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Are Saint expected to put in laws that support our faith?


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Are we, as faithful Latter-day Saint, expected to vote for laws that support our faith? If we live the principles, but vote in laws that don’t force others to live the principles, are we unfaithful?

for example:

- Is it unfaithful to vote against the prohibition of alcohol?

- Is it unfaithful to vote for legalization of weed?

- Is it unfaithful to vote in laws that allow early term abortions for everyone everywhere? 

- Is it unfaithful to oppose laws that make it illegal to have sex before marriage?

- Are we expected to seek to vote in a law that makes it illegal to not attend church on Sunday?


“there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.”

- Alma 30:7

Edited by Fether
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5 minutes ago, Fether said:

Are we, as faithful Latter-day Saint, expected to vote for laws that support our faith? If we live the principles, but vote in laws that don’t force others to love the principles, are we unfaithful?

for example:

- Is it unfaithful to vote against the prohibition of alcohol?

- Is it unfaithful to vote for legalization of weed?

- Is it unfaithful to vote in laws that allow early term abortions for everyone everywhere? 

- Is it unfaithful to oppose laws that make it illegal to have sex before marriage?

- Are we expected to seek to vote in a law that makes it illegal to not attend church on Sunday?


“there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.”

- Alma 30:7

This pretty much sums things up:

 

38.8.29

Political and Civic Activity

Church members are encouraged to participate in political and governmental affairs. In many countries, this may include:

  • Voting.

  • Joining or serving in political parties.

  • Providing financial support.

  • Communicating with party officials and candidates.

  • Participating in peaceful, legal protests.

  • Serving in elected or appointed offices in local and national government.

Members are also encouraged to participate in worthy causes to make their communities wholesome places to live and raise families.

In accordance with local laws, members are encouraged to register to vote and to study issues and candidates carefully. Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties. Latter-day Saints have a special obligation to seek out and uphold leaders who are honest, good, and wise (see Doctrine and Covenants 98:10).

The Church is neutral regarding political parties, political platforms, and candidates for political office. The Church does not endorse any political party or candidate. Nor does it advise members how to vote.

In exceptional cases, when moral issues or the Church’s practices are involved, the Church may take a position on political matters. In such cases, the Church may engage in political discourse to represent its views. Only the First Presidency can authorize:

  • Expressing the Church’s position on moral issues.

  • Committing the Church to support or oppose specific legislation.

  • Sharing the Church’s perspective on judicial matters.

Local Church leaders should not organize members to participate in political matters. Nor should leaders attempt to influence how members participate.

Church members who seek elected or appointed public office should not imply that they are endorsed by the Church or its leaders. Leaders and members should also avoid statements or conduct that might be interpreted as Church endorsement of any political party, platform, policy, or candidate.

Even when taking a position on a political matter, the Church does not ask elected officials to vote a certain way or to take a certain position. Members who are elected officials make their own decisions. These officials might not agree with one another or with a publicly stated Church position. They do not speak for the Church.

Political choices and affiliations should not be the subject of any teachings or advocating in Church settings. Leaders ensure that Church meetings and activities focus on the Savior and His gospel.

Members should not judge one another in political matters. Faithful Latter-day Saints can belong to a variety of political parties and vote for a variety of candidates. All should feel welcome in Church settings.

Church records, directories, and similar materials may not be used for political purposes.

Church facilities may not be used for political purposes. However, facilities may be used for voting or voter registration where there is not a reasonable alternative (see 35.5.2.3).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng#title_number178

Edited by ksfisher
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Nothing chaps my hide more than when someone uses God and their religion to campaign. Here is a local member of my state legislature (he lost his re-election in the primary thank goodness). This is so disrespectful in my eyes. It's hijacking the scriptures, the Church (he is LDS) and the Savior for your own gain.Since this has been happening for many years now the Church must be okay with it? Perhaps they agree with this type of rhetoric? I hope this is on-topic because it's what came to my mind immediately upon reading the OP.

 

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Edited by mtomm
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22 minutes ago, Fether said:

If we live the principles, but vote in laws that don’t force others to love the principles, are we unfaithful?

Because the answer to (every variation of) this question is no, I remain a member.

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3 minutes ago, mtomm said:

I think since this has been happening for many years now I think the Church must be okay with it? Perhaps they agree with this type of rhetoric?

I believe the Church's response is to revisit 38.8.29 and it's related principles in General Conference.  I think the twitwittery you exampled needs to directly threaten the public's perception of Church, before the Church will address it directly (eg:members performing ordinances for non-related holocaust victims).

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15 minutes ago, mtomm said:

Since this has been happening for many years now the Church must be okay with it? Perhaps they agree with this type of rhetoric?

 

37 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Church members who seek elected or appointed public office should not imply that they are endorsed by the Church or its leaders. Leaders and members should also avoid statements or conduct that might be interpreted as Church endorsement of any political party, platform, policy, or candidate.

 

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14 minutes ago, mtomm said:

Nothing chaps my hide more than when someone uses God and their religion to campaign.

At least the Church indirectly addresses this. The beyond-commonplace practice of trading law for campaign cash gets a complete pass. Worse, high ranking political members (of all parties) who spent their lives doing this - they get publicly lauded by the Church.

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48 minutes ago, Fether said:

vote in laws that don’t force others to love the principles

Do you mean live the principles?

Quote

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

Worship includes day to day living imo. As long as the community is able to support the way Saints worship, it seems like the Church doesn’t see a need to limit others’ behaviours by law more than that. The Church has not made an ongoing campaign to keep stores closed on Sunday in Utah last I heard, forcing everyone to have a ‘Sabbath’ experience.

 

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Fether said:

Are Saint expected to put in laws that support our faith?

Are we, as faithful Latter-day Saint, expected to vote for laws that support our faith?

I'm not sure what you mean by "support our faith."

1 hour ago, Fether said:

If we live the principles, but vote in laws that don’t force others to love the principles, are we unfaithful?

for example:

- Is it unfaithful to vote against the prohibition of alcohol?

I don't think so.  I think the Word of Wisdom is a nearly purely religious issue.  Although it can inform decisions relating to state regulation of alcohol, I don't think the WoW governs such things.  I think this is important for us as Latter-day Saints to keep in mind.  For many (most?) of our fellow Americans, there is nothing wrong, in a moral sense, with the consumption of alcohol.  The constraint we face arises from covenants unique to us.

1 hour ago, Fether said:

- Is it unfaithful to vote for legalization of weed?

Same as above.

1 hour ago, Fether said:

- Is it unfaithful to vote in laws that allow early term abortions for everyone everywhere? 

A few thoughts:

1. I think abortion is situated differently from matters of governmental regulation of the consumption of harmful/addictive substances because the consequences of abortion are A) extremely severe, and B) are inflicted on someone with no voice or say in the matter (the unborn child).  In other words, I think there is a very substantial "moral" component to abortion, such that our religious views should substantially inform/influence our individual political decisions.

2. I note that the foregoing pertains to "our individual political decisions."  There are times when a Latter-day Saint is functioning in representative, not individual, capacity.  And that representative capacity may allow, or even require, that Latter-day Saint to do things that he or she, as an individual, would not want to do.  For example, a judge who is a member of the Church may receive a petition from a concerned person - the father of an unborn child - for a temporary restraining order to prevent his girlfriend from getting an elective abortion.  The judge may feel, in his individual capacity, that electively aborting a child is a terrible thing.  However, the judge is not there to mete out his personal preferences, but is instead there to fairly and impartially administer the law.  If the law allows for an elective abortion, then the judge is bound by his oath of office to refuse the request for a TRO.  

The same can be said, to some extent, for politicians and political candidates.  See, e.g., the Church's regularly-published statement:

Quote

Relationships With Government

Elected officials who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions and may not necessarily be in agreement with one another or even with a publicly stated Church position. While the Church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other elected official, it recognizes that these officials still must make their own choices based on their best judgment and with consideration of the constituencies whom they were elected to represent.

Modern scriptural references to the role of government: Doctrine and Covenants, Section 134

3. I have a very hard time with using abortion as a "litmus test" for a political candidate.  When I consider voting a state legislator or governor, or a congressional or senatorial candidate, or a presidential candidate, I refuse to use abortion as an automatic "up" or "down" determination because politicians are called upon to do far more than enact or alter governmental regulation of abortion.  There will never be a situation in which a viable political candidate has views that perfectly align with my own preferences.  So I look for candidates who come as close as possible to those preferences.

4. As pertaining to political issues/topics about which reasonable minds can disagree, I'm generally not too keen to publicly declare a particular stance on a contested issue as being "faithful" or "unfaithful."  I usually instead limit such pronouncements to those within my stewardship (basically, me, myself and I, along with anyone who specifically asks me for my opinion).

1 hour ago, Fether said:

- Is it unfaithful to oppose laws that make it illegal to have sex before marriage?

See above.

1 hour ago, Fether said:

- Are we expected to seek to vote in a law that makes it illegal to not attend church on Sunday?

Who is it that is doing the "expecting" here?

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited by smac97
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As a Libertarian living in the USA, the land of liberty. I support the non-coercion principle. You should not use force or fraud except in response to force or fraud. You shouldn't create laws that are for people's own good but against their wills. You create criminals and black markets.

I'll probably sing a different tune if, say Zion is a city-state and bans certain substances. As an United States citizen I'm not for the drug war, but I believe in Constitutional Federalism, states can have their own laws. I only resist Socialism and Theocratic rule because I've not seen the ideal forms of these things, not that I'm against them in principle. If Jesus is king, how could I argue with him?

Edited by Pyreaux
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6 minutes ago, mtomm said:

So he skirts it by never mentioned the actual Church in his comments but it does come with a wink, wink.  Really chaps my hide. 

Based on what you shared I wouldn't vote for him.  He kind of comes off as a wacko.

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1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

Based on what you shared I wouldn't vote for him.  He kind of comes off as a wacko.

If someone needs to make an issue of their church membership for votes, they are not doing enough or doing the wrong thing to attract constituents to support them. 

Edited by Calm
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7 hours ago, Fether said:

Are we, as faithful Latter-day Saint, expected to vote for laws that support our faith? If we live the principles, but vote in laws that don’t force others to live the principles, are we unfaithful?

for example:

- Is it unfaithful to vote against the prohibition of alcohol?

- Is it unfaithful to vote for legalization of weed?

- Is it unfaithful to vote in laws that allow early term abortions for everyone everywhere? 

- Is it unfaithful to oppose laws that make it illegal to have sex before marriage?

- Are we expected to seek to vote in a law that makes it illegal to not attend church on Sunday?


“there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.”

- Alma 30:7

I tend to think no to all of the questions, but I'm not sure how that answer reconciles with the following temple recommend question, to be honest:

Quote

Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 

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I think we are supposed to support laws that uphold everyone's rights to religious freedom, and eliminate tyranny.   That is what is required to have a country where people can choose God and become like Him.

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4 hours ago, pogi said:

I tend to think no to all of the questions, but I'm not sure how that answer reconciles with the following temple recommend question, to be honest:

 

No, I support the prophet and say the US should join the League of Nations even if our Senator in Utah disagrees.

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