Neanderthal temple work

[MikeFoxtrot]

Is there any reason that Neanderthals shouldn’t require saving ordinances? Or are they more like dogs, where they axiomatically all go to heaven?

[InCognitus]

2 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

Is there any reason that Neanderthals shouldn’t require saving ordinances? Or are they more like dogs, where they axiomatically all go to heaven?

Two reasons:

1. No genealogical records  
2. More importantly, the children of God started later, with Adam and Eve.

[MikeFoxtrot]

Just now, InCognitus said:

Two reasons:

1. No genealogical records  
2. More importantly, the children of God started later, with Adam and Eve.

1. I’m assuming genealogical records will not be available or necessary for the majority of temple work before the great and dreadful deadline.

2. When was that?

[Chum]

7 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

Is there any reason that Neanderthals shouldn’t require saving ordinances? Or are they more like dogs, where they axiomatically all go to heaven?

Tough to take a name to the temple when no one has names.

[MikeFoxtrot]

6 minutes ago, Chum said:

Tough to take a name to the temple when no one has names.

Is the lack of Neanderthal census records  the only factor?

[JLHPROF]

14 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

Is there any reason that Neanderthals shouldn’t require saving ordinances? Or are they more like dogs, where they axiomatically all go to heaven?

Do chimpanzees?  Gorillas?  Bonobos?

God created humans in his image, his spirit children.

[Nofear]

Immortality and eternal life of our species may be God's work and glory, but that doesn't mean it is His only work and glory. I'm sure God has plans for them and it is very good. Whatever it is, we children of Adam and Eve don't seem to have a part in that plan.

[MikeFoxtrot]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Do chimpanzees?  Gorillas?  Bonobos?

God created humans in his image, his spirit children.

Neanderthals are as human as all of those things you listed are apes. 

[strappinglad]

Actually they lived in the land of " Nod the Neanderthal " , where Cain went to get his wife. 

I'm told that about 4% of our DNA is Neanderthal ,hence... 

[MikeFoxtrot]

1 minute ago, Nofear said:

Immortality and eternal life of our species may be God's work and glory, but that doesn't mean it is His only work and glory. I'm sure God has plans for them and it is very good. Whatever it is, we children of Adam and Eve don't seem to have a part in that plan.

Do you believe that Adam and Eve were the first ever humans?

[MikeFoxtrot]

1 minute ago, strappinglad said:

Actually they lived in the land of " Nod the Neanderthal " , where Cain went to get his wife. 

I'm told that about 4% of our DNA is Neanderthal ,hence... 

I’ve heard those numbers as well. They also cared for their sick and injured and there are strong indications that they practiced ceremonial burial. 

[Nofear]

2 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

Do you believe that Adam and Eve were the first ever humans?

I was deliberate in my use of the phrase "children of Adam and Eve" and not the word "humans". Whatever there was or wasn't, those two are they that I recognize as the first progenitors of my familial line.

[Pyreaux]

This has been explored by many who support the Pre-adamite Theory which is an embrace of Evolutionary Theory and Old Earth Theory with in a Biblical framework. Are Pre-Adamites humans or human-like animals before Adam? There are common tropes of ancient literature in which there are other "men" that are not refereed to as "men". For instance, "men" may not describe "humans" as a "man" means an "adam/adamite", specifically a descendant of Adam.

If these are creatures who looked like men, or otherwise suggests that, up until a few thousand years ago, mankind did not have the same kind of free will or consciousness as we know it. They did not have the knowledge of good and evil, and so, could neither sin or choose righteousness. Thus, even though they may have looked exactly like Adam, lived at the same time, and done many things in their ignorance, no one is damned in ignorance. We believe even animals can obtain salvation and achieve a degree of perfection.

Some adherents believe that non-Adamites are referred to in the Bible as "Chay"; There are three Hebrew words which are translated into English as "beast":

1. Behemah (a domesticated animal)
2. Beiyr (a wild undomesticated animal)
3. Chay (living creature)

The adherents say a Chay is and erroneously translated as "beast" as a Chay apparently a "breathing thinking entity"; because these Chays have hands, and have the ability to repent in sackcloth and ashes. In the time the Prophet Jonah was forced to go to Niveveh to tell them they would be destroyed: "But let man [adam (H120)] and beast [chay (H929)] be covered with sackcloth and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn from violence that is in their hands." (Jonah 3:  

How could a beast pray to God for forgiveness? Do beasts sin? Do they have hands to commit violence with?

When did all the hominids become entitled to salvation through Christ and the whole nine yards? Who knows. That would have been a line that God draws. God assigned every living thing their own proper times, functions, and rewards, as he has given us ours.

I am open to a Apocalyptic view of Genesis. That "animal" characters are regular "humans", and "human" characters are "priestly figures". The perhaps it does not describe the creation of the first man but the creation of the first priest, or the first of a new type of priest.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Pyreaux

[Chum]

16 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

Is the lack of Neanderthal census records  the only factor?

No one needs to be in a census to go to the temple. That just helps us lively people find those who are living-challenged.

[Pyreaux]

54 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

1. I’m assuming genealogical records will not be available or necessary for the majority of temple work before the great and dreadful deadline.

2. When was that?

I believe the assumption is that in the Millennial Reign of Christ will be a time when our insufficient records will be supplemented, especially with Christ in our midst overseeing the work.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Pyreaux

[MikeFoxtrot]

10 minutes ago, Nofear said:

I was deliberate in my use of the phrase "children of Adam and Eve" and not the word "humans". Whatever there was or wasn't, those two are they that I recognize as the first progenitors of my familial line.

So, only direct descendants of Adam need saving ordinances? What about the humans who existed before them?

[MikeFoxtrot]

 

9 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

I am open to a Apocalyptic view of Genesis. That "animal" characters are regular "humans", and "human" characters are "priestly figures". The perhaps it does not describe the creation of the first man but the creation of the first priest, or the first of a new type of priest.

Would humans who died before that time be eligible for the celestial kingdom?

[MikeFoxtrot]

12 minutes ago, Chum said:

No one needs to be in a census to go to the temple. That just helps us lively people find those who are living-challenged.

So, if there is no paper trail to lead the minds of the 4% Neanderthal children to their fathers, is temple work for these ancestors impossible?

[Calm]

33 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Whatever it is, we children of Adam and Eve don't seem to have a part in that plan.

At this time…who knows what may come.

[Pyreaux]

10 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

 

Would humans who died before that time be eligible for the celestial kingdom?

Certainly if they are indeed no less human than Adam. In which case, all are entitled to such an opportunity. That is universal accessibility, not obtainment. If Adam is the first royal priest, the other humans must be individually inducted into the priesthood to enter the Celestial Kingdom. The Celestrial Kingdom is the "Holy of Holies" of the Heavenly Temple in which God dwells, and the priesthood is the way in which men prepared themselves to enter the Holy of Holies and survive God's deadly radiant glory. It is not a very different process for all who wish to do so in heaven's Holy of Holies.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Pyreaux

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

I believe it is that the assumption is that in the Millennial Reign of Christ will be a time when our insufficient records will be supplemented, especially with Christ in our midst overseeing the work.

Quote

if there is no paper trail to lead the minds of the 4% Neanderthal children to their fathers, is temple work for these ancestors impossible?

Seems like all the gaps could easily be filled by a spirit coming and telling those living “I am ready and waiting.  This is my name.  These with me are my children and my children’s children, etc. who are ready as well.  We are the ancestors of ….”  A massive database set up could be created if actually needed to make a perfect pedigree chart of all the spirits who have existed if needed, but my guess is we will be able to experience the connection in another way, perhaps similar to instincts or the kids of exalted beings will be capable of holding that amount of information and accessing it.  For those groups whose lines end and have no further descendants, the connection would be made through their own ancestral line that does, just as we do uncles and aunts and cousins who die before having children now.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Calm

[MikeFoxtrot]

7 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Certainly if they are indeed no less human than Adam. In which case, all are entitled to such an opportunity. That is universal accessibility, not obtainment.

What makes something human?

[MikeFoxtrot]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Seems like all the gaps could easily be filled by a spirit coming and telling those living “I am ready and waiting.  This is my name.  These with me are my children and my children’s children who are ready as well.  We are the ancestors of ….”

Wouldn’t  Neanderthals be able to do this?

[rongo]

You don't have to reach back to Neanderthal, Cro Magnon, Denisovan, etc. for this "dilemma." Modern man during historic times (say, 4000 years ago) is in the exact same boat. For zillions of people, there is going to have to be revelation (direct, via angels, etc.) to do their temple work, because there isn't going to be any other way to know the names and other unique information for individuals. For those who believe that these people are all known to God, and that He will give us what is needed to do this (during the Millennium), this doesn't present a problem 

[rongo]

2 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

Wouldn’t  Neanderthals be able to do this?

For the record, Mike, although it seems that most want to tiptoe using "Before Adam" logic (i.e., only Adam and Eve and after matter, anything that came before is irrelevant, etc.), I believe that Adam and Eve were the first people. I believe that remains from the Neander Valley, etc. came after Adam and Eve. So, yes,in my view they will receive their ordinances.