS roots and not completely give up on the whole God/Jesus thing. That seems to be a happy place because those that extend to the not knowing or completely Atheist would hopefully at least have hope there is something out there. Or is Agnostic. But you are pretty rare, at least at what I see on ex mo boards etc.So good for you.

I read a comment by you on this thread that you say you and your wife aren't quite on the same wavelength with the beliefs or was it that she doesn't really get into the Bible that much? Well, if that is right, I understand because while active believing LDS I didn't get into a whole lot of scripture reading, I was a faithful reader of the Ensign/New Era and as a child and mother The Children's Friend. And raising a family and going each Sunday and serving in callings etc. When I'd pick up the BoM or Bible (rare) I'd read the same page over and over again. It was so hard because I couldn't focus, and it was so repetitive. In my faith crisis I ran out and bought a copy of the original 1930 Book of Mormon and it was in chapter form and that helped a lot to be able to read. The Bible I just read excerpts by way of listening to what others say, and it's got some stuff that I'm completely turned off of and cannot respect that it's from God or believe it. That's just not a God I would/could worship. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Tacenda

[Ranch2727]

Thanks for your comment’s.  I had heard that a great deal of people leave the church only to be lost and some Godless.  I’m little shocked that it happens and sad to think people don’t find rest in Christ.  As far as my wife, she is very LDS, teaches primary and very active within her ward. We have good conversations about God, wish I could say great but bless her heart she just goes by what others say and spends no time investigating.  She does not know the Bible at all and not much of the BOM, so at times it’s like I’m teaching her about her own doctrine.  We definitely see Christ as a completely different person, me not believing in the pre-existence and Jesus being satan‘s brother.  Her not really knowing about Joseph’s polygamy and his many visions. She had never heard of B Y’s Adam God theory, so I just show her and let her decide what she wants. (Plant seeds) She says she just knows the the church is the only true church on earth and all the other stuff they say that I have heard my entire life.  My response is always the same to her and others that say that on a regular basis. “If you know for sure then why do you follow it with you need to have faith” because things I know for a fact I don’t need faith, so why would you need faith if you know it’s true?  
       I was blessed when I left that I had good men around me that I could bounce questions off that didn’t judge me for my lack of knowledge. Also my dad, he was a bishop at the time I started searching and he said this. “Son I don’t care where you go to church just have faith in Christ”. I probably didn’t realize early in my walk with God at that time that my dad also followed a different Jesus than me.  Most LDS sons growing up in happy valley Utah (provo area) didn’t have a dad like mine, thank God I did. Hope you have a blessed day!!

[Tacenda]

30 minutes ago, Ranch2727 said:

Thanks for your comment’s.  I had heard that a great deal of people leave the church only to be lost and some Godless.  I’m little shocked that it happens and sad to think people don’t find rest in Christ.  As far as my wife, she is very LDS, teaches primary and very active within her ward. We have good conversations about God, wish I could say great but bless her heart she just goes by what others say and spends no time investigating.  She does not know the Bible at all and not much of the BOM, so at times it’s like I’m teaching her about her own doctrine.  We definitely see Christ as a completely different person, me not believing in the pre-existence and Jesus being satan‘s brother.  Her not really knowing about Joseph’s polygamy and his many visions. She had never heard of B Y’s Adam God theory, so I just show her and let her decide what she wants. (Plant seeds) She says she just knows the the church is the only true church on earth and all the other stuff they say that I have heard my entire life.  My response is always the same to her and others that say that on a regular basis. “If you know for sure then why do you follow it with you need to have faith” because things I know for a fact I don’t need faith, so why would you need faith if you know it’s true?  
       I was blessed when I left that I had good men around me that I could bounce questions off that didn’t judge me for my lack of knowledge. Also my dad, he was a bishop at the time I started searching and he said this. “Son I don’t care where you go to church just have faith in Christ”. I probably didn’t realize early in my walk with God at that time that my dad also followed a different Jesus than me.  Most LDS sons growing up in happy valley Utah (provo area) didn’t have a dad like mine, thank God I did. Hope you have a blessed day!!

Thanks for your response, I was a lot like your wife in my many years of being LDS, since the 60's. And my testimony was the same as your wife's testimony. I just knew it was true since the get go, even during a bout of being inactive in my late teens and early twenties. And I didn't care to do any research or read much of the church's history. Then I met my husband who returned from a mission but shortly before that I was called to team teach Primary and that started me back to activity. I still believed the church was true, but had some issues with some of the people in a ward that my family had just moved into. Not very nice situation and I was going into high school and had to leave my friends, and that started my road to a short stint of inactivity. But lo and behold that calling and repentance and then meeting my husband got me on the road again and my determination to be a good latter day saint! 

Then in my mid forties a website appeared without me looking for it, of JS's wives, that I had no idea of but vaguely remembered that he was commanded to live it, but the author of "The Work and the Glory" left that part out I believe, that he did live it. So I had felt like I was in a wreck where everything went into slow motion when I first saw that and then I got the book, "In Sacred Loneliness" with stories of his wives and all heck broke lose and I headed down the rabbit hole. I did attend some different churches on my own during all of that and still preferred the LDS church, my home. I stayed active and held a recommend through a few more years until my move to a new neighborhood and my husband and I told the bishop about my faith crisis. And this bishop acted like I was a doubt germ after that. I still watch church on Zoom though and often think of going to try another church and get some kind of feel for what I left behind.

I hope you and your wife have made it work being in a mixed faith marriage, it sounds like you have.

My husband's two brothers live in Highland and Pleasant Grove and we have a son in Provo.

[Ranch2727]

Born again 

God came to us and said, “you must be born again.” He went to the cross willing to take all mankind’s sin.  

So many people were in that place, men and women looked up at his face. 

God sent his only begotten son, Jesus in God, they are one.

Some wouldn’t believe he was real, they couldn’t believe he came to Fulfill.

Some search for God, but never see.

The truth the light and how easy he made it for us to be free.

He only asks  open our hearts, look to him and not be apart. 

When I die I hope I leave a path or just a trace, that others will know we are saved by his Love and his GRACE.

[Ranch2727]

I wrote that when it all came together for me, lots of study and of course prayer and sadness. Leaving the only thing I knew for 30 years and feeling like I would disappoint my family. Imagine feeling guilty for really loving and having a relationship with God, CRAZY.  Sadly I have heard your story too many times, where do you go? Who can you trust? That’s how I felt!!!

If I may? I really loved the teaching style of Pastor Chuck Smith, he started the Calvary Chapel movement and is beautiful.  There are podcasts with him teaching through the old and New Testament, I still listen to them. It’s also a way to have the Bible read to you.  I see you haven’t given up or you would not be talking to me, I’m nobody of real importance but I do love God.  So hang in there my new friend in Christ, let him be your light.  God bless you and your family.