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It's Official: SCOTUS Overturns Roe v. Wade


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1 hour ago, Calm said:

And when they don’t?  It does not inspire me that the legislatures appear to be creating more problems without ensuring first the infrastructure was in place to deal with the changes. 
 

Would it make sense for laws to be made that promoted the buying of cars while no bills were passed to pay for the roads to drive them on?

Should the court have given states a one year warning so they could prepare? How would that work? 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Miscarriage is not forcibly ending the life of the baby. Not even in the same ballpark.

If I gave the impression that miscarriages and forcibly-ended pregnancies are the same thing, that’s not what I intended.

That said, miscarriages and abortions share more features in common than abortions and baseball games, so maybe they are in similar ballparks. 

Edited by MikeFoxtrot
Typographical clarity
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Just now, MikeFoxtrot said:

If I have the impression that miscarriages and forcibly-ended pregnancies are the same thing, that’s not what I intended.

That said, miscarriages and abortions share more features in common than abortions and baseball games, so maybe they are in similar ballparks. 

If we had some ham we could have ham and eggs, but we don’t have any eggs. 

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2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Now that abortion laws are back in the states where they belong instead of being mandated by the court, the people in the states through their representatives can pass whatever protections they want for mothers and babies. For example, while some states have restrictions, the whole west coast is becoming abortion sanctuaries. If folks don’t like what is happening in their state, they can elect people who can pass the laws they prefer. 

Don't confuse people with the facts. It's more fun to riot.

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

And when they don’t?  It does not inspire me that the legislatures appear to be creating more problems without ensuring first the infrastructure was in place to deal with the changes. 
 

Would it make sense for laws to be made that promoted the buying of cars while no bills were passed to pay for the roads to drive them on?

This is sadly very normal but has been getting worse. Legislation is often badly crafted but there has been an exodus of many of the best people in Congress and in many states who were good at it leaving government.

This isn’t too far off:

 

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1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Miscarriage is not forcibly ending the life of the baby. Not even in the same ballpark.

Would god ever cause a miscarriage?

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Just now, The Nehor said:

I wish. This round of protests has been quite dull.

All the pictures I saw everyone had a smile on their face they had a great time protesting and rioting. 

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Just now, rodheadlee said:

All the pictures I saw everyone had a smile on their face they had a great time protesting and rioting. 

I worry that by your standards my ward’s Meet and Greet this evening was a riot. When we ran out of lemon bars it got a little ugly.

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19 minutes ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

Would god ever cause a miscarriage?

Depends on how you read the Bible I suppose:

Quote

 

16“ ‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“ ‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23“ ‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial e offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Depends on how you read the Bible I suppose:

 

You’ve sprung my trap before Bernard could step in it. I may as well log off

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25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I worry that by your standards my ward’s Meet and Greet this evening was a riot. When we ran out of lemon bars it got a little ugly.

Were they holding MAKE ABORTION LEGAL signs? Throwing stuff, setting things on fire?

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2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

No worries. We must have the money to send everyone to California who wants an abortion we just gave $200 billion away to the global infrastructure project. It must be nice to be rich.

We need the very wealthy to pay taxes like everyone else. 

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22 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Were they holding MAKE ABORTION LEGAL signs? Throwing stuff, setting things on fire?

Only the Ward Librarians but they have been doing that at every activity for the last decade for reasons no one understands.

 

In other riotous news Rudy Giuliani was brutally assaulted. The attacker is in custody. The former mayor reported that it felt like a bullet and that if he wasn’t in such great shape he could well have died.

Here is the video. Be warned it is graphic and contains extreme violence. Viewer discretion is advised.

 

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4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Well that's the thing, I think in such a situation we may feel very clearly that it is right to end the pregnancy. I know women who have felt like this, being completely committed to the interests of their unborn child.

I have no doubt.  And I know that all we can do is what we believe to be right.  I just doubt that we have any ability to actually know whether or it's right or not. It's the easier choice in many ways, and I don't think we can ignore that if we are talking completely about the ethics of it.

But it's never just ethics when real people are involved so I lead with compassion and am grateful that I don't have to judge.

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49 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Only the Ward Librarians but they have been doing that at every activity for the last decade for reasons no one understands.

 

In other riotous news Rudy Giuliani was brutally assaulted. The attacker is in custody. The former mayor reported that it felt like a bullet and that if he wasn’t in such great shape he could well have died.

Here is the video. Be warned it is graphic and contains extreme violence. Viewer discretion is advised.

 

At least he doesn’t elbow little girls. 

She must be a bit irritated because of her husband’s dui. 
 

I don’t think it does much for this thread to go *** for tat with unrelated political stories. I think most everything has been said here so I think I will bow out. No guarantees I won’t get sucked back in though. 

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2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Should the court have given states a one year warning so they could prepare? How would that work? 
 

 

I think states should have been working on support systems long past if sincere about dropping abortion rates, but they could have themselves said ‘we are not changing anything at this time until we have the infrastructure in place to minimize the disruption’.  And then work as sincerely and as hard as they could to get bills passed and support systems in place if they really want to lower abortions….because the things needed to replace abortions will lower abortions on their own as well. 

The research is already available and has been for a long time about what lowers abortion rates, imo.

But just saying ‘stop abortions or else’ is easy.  Actually doing something to lower the perceived need for them would take actual work. 

Edited by Calm
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30 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

At least he doesn’t elbow little girls. 

She must be a bit irritated because of her husband’s dui. 
 

I don’t think it does much for this thread to go *** for tat with unrelated political stories. I think most everything has been said here so I think I will bow out. No guarantees I won’t get sucked back in though. 

Good, the sooner Nancy is out of government the better. I didn’t mock her poetry reading earlier in the thread out of endearment.

Is that supposed to be a scandal though? Looks like she thought the picture would look better if the girl moved over an inch. There are much better reasons to tear her down. I don’t consider this a hit back at me. I don’t defend Nancy. She needs to retire. I don’t like Biden either. Most of the party is a gaggle of feckless idiots.

Edit: Nancy’s most recent obnoxious action was immediately soliciting donations and encouraging everyone to vote immediately after the Supreme Court decision. The mood on the Left towards this is not polite. It is along the lines of: “Thanks Nancy. Now do you think maybe you could actually do something now instead of asking for money and votes? Or could you just give up the Speaker position to anyone else who might have the will to do something beyond reciting poetry and singing hymns?”

Edited by The Nehor
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Error 

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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7 hours ago, pogi said:

If you think avoiding hardship that comes from ones personal choices by killing another is taking responsibility, it isn't.  There is no responsibility towards the life that one creates in aborting them when they are otherwise healthy.  No hardship (for the mother or baby) justifies killing another, especially without their consent.  I have seen some pretty down and out people, the lowest of the low, and their extreme hardship does not justify us in killing them.  It is not merciful.  Taking a life is not a humane way to end hardship.  Some may argue that assisted suicide is merciful in some cases, but that requires consent.  NO ONE should be able to make that choice for another. That is a violation of all that is right and sacred about human life.  

This sounds really ignorant. Hardship can cause total breakdown. Including total breakdown of health up to death death, abuse, and separation of parent/s from their children.

You're doing the math for others, and making assumptions about cost, when you don't have the information. And you don't have to live with the consequences.

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7 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

That some governments do this is without question. 
 

God’s laws may or may not be enshrined into secular law.  I’m just observing that people frequently ignore God’s preferences and admonitions in their personal decision making. 

How do you know they are? Even if they say "My body...?" Because ultimately their audience is other people who are trying to usurp government over their body. Their bodies certainly don't belong to other people or the state. 

Each one of us is the steward of our body. "My body, my choice" is a fair expression of ownership but also stewardship. Many of these women are defending a woman's right to obey God's will when it comes to their stewardship of their bodies.

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6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

The people through their elected representatives have the privilege and duty to provide remedies and protections for such things. 
 

Challenges and responsibilities. Men should especially be held accountable for their actions.

When the people and state fail to support women and any vulnerable people, as they have and continue to fail to do, what option does a a person have? Their stuck with what they can manage alone.

 

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4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I have no doubt.  And I know that all we can do is what we believe to be right.  I just doubt that we have any ability to actually know whether or it's right or not. It's the easier choice in many ways, and I don't think we can ignore that if we are talking completely about the ethics of it.

But it's never just ethics when real people are involved so I lead with compassion and am grateful that I don't have to judge.

By that token we can't be sure about the rightness of anything. But we may be as sure about it or more sure about it as we are about anything else we think we know.

There can be clear moments like that in life. But less clear ones too. Yet it still crucial to respect that it's *their* moment in their life. We can offer grace and support which may improve the chances of clarity and courage in the face of their challenges.

Edited by Meadowchik
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